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Discussion on Preg mare on Strongid C , switch to paste?
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Member:
Pulley
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Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2003 - 7:13 pm:
Hi Dr. O
My mare who is 5 months pregnant now has been on strongid C for a couple of years. I wanted to take her off of it and just paste worm. I read the recommendations for paste worming and purchased the Ivermectin and looked for a wormer with praziquantel in it. I could not find it. So I just gave her the ivermectin yesterday. Now I am reading that the equimax would have done the trick for both effective ingredients. OOPS! So my question is, is there a wormer with just the praziquantel in it? Or can I worm her with the equimax, which would in affect double dose her with ivermectin? Thanks for your time.
Lil
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003 - 9:43 am:
Not labeled for horses Lillian. Considering that your mare has been protected from tapes by the Strongid C and that the praziquantel containing products are not yet labeled for pregnancy (it is thought to be safe) I would just continue the ivermectin deworming until after the foal is born then you can deworm the mare. Never hurts to be careful.
DrO
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003 - 10:15 am:
DR O
I just recieved ads from both Valley Vet and American Livestock supply stating Eqimax was approved for pregnant mares if this is incorrect please advise. I was planning on worming my bred mares with Equimax Friday,14 Nov 2003.
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Member:
Pulley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003 - 12:54 pm:
Thank you Dr. O. I will follow the worming regime in the deworming schedule - Jan. Ivermectin & Quest - Mar. Ivermectin. She is due to foal late April so should I not give her the recomended April dose of Quest till after she foals? Cheez Whiz, this can be so confusing. Thank you
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003 - 1:43 pm:
I personally will never use Quest due to some horses having fatal reaction from one use.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2003 - 7:41 am:
Thanks for the update Janette, all the literature I have in front of me, admitedly a month old now, does not have that label yet. All should read the box of the product they are using if in doubt. I might still wait a year before I used it on pregnant mares but as we state above and in our article it is believed to be safe in pregnant horses. Lillian, I presume the "ivermectin & Quest" statement above you meant "ivermectin & praziquantel".
Janette, if that is your criterion then you cannot also use:- ivermectin
- strongid
- any vaccine
- any antibiotic
- or even any horse feed
in fact there is not one thing you can state that has ever been used on a horse with any regularity that did not have a horse die in the following 24 hours. There have been some toxic reactions (horses given more than a 5 times overdose) and there have been induced enteritis/colitis following deworming heavily parasitized animals. But we saw the same thing when ivermectin was first introduced.
Considering the danger of parasites and that Quest is the only other product than ivermectin that is truly effective at controlling worms and that resistance to ivermectin will certainly occur with time: your position puts your horses at increased risk for disease from parasites.
DrO
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 - 3:52 pm:
My criterion is based on horses that had no reaction to the other products you listed but died within 24 hrs of quest use.
All of the horses had been previously wormed with one or all of the other products and had no reaction to them.
These horses had always been on a consistent worming program but like many owners they tried the new product because of a discount price to try it.
NONE of them were weak or sensitive horses that were prone to allergic reactions. The people I am talking about lost 12 horses in 24 hrs! Their entire trail riding string of horses.!
This is why I feel so strongly about Quest.
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 - 3:55 pm:
Thank You Dr O I will hold off until You have the same information they are saying. I came so close to using it hair on neck still standing on end!
Not worth the risk to try it till proven OK for Pregnant mares.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 - 6:48 pm:
Your argument does not support Quest as the factor Janette, in fact just the opposite! Do we both agree whatever did this was extremely toxic? If your answer is yes, consider this: if Quest were this toxic don't you think one of the thousands of doses I have given personally (almost a hundred to my own horses over the last 3 years) would have resulted in at least one sick horse? The real problem is that something happened to those horses and they still do not know what, so it may happen again.
Concerning the praziquantel use in pregnant mares, I once heard these wise words, "Unless necessary, don't be the first to try a new treatment....or the last".
DrO
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 11:31 am:
Dr O,
I know in my mind you are correct, I have grown to trust your advice and the advice of many members here.
But that day watching each horse DrOp and then die was horrifying and as far as i was told it was a reaction to the Quest wormer.
Now I don't know if other information was left out of what they found, I'm sure they were in shock last I talked to them was the day after event so I'm sure you are right its just something I will avoid until I have no other choice.
I agree I do not want to be the first one to try eqimax on my pregnant mares. I'm sure they will test it soon, and if it kills babies then at least they weren't my babies.
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