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  Discussion on My concern over two supplements that I give my horse.
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New Member:
Bnhm

Posted on Saturday, Jan 4, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

I am giving my horse two supplements a day. One is Platinum Performance, which is listed " for veterinary use only" and the other os GlucoMax a glucosamine sulfate product. The Platinum Performance is described for "equine wellmness and performance" It is mostly flax seed and flax oil, but does have horse tail as an ingredient. You have mentioned flax seed and now I am concerned about giving it. I give the recommended two scoops per day. I got it through their web site.
thanks,
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 8:00 am:

Hello Bess and welcome to The Advisor. For our complete thoughts on flax in the horses diet see » Care for Horses » Nutrition » Fats and Oils in the Diet of Horses. IF this is formulated for the diet and used in small quanitites it is unlikely to be harmful to anything but your pocketbook.

Tail hair? What in the world could that be used for as an indigestible protein? Unless it is used to artifically elevate the labeled protein contents of the supplement. I have 10 horses of my own and responsible for hundreds that are healthy and perform very well without supplementation of any kind.
DrO
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 10:56 am:

Platinum Performance is an excellent, well-designed supplement created by Dr. Doug Herthel, head of Alamo Pintado clinic, which specialises in equine care.

It does not contain tail hair.
it DOES contain a good mineral spectrum, esp. copper and a few others which are very useful for pregnant mares, among others.

I have used it for years and am very pleased with the condition, bloom, and bone it puts on my horses and young stock.

OTOH--no supplement should be overdone without a decent hay analysis.

PP is available to anyone, it certainly does not require a veterionary presc ription.

As for the joint supplement--here is whwere label-reading is important, because some of them CAN contain stuff not recommended for pregnant mares/foal development.

Almost all of such supplements have, so far as I know, removed any such substances (I think Devil's Claw was one of them).

cheers,
Member:
Bonita

Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 11:21 am:

Aaacckk! "Horsetail" is NOT hair from a horse's tail!!! It is an herb used in many homeopathic preparations for both humans & animals. Goodness Dr. O! Following is info from one of the many websites mentioning this plant:

"A quantity of silica is deposited in the stems, especially in the epidermis or outer skin. In one species, E. hyemale (Linn.), the epidermis contains so much silica that bunches of the stem have been sold for polishing metal and used to be imported from Holland for the purpose, hence the popular name of Dutch Rushes. It is also called Scouring Rush, and by old writers Shavegrass, and was formerly much used by white smiths and cabinet-makers. Gerard tells us that in his time it was employed for scouring pewter and wooden kitchen utensils, and thence called Pewterwort, and that fletchers and combmakers rubbed and polished their work with it, and long after his day, the dairymaids of the northern counties of England used it for scouring their milk-pails. Linnaeus tells us that this species, among others, forms excellent food for horses in some parts of Sweden, but that cows are apt to lose their teeth by feeding on it and to be afflicted with diarrhoea. As a matter of fact, cattle, in this country, usually instinctively avoid these plants and would probably only eat them in the absence of better fodder.

The young shoots of the larger species of Horsetail, especially E. maximum (Lamk.) the E. fluviatile of Linnaeus - were formerly said to be eaten, dressed like asparagus, or fried with flour and butter. It is recorded that the poorer classes among the Romans occasionally ate them as a vegetable, but they are neither palatable nor very nutritious. Linnaeus stated that the reindeer, who refuses ordinary hay, will eat this kind of Horsetail, which is about 3 feet high and juicy, and that it is cut as fodder in the north of Sweden for cows, with a view to increasing their milk, but that horses will not touch it.

Several of the species have been used medicinally, and the older herbalists considered them useful vulneraries, and recommended them for consumption and dysentery. The FIELD HORSETAIL (E. arvense), the species of British Horsetail most commonly met with, is the one now generally collected and sold for medicinal purposes."

Bonnie (who used to do herbal landscaping)

Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 9:50 pm:

Wow, Bonnie! That's a real education in horsetail! Neat to read about the history of the plant.

But: it still doesn't sound like something our horses particularly need....
Member:
Bonita

Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

Probably not! I seem to remember way back when the "herbal revolution" was at its peak, horsetail was used both orally & as a "soak", supposedly to help strengthen thin, brittle fingernails. In fact, aside from seeing it used to scour pots at a few colonial reenactments, that's the only other time I've seen it used for anything. This is the first I've heard of it being added to a horse supplement.
Member:
Redwood

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 12:36 am:

Yikes! Horsetail is listed as a toxic plant. From Lon Lewis, "Equine Clinical Nutrition: Feeding and Care," "the primary toxic effects appear to be related to horsetail's antithiamin properties." Homeopathic amounts would be too small to cause poisoning, but why would they put it in a horse supplement? It grows locally in moist areas. I don't let my donkeys eat it, but they love it.

My vet sells Platinum Plus, and many local horse owners recommend it.

Nancy
Member:
Bnhm

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 2:20 am:

Thanks to you all for the information. You have given me a lot to think about. I appreciate the help. Bess
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 4:41 am:

Oh, I see, I must not have had enough coffee when I read her first post. Thanks for the help. On the other hand it would not surprise me to see horse tail hair in a supplement.

The rest is pretty well covered by the other posts. And we have covered the important difference between herbs and homeopathy preparations as pharmocological agents in other posts.
DrO
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 9:37 am:


Horsetail has many varieties and several properties. It is high in silica and many varieties are considered useful in repairing damage to skin and nails, as well as being a booster to the immune system.

I am not a 'herbologist' nor associated with Platinum Performance.

Above, I was simply quoting the results of a Google search.

As for PP, it was recommended to me by my own vet, and although I was grudging at first--Im not a huge fan of general supplementation--the results proved visible and obvious.

Horses have better condition, a hard bloom to their coats, and were energetic without being 'hotter'.

I have used it for years for broodmares as well as sporthorse stock of all ages and am quite pleased.

In any case, broodmares should have some copper and a few other trace minerals in their diet, whether PP is the source or some other reputable supplement.

cheers,
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 9:41 am:

Oops..didnt mean to send that again.

Sorry list and Dr O

...must..go...drink...coffee....
Member:
Bnhm

Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 7:29 pm:

Thanks, Lita. I have noticed that my horse is a lot calmer when approaching a jump. As far as coat and hooves they are far better than before. Hopefully this is not me just putting a halo on the pp. Bess
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003 - 8:13 am:

I had a little time to do some research on horsetail (Equisetum arvense). According to the references I have on herbology this medication has been recommended for well everything from profuse bleeding during menstration to bone fractures to tuberculosis. There literally seems to be no disease this herb has not been recommended for including baldness. None of the above claimed medical benefits has been documented (pg 831 PDR for Herbal Medicines).

It does have a number of pharmocologically active compound and toxins (including nicotine and other alkaloids) and may be mildly diuretic (the caffeic acid?).

At this time rational indications seem to be:
Urinary tract conditions
Wounds

These indications are based on possible on the possible pharmocology and not testing and urinary conditons are also a contraindication do to the toxic principles. There was one piece of research where there was thought to be a bendfit for the treatment of kidney stones but the effects were slight and more effective, cheaper, safer products are already on the market (beer?).

Guys if you want to spend your hard earned money on such nonsense, all I can say is I have known at least several thousand horses that were in tip top shape without this herb in their diet.

If you are seeing a real benefit you are probably addressing some nutrient deficiency. If it is copper, a copper enriched salt block (see the article on minerals in the diet for more on this) would be a lot cheaper, work better and maybe most important, be less toxic.

I do think increased fat in the diet does have a benefit and one of them does seem to be a calmer horse. Flax and linseed oil can accomplish this but needs more attention than other vegetable oils, see the article on fats for more on this.
DrO
Member:
Bnhm

Posted on Monday, Feb 17, 2003 - 5:12 pm:

Thanks, Dr. O. I have been away for a few weeks and didn't check this site. I appreciate your information on the horsetail research. And decided against the Platinum Performance supplement. And I will add a mineral salt block in his stall. Once again, thanks. Bess
Member:
Garnet

Posted on Monday, Feb 17, 2003 - 11:32 pm:

Silicon was the subject of two studies done recenty at the U of WI. Equus December 2002 reported a summary of the two studies. One was with TB broodmares and their foals and the other racing TBs. The supplement source was Zeolite, a soft rock that contains Silicon, only the report gave a proprietary name I believe. Sorry don't have it in front of me.

Silicon is a trace mineral, there is no established RDA, which is not unusual for trace minerals. Trace minerals are needed in such small amounts and occur in the body in very low concentations that it has only been in the last twenty or so years that we have had the instrumentation to measure them. Studies are not well funded because they are not patentable for the most part. Zinc comes to mind. Until the late 70's science could not study it but when the instrumentation and then the funding came along it began turning up in every multi vitamin and we started hearing about its benefits from many sources.

It is thought that Si facilitates the absorption and utilization of other minerals, particularly Magnesium and Calcium, hence you need less Mg and Ca in supplement form if intaking adequate Si. Also plant based source of all minerals are superior in absorption, possibly due to the matrix in which they occur. Most minerals and vitamins are in a homeostatic balance in the body. Eg the Calcium to Phosphorous ratio in feed needs to be 1.2 to 2:1. Calcium to Magnesium 2:1 or more recently 1:1.

Horse Tail herb is a source of Silicon, it is also toxic at SOME stages of growth, not all. When baled inadvertently with hay and consumed in sufficient quantity it has had toxic and lethal effects in horses.

As a trace mineral source it is chancey but if the plant is harverst at its non-toxic stage by a knowledable person (herbalist, pharmacognosist, wildcrafter) then it is a useful source of Si.

A safer source of Si is oat and wheat bran, possibly sea meal. For humans onion are an excellent source, they will make fingernails stronger and grow faster. Horses should not eat onions though, but if you want to prove it to yourself try eating lots and lots of onions, particulary raw, oat bran or a Silicon supplement. Homeopathic Silicea is not suggested as a source although it said to facilitate absorption and utilization from dietary or supplement sources. (Caveat: Not everyone feels that homeopathics are efficacious, but adequate research has yet to be done to make an intelligent judgement.)

Oh and the mineral salt block, with a salt limiter in it is not an adequate source of minerals since the horse will not consume past a certain amount due to the salt. A better choice would be Moorman's Loose Minerals or Quad Mineral Block formulated for horses (most are formulate for cows and have the wrong Phosphorous content for horses). Buckeye also makes a good horse formulated mineral block and loose minerals, one for alfalfa hay and one for use with grass hay.
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Posted on Thursday, Feb 20, 2003 - 9:23 am:

Hello Garnet,
For an intelligent rebuttal of Homeopathy see » Equine Diseases » Eye Diseases » Anterior Uveitis, Recurrent Uveitis, Periodic Opthalmia, and Moonblindness » Uveitits: Allopathic, Homeopathic & Herbal Treatments.

Garnet is correct, silicon is a required trace mineral for which the dietary amount required is unknown. There are no diseases currently known due to a deficiency of dietary silicon, though experimental deprivation in rats has shown impaired bone formation and decreased wound healing. This problem was not do to decrease Ca-P absorption but thought to be due to aberrations in proline metabolism. There have been some interesting studies recently on silicon and horses and there results can be found at: Care for Horses » Nutrition » Minerals and Nutrition.
DrO
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