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Discussion on Injured horse, which drug is better
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 11:11 pm:
Our 4 yr. old gelding evidently tried to kill himself yesterday evening. I didn't see the entire thing, but he evidently tried to run through the wheel line twice. The line was broken in one place, and I saw him hit one of the wheels, roll over on his back, then get up and start running. I thought he was o.k. until I saw all the blood on his legs. After haltering him I saw all the damage; he pretty much skinned all the skin and much of the muscle off the fronts of the top half of both front legs. He was bleeding heavily, and had muscle and tissue just hanging.
Luckily, I was able to get a vet who spent over two hours suturing the horse back together. When he left, he left me with a bottle of Penicillin and said to give the horse 20cc once a day. I hate giving shots, especially to this horse as he's always been a little "wild" and is just getting easy to work with. I have some Trimethoprim-Sulfa powder. If I used this would it be as benificial as the Penicillin injections?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 1:10 am:
Sara,
Insomnia has me up and on the 'puter, and I must say, you are surely having bad luck with injuries it seems. This one must not be related to Libby with her good sense? (How is she doing btw?)
DrO will answer your question more accurately than me of course, but I did give Cody Penicillin shots when he got that nasty puncture wound inside his back leg and then went to the Trim Sulfa stuff just because it was so much nicer than doing the injections. I always have fresh Penicillin on hand to use if I have to while waiting on a vet. I got the impression my vet was relieved she didn't have to do that as it's alot of drug to push through a needle. I think the penicillin works faster maybe?
What's a wheel line? Was he pulling a cart or something?
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 6:26 am:
Sara, some of them are born to get into trouble aren't they?[or getting us into trouble]
I sure wouldn't like to give this injections if it wasn't the only solution, good chance he doesn't forgive you for a while
I second Angies question: what's a wheel line?
Jos
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 7:46 am:
Sorry to hear about your accident Sara,
Whether the TMP-SMZ would be as good as the penicillin is hard to predict. If you use the TMP-SMZ occasionally on the farm there is a good chance you have developed some resistant organisms (particularly strep and staph) and the pen a better choice. On the other hand gram negatives may be better treated with the sulfas. For the first few days you could use the two together: they potentiate each other. Then after 3 days when infection is less likely you could switch to just the sulfa drugs.
And while proper debridement, tension relieving techniques, and good closure of dead space makes a difference in outcome, how easily wounds of this type heal mostly depend on the nature of the injury: heavily bruised, contaminated, blood compromised tissues under a lot of tension open back up. Clean wounds with no tension heal well without antibiotics.
Percentage wise there are a few wounds between these two extremes where the antibiotic becomes a critical factor.
DrO
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 9:59 am:
oh DarN, Sara.. just words of encouragement,. I think.. hang in there, your boy does not know how lucky he is to have you taking care of him..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:00 am:
First of all so sorry Sara about your 4 yr old. The horse Oatmeal (that I know you all remember, lost most of his forearm muscle to wire and healed nicely and is pasture sound and now lives with a wonderful woman who planned on keeping him with her until he parted this earth) and even though the flap was cut off not sutured he did heal in a short time relative to the seriousness of the injury with good interventions and that mare who had the worst muscle and tissue injury I had ever seen that impaled herself, also healed nicely, although I am not sure about her usablitiy. So hopefully with your quick response and wonderful horsecare giving ability your young one will be fine. Prayers for you all.
Anyway, not that it isn't hard enough to give Pen G, but when in Pharmacology we learned to give no more than a certain amount of cc's per muscle group (but that was with humans) would a dose that large warrant a few injections in the equine Dr. O? Just for my own edification as I have divided doses when giving Pen G (20ccs in 2 syringes) and my horse was really not fond of me.
Corinne
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:29 am:
Jeez, Sara, you've had more than your fair share of bad luck lately! Just want to add my best wishes for 100% recovery for your gelding.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:42 am:
Up to this point this guy (AJ) has been healthy and has never had any type of antibiotics. I had the YMP-SMZ left over from Lil'Bit. I had just bought a big jar of it just before we had to put him down. I like the idea of using both for a few days, then DrOpping the pen. If it's too difficult to do the shots easily with him, I'll just do the TMP-SMZ I guess. The whole ordeal is very traumatic for him. He's always been terrified of water, so just hosing his front legs is traumatic. His personality is probably why he got hurt in the first place.
A wheel line is an irrigation device. It's a long aluminium pipe that is held about 3'off the ground by large wheels. It has irrigation "heads" spaced along the pipe which work like large "rain bird" type sprinklers. In the middle of the device is a motor, so you can move the pipe across the field. On a large field it is much easier to use for irrigation that a hand line. A hand line pipe lays on the ground. It's composed of about 20' sections which connect together. At each connection there is "rain bird" sprinkler. The hand line has to be taken apart and each section moved to where you want it in the field, then put back together. It is a lot of work as the lines have to be moved every few days. We had just bought the wheel line for the big pasture. It cost about $7000. My husband is none too happy, as you can immagine! We went out and looked at the line last night after Lonnie got home (he was away for the weekend.) It looks like AJ first hit the line up towards the middle and bent one of the pipe sections enought to break it in two; then he evidently ran down to the end of the line and ran into the last wheel which is bent in half.
I have no idea how or why he did this. The horses have been turned out off and on with the wheel line ever since we bought it, about a month ago, and they've treated it like a fence and just grazed on the one side of the line. If the want to go to the other side, they walk down to the end of the line and walk around it. The line is the length of our 3 ac. pasture.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:46 am:
Dr.O. - I am trying to keep swelling down with the cold water and a little walking. The vet didn't wrap any of the wounds as the worst looking ones were up high and he thought it would be difficult to keep a wrap on. Would it be best to try and put a pressure wrap on, or to just let them be and if they split open just keep hosing and keep them clean? There is one area just above his right knee (with a slit going across the knee) that I'm concerned about it's splitting, and then the areas just below his chest on each upper front leg that could split open. The right leg has some sutures in the muscle as well as in the outer skin.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:54 am:
Oh Sara, I'm so sorry to hear this. Take courage from Corinne's remarks - we have seen some remarkable wound healing on this site.
Perhaps some photos of the wounds you're asking about?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:26 am:
I had forgotten all about Oatmeal. I'll have to go back and read that thread.
You know, I had my phone (with camera) and should have taken pictures before he was stitched up. I just didn't think about it; I wish I had. I can take some of the "walking quilt" today. He still looks pretty gruesome. He's very alert and eating, drinking,etc. fine. It looks like he did a lot of stall walking last night. He also looks like he rubbed his head on his legs, which won't do. I may have to put a collar on him of some kind to keep him from rubbing his wounds.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:47 am:
Sara, well dam* that just isn't fair! When Ellie slit her back leg open my vet had us do both and with her that was a piece of cake. When Zarr tried to peel his back legs off that was hard. He HATES water especially from hose snake! So bucket of cold water had too do I also used one of the ice wraps for humans, the kind you keep in freeze just kept it on for 30 mins at a time, it helped. Horses are the "mother of invention" are they not ?? Best of luck Cindy
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Member:
christel
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:52 am:
Hi Sara, rats, always something going wrong when you own horses.
I have had good luck using a sbz called Tribriseron, sulfa type antibiotic. Didnt realize until DrO post that resistance to these type drugs was a reality. So far the tribrieseron is still working for me.- I use it for everything (as I too hate to give shots) but am now rethinking that after DrO's post- ummm.
I also use on wounds an antibiotic powder called Neopredif- awesome drug, have used it on my own wounds, it also has a pain reliever in it. After hosing the wound I put betadine on it, then the neopredif, then furozone to help keep it suble and the flys off.
Hope AJ heals fast, figure he will with your good care. I have never had a horse that didn't warm up to the hyDrOing- when they realize, gee this feels good- just think you will have a water broke horse when all this is over.
Hope that helped.
Chris
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 12:28 pm:
Sara,
How weird that he hit something he was used to being around. He musta really got scared and got going fast.
Around here the irrigation systems are waaay up above the ground except for the pipe that goes to the water source. So I've fun getting my horses to walk under it, even though they can't possibly hit their heads on it. (well, maybe rearing, not sure how high they actually are) The motor is at one end, and also is a challenge to get by. Then that scary silver pipe on the ground too, lol! Depending on the season and if the field is planted, we've experienced all aspects of that "monster".
But geesh, you'd think yours being like fence height as you said, it'd be o.k. They could even jump it I bet?
Ah, silly horses.
Take care, hope he recovers o.k.
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 6:44 pm:
Sara...you don't want to revisit the old post...remember the drama with that one LOL? It still gives me heartburn. We all cried one to many tears trying to help and alot of lessons were learned. Needless to say, his wounds healed, he became pasture sound and was eventually sold to that lovely women.
Anyway, sure do hope AJ is okay. When you start the hosing try it with room temp water. In the process of hosing a wound above the coronet proximal to the fetlock on the posterior off hind on Demetrius, who if any of you recall fell in the cross ties in objection to hosing the laceration on his cheek bone this fall, will only tolerate room temp water but he really is getting used to this is how wounds will be treated. The water this time really has debrided the wound wonderfully and compared to a similiar wound we treated differently before I became a member the healing time has been what seems like 10X faster without any lameness ever!
Great luck!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 6:39 am:
Sara, if NSAID's and antibiotics fail to control swelling in upper leg wounds with lots of soft tissue, the most dependably effective way to treat excessive swelling is to suture drains into the unclosed dead space that will wick the excess fluid and possible infection away from the sutured sites.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 11:38 am:
Dr.O, so far the swelling isn't bad. I've settled on spraying betadine-water solution over his legs several times a day. He's also being hand walked a little, and moves around quite a bit in his stall. The vet did leave openings in a couple of the worse places for drainage, but I don't beleive he put in drains. I'll be talking with him today hopefully. (I was impressed that he called me on Sunday to see how AJ was doing.) I've been giving him 20cc of Penicillin, plus the TMP-SMZ. I plan on DrOpping the Penicillin after today and continuing with the TMP-SMZ unless his vet says otherwise. My big concern at the moment is that he's started rubbing his nose on his legs and I'm afraid he'll rub out his sutures. He is perky and bright eyed, and moving really good, which is amazing to me.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 3:28 pm:
I'm so sorry Sara! I'm glad he's perky tho! Sending healing and calming thoughts to AJ so he'll let you clean him up.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 7:07 pm:
Sara - best wishes for quick healing. How easy it is for horses to get into trouble .... Lilo
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 11:32 am:
Sara,
Geeze, you have been having some problems lately....I know the irrigating system you have and he must have maybe been spooked at something to try running thru it...my goodness!!
When I have to give antibiotics, if the sulpha pills are not good enough, rather than Penicillin, which is soooooo hard to get thru a syringe, I use Naxell. Maybe Dr.O has something to say about Naxell.
be interesting to see if AJ goes near the pipe wheel again.
Best wishes for a fast recovery for AJ.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 1:10 pm:
AJ is doing good. I think I've been more traumatized by the whole episode than he has been! I gave him Penicillin, 20cc once a day (10cc on a side) plus the TMP-SMZ once a day. Now I'm just going to use the TMP-SMZ, plus a spray on antibiotic the vet gave me last night. (That might be exciting!) He's also getting bute twice a day. Swelling is very minimal, imo, for which I'm grateful. We continue to work with him on his water issue, and he's getting a little better, but has a long way to go. You'd think this guy had never been worked with! However, he has been handled and worked with since the day he was born. He's just always been a bit "flighty" and always hated water! Of course he would have to be the one that needs water on his legs! The rest of the horses will stand under the sprinklers if they are hot, and love bathes. He's moving good, and continues to eat and drink good.
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 2:42 pm:
Hey Sara,
Sounds great....I'm very happy AJ is doing so well...and I'be bet you'll have him used to water before too long...I guess some horses have 'issues' like people do, and AJ's is with water!!
Continued good luck with his recovery....hey, don't you hate giving penicillin...it's so darn hard to get thru the syringe...gggrrr!!
Hang in there, girl!!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 2:30 am:
Ever since this incident AJ has been very "on edge." I left town yesterday thinking that AJ was going to be o.k. When I left he was eating, drinking and eating his meds mixed with a little grain. I didn't try to give him a Pen.shot as he'd had one at the vet's. I had a planned trip to visit my son, and Lonnie told me to go ahead and go as we were both thinking that AJ would be o.k.
This afternoon Lonnie called and said that AJ has gotten progessively worse and fearful. No one can go in his stall without him acting afraid. If you try and put a halter on him, he rears up or runs for a corner. He won't eat, but is drinking. He's not eating the bute or antibiotics and no one is able to get close enough to him to give him anything orally or injected.
Vet (different one) has suggested leaving him alone and letting him settle down. Meanwhile, the sutures have started to break open again.
Does anyone have any suggestions as how to handle this situation? If I felt I could do anything different than what is being done, I'd fly home. Lonnie was going to leave food out, shut the barn doors (there are a couple of other horses in the barn) and leave him be for the night, then try spending "quiet time" with him in the a.m.
How long will the affects of the antibiotics last and how long before we have to worry about infection setting in?
I've never had a horse respond like this and am at a loss at the moment as to what can be done other than "letting him be" for awhile.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 2:55 am:
Is there any chance that AJ's behavior could be a reaction to the tranquilizers he was given? Wouldn't that have shown up sooner? Pen or sulfa would cause a more allergic type reaction, wouldn't they? I'm assuming the way he is acting is due to overall trauma, and pain also, since he hasn't had any bute since yesterday a.m.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 9:36 am:
Hi Sara, sorry things are going poorly. One lady I know, who couldn't get meds in her horse cored and apple out and pulverized the bute/antibiotics,put them in the apple an stuck the core back in. That worked for her, does AJ like apples?
As far as being fearful, I have worked with a few like that and what worked very well for me was everytime I passed his stall I would open the door, walk in and stand there for a second and leave. I probably did this 15 times a day increasing my time in the stall every time. I did not try to touch him, if he wanted to sniff me it was fine and I would leave. This took about 3 days before he trusted me. When he finally trusted me I would put the halter on and take it right back off and leave. He was manageable within a week. I don't think you have time for that  . maybe the apple trick will work. I know the lady also added a sprinkle of sugar inside the core also. Good luck
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 10:09 am:
How upsetting for you, Sara, and for Lonnie. It's so awful not to be able to understand what is going on in AJ's mind or body and to have the worry of keeping infection and pain away.
Not sure what to offer. If Dr. O. or another vet can tell you if AJ's actions are due to a REaction to a drug, that will be most helpful. Otherwise, just slow and easy, as Diane suggests, and maybe some applesauce or baby food carrots to put on a tiny bit of grain with the meds. It's times like these, when there is a horse that needs help but is dangerously resistant, that makes me wish I had a tranquilizer dart gun.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 10:09 am:
Pain and a desire to avoid further messing with would be at the top of my list also Sara but withot a physical exam I can only guess. Until someone with enough exerience to handle him comes along, leaving him alone is the safest route. I would consider seeing if the principles in Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses. I can't help but wonder if inadvertent application of these principles may have shaped the behavior you have now. Has he been cajoled during flighty behavior with treats in the mistaken notion this may calm him down?
Of course the unknown calculation is I don't know what the wound status is and how long they can go without being treated. I am afraid that is a judgement call by someone who can actually examine the horse.
DrO
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 10:11 am:
Hi Sara, is this the first time he's been off bute since the accident? Do you already have him on ulcer meds? The pain may be scaring him if it's not a reaction to the tranq...
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Member:
christel
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 10:30 am:
Rats again Sara. Are you the one that mainly handles this horse? I know if I left my husband home to doctor a horse I normally do, it would be the same, as he hardly ever handles, never feeds or does anything with my horses.
I assume Lonnie is more involved with your horses, but could it be AJ is missing you?
Wish I knew more to help, hope it gets better and you dont have to cut short your visit with your son.
Chris
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 11:24 am:
Sara,
Reading this has me glad I made the decision to stay home this weekend and moniter & doctor my 4 who were having bad reactions to rabies shots.
I swear, these animals just get so used to one person caring for them, and now "mom" has left the barn...oh NO!!
I think it's like DrO says, he's tired of being messed with, in pain, cooped up. My Arab will get that way too, and in her case she'll get ornery if you push her. IF you don't leave her alone when she tries to stay away from you, then the ears go back, tail starts swishing. Takes lots of talking and reassurance that it's O.K., and I know my husband or son can't help in these cases.
I hope he calms down, but you just may have to come home sooner than planned.
What a bummer, these sensitive horses!
Geesh, good luck, aye?
Ang
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 11:41 am:
I am not the only one that normally handles AJ, although I am the one "constant." Lonnie considers AJ his "special buddy" and often leads him in and out of the fields, stops and talks with him, etc.and when I'm not home, he's the one that feeds.
I have two sisters, in their 20's, who've had a lot of good experience who are helping me during the summer while my usual helper, whose been around for 2 yrs., is away on vacation. I've never observed either of these girls mishandling or being rough with any of the horses. AJ gets treats sometimes, usually a horse cookie, as do all the other horses. Training wise, AJ has been treated the same as all the others, reprimanded when needed, then back to "best friends." Normally, he's very sweet and friendly. When a yearling, he went through a spell of testing you when being led, but nothing more than most young horses do. This behavior is so abnormal for him, that is why I feel it is a reaction to the trauma itself, scary experience at the vet's, and maybe also to the pain. Up to this point, when getting shots, he has just stood there acting like he barely notices his gotten one. He hasn't tried to run, rear, or anything.
I've talked with my helpers and told them to first clean Libby's stall (next stall to AJ) then to act very normal and go in and start cleaning his stall. If this upsets him, to go back out and not even clean as I don't want him moving around. He's not been lying down since his accident, and flies aren't out yet, so it won't hurt him to have a dirty stall for a day. Lonnie is going to feed and make sure he has clean water. He's also going to leave a feed dish with a little feed in it with out any meds and see if AJ eats it; if he doesm he'll then leave the dish with a tiny amount of bute mixed with the feed and gradually build it up to a full dose if AJ keeps eating the feed. And I know he'll spend some time talking to him. Either Lonnie or I will talk with our regular vet when he gets back into town on Monday.
I'm concerned about his wounds, which I would consider massive, but think as long as there is not further breaking open of the sutures he'll eventually heal. I'm certainly going to read the articles you mention, Dr.O; also the ones on wound care. I read on excitability, nervousness and nuerological problems last night but didn't see anything I felt was applicable. I was a little concerned that AJ may have done some damage to his head. All I saw was him on his back with the wheel from the line on top of him, then him rolling out from under it, and the damage he did to himself and the line. I've no idea what I missed.
I will be home on Tuesday, if I don't fly home sooner. I'm up in Portland,OR going over wedding plans, menus, etc. with my son and his fiancee who are getting married in July. His fiancee and I are meeting with a seamstress today to approve her veil.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 12:53 pm:
Sara would it be possible for Lonnie to take a chair in and read a book?? The one curse/saving grace for arabs is they have to "know" ! Kinda like Diane said only a little more compressed in time due too injuries, and bump to head or neck crossed my mind also. And if Lonnie had a favorite treat in a pocket it would not hurt  .Other than being so worried about A.J. hope you enjoy the Rose City1 Cindy
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 2:19 pm:
Sara, I was surprised to see your latest posts on AJ...I was happy he was doing so well, and now it's a turn around.
I can't add much else to what everyone else has mentioned, except one thing, has your vet considered any type in internal injury AJ may have gotten in his struggle to get out from under the sprinkler pipe? Something that could be causing him pain that is not on the outside, but internal? And with that gash in his head, some sort of concusion?
It's very disturbing that he is so 'put off' by you & Lonnie. I haven't seen Denny around the forum, but maybe you could call or email him for some advice as far as getting AJ to allow you to treat him?
Are his lower body wounds so bad that you can't allow him a short time in a small outside pen...might help his attitude?
I'll be thinking of you and hope so much this gets resolved and AJ heals up...oh, as far as ulcer pain...you had mentioned AJ never had any pain meds before this? I may be wrong, but I believe it would take a few months on Bute for a horse to develope ulcers. It's possible the tranq you used may have had some effect on his behavior, I know a lot of times sedatives have a bad effect on cats & dogs...but, unless the tranq you used is something you have never used before, I would assume it has nothing to do with AJ's attitude.
I'm sure you'll keep us posted and you know we are all pulling for you & AJ to get thru this ordeal.
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 6:26 pm:
Sara Dear,
Finally getting caught up on E-mails and I am shocked you're having to deal with this after Libby. Prayers, thoughts and hugs are going your way.
Shirl and Sedona
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 9:21 pm:
I talked with Lonnie twice today. Aj is doing much better. Lonnie did spend time with him just talking with him, and he made sure no one bothered him during the morning. He said he left a pan of Equine Sr. on the floor of the stall, and AJ ate it; then Lonnie mixed antibiotic in with it and AJ ate most of that. Aj hasn't had any bute since the morning of the day he went to the vet's. From the sounds of things, pain isn't the major problem as he stands calmly in a corner of the stall and isn't sweating, pacing, etc. I would like him to be on bute if for no other reason than to help with inflammation so Lonnie was going to try to mix just 1 gram in with a little more Equine Sr. to see if AJ would eat it; if he will, then he'll gradually try and get more down him.
Lonnie hasn't tried to halter AJ or do anything with him, and has told the helpers to just leave him alone. AJ did come over to Lonnie and let him scratch his face.
Lonnie said that the stuff for our three new stalls was delivered and the fellow who delivered it is a friend and horse person who had heard about AJ and wanted to see how badly he was injured. Lonnie started to take Steve into the barn, and as soon as AJ saw someone he didn't know, he started to act frightened and nervous; so Lonnie took Steve back outside.
Lonnie thinks, and I agree, that AJ was really severely traumatized by his experience at the emergency vet's. (I know I certainly was! I felt exhausted and shaky by the time the evening was over!)
Hopefully the worst is over, and slowly AJ will come around to being himself again. I'll be home Tuesday a.m. and until then, unless something else unforeseen happens, AJ will be o.k. I think my non-horsey husband is doing an excellent job all things considered!
I was just so concerned by AJ's behavior and by the fact his sutures were ripping open again and he wasn't eating, nor was anyone able to treat his wounds her give him meds....I've never seen a horse that has been worked with all his life basically revert to being a "wild" animal.
Things always seems to happen on holidays and weekends; and emergencies are always worse when I'm not there to "take care of it" in person. I felt very torn between family and horses. Thank you all once again for suggestions and thoughts.
It's calming just to "talk" to people who will understand my worry and concern.
Joanie, AJ has no gash on his head (I was tired last night...did I say he did?)The emergency vet did use a combination of two different drugs on AJ, different than what the original vet used. Before this incident, the only time he was tranquilized was when he was "put down" to be gelded, and I assume that would be a totally different drug. I'm going to find out which drugs the emergency vet used and the dossage; I don't remember right now.
His wounds are what I would call "massive" on his upper legs. Both muscle and tendon sheath were stitched together on his upper left leg, plus lots of skin; on his right upper leg tendon sheath and vein were stitched together, I think. His legs look like they were made of patchwork quilts! Initially, I was hosing as much as he would let me, and squirting with water/betadine, then switched meds per Dr. O's advice. I was also hand walking him a little as I thought it would help with swelling. Since the sutures on the left leg have started to pull apart again, I think keeping him as still as possilbe is probably the best tactic at this point. Plus, I'd be terrified that if someone tried to lead him he'd pull away and run again as he knows he can do it now. I want to wait until he heals more, and I want to be the one leading him...with a stud chain, too.
I'll keep you posted. I owe my husband big time...he's DrOpping large hints about breakfast in bed.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 1:51 am:
My QH mare that has a lot of TB blood was hospitalized for 5 or 6 days last year and came home severely traumatized. It took awhile to diagnose her ( "riddled with ulcers in both areas of her stomach")because of her robust health and the low stress environment she came from. Consequently, she endured 3 days of intense diagnostic testing while receiving IV fluids and tubing. On the third day, she was finally scoped and diagnosed. They kept her two more days until she began eating. Once home, we had to give Sucralfate 3x a day and Gastroguard. Her panic would begin when someone approached the barn.
When we tried to put anything in her feed, she stopped eating entirely. To get her eating again, we withheld her feed and gave her only a very small portion of hay. When she was done, someone would go out and give her another small portion. We kept this up all day so that she would hopefully begin to associate us with food, in addition to medicine. By the end of the day, she ended up with her full portion of hay. Day 2, we gave the other horses their feed and let them begin eating. Then we entered her stall shaking just a handful of feed in her bucket. We dumped the bucket in her feed tub and played with the feed ( with my back to her ). In her case, she approached and looked like she was going to nose me away - I immediately left the stall. This is the manner in which she was fed for quite awhile and we increased her feed daily. The first time she didn't finish her feed, we dumped the leftovers and cut back until she was finishing it again. It finally worked with her, and she was soon getting impatient for her feed ( hearing the other horses eating )and would soon come up and nudge me away from her feed tub to get to her feed. It seemed to jig her mind out of the fixation on people=fright.
Every time we went to her stall we were stuffed with treats. I didn't give her any - I just wanted to smell like them. We left her halter on. Taking it on and off was just too much touching and trauma for her at the time. We found that things went better if we did not talk at all. I think that there had just been too much talking, talking, talking. Both at the hospital and at home. Soothing talk had come to be associated with medical treatment. And too many times, the soothing talk degenerates into "easy now, EASY, whoa boy, c'mon WHOA, EASY, EASY!!!" These last words are usually associated with horses balking and people jumping out of the way. The firm voices and jumping people become terrifying to the horse because this scenario is inadvertently repeated over and over again each time medication is needed. It's like conditioning...and it always starts out with "hi honey....mummy's here...."and it ends up in mayhem. If mayhem is most likely coming, then it's probably better not to speak. It's better not to allow the sound of your voice to become a feature connected with each horsey anxiety attack - or it could easily become a trigger. I also don't look straight into their eyes. It's almost like telegraphing a "get ready" signal.
I hung my lead around my neck so that it looked like I didn't have one. I tried to clip the lead on as quickly as possible and the second person would slip quickly in the stall while I was backing her in the corner. The second person would put a lip chain on her and once that was in place, for some reason ( Dr.O?)she would immediately relax, we'd shoot in the meds, and flip off the lip chain and leads - about 3 seconds from the time the lip chain was in place. THEN, and only then, she would be cuddled and fussed over, and stuffed with all those treats I constantly carried.
It wasn't more than one week before she began to relax as the lip chain lead was being threaded through her halter - before long, instead of a chain, we used a regular lead. At this time she would lower her head with her nose out for us to slip the lead over her gums. By the end of her treatment, there was no problem and we really did not need the lip shank, but I'd slip my one hand under her upper lip and rub her gums while I gave her the gastroguard.
I found that the lip shank kept both the horse and us safe. We got the medications dispensed quickly and easily and progressed to the treats and cuddles. The lip shank is never, of course, used as a correction device, only as a restraining aid.
The feeding routine reminded her that she depended on us for food, and that food and good came from us more often than medication.
Above all, try not to focus in directly on the horse, it alerts him to impending doom. Try not to meet his eye, and try to be having a conversation with another person when you enter his stall. If no one else is around, whistle a tune or sing a song ( he doesn't know if you're in tune ), it distracts him.
Sorry this is so long, Sara. I'm just so sorry you're having such a tough time.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 8:04 am:
Hello Lee,
Your observation of a properly used lip chain and relaxation is a common finding. Horses are at their absolute worse when nervous and uncertain what to do. "Fight or flight" is a dangerous state of mind when in a half ton animal confined in a stall with you.
If you can focus the nervous horse on the handler and make it very clear what is expected he will settle down. Some might invoke the endorphin effect similar to a twitch but I find it works best when the minimal amount of pressure that gets their attention is applied and it is in release for good behavior.
DrO
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 11:44 am:
Sara,
So sorry to hear about your worries with AJ. It seems that things are going a little better now.
I remember when I was on a business trip and my mare had pigeon fever at the time. She was under the care of my horsesitter and my husband - but, I was on the phone 3 times a day to check on how things were going. Just seems it is harder when we are not right there.
Good luck to you, your husband and to AJ that it will all turn out OK and he will heal up fine.
Lilo
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 7:30 pm:
Dear Sara,
It is really hard to " take care of things" while you're away, but, Lonnie seems to be doing a great job!
I do hope you enjoyed the time spent with your son...pretty sure "that's a given." But...
there's no place like home!
Sounds like AJ is on the mend, and will be just fine.
Have a nice flight home...talk to you later.
My Very Best,
Tonya
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 5, 2007 - 3:22 pm:
Sara,
yeah, I  got AJ mixed up with another horse...DUH!!
But, looks like with the support here, your dedication and love, doing all the right things, and the help of Lonnie, who I'be bet is everyone's Hero  right now, AJ is going to mend and return to being himself.
I hope when your son's wedding comes up, all the horses are 100% and you & Lonnie can really, really enjoy the wedding day!!
Once again...way to go, Lonnie...hip-hip-horayyyy!
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 5, 2007 - 10:14 pm:
Sara....so sorry I haven't posted much on AJ as my life has been crazy getting ready for shows, Demetrius' weight loss all the summer change of commands and going aways, putting together a 100 person surprise party for Herb's going away a Dallas family reunion next week, a USDF show the weekend after and home to NJ the week after that. Herb and I only have six weeks left so I am spending evenings with him but I am thinking of you and AJ. Email me if you need a shoulder to lean on. I am here for you in spirit.
Hugs to you both! And to Lonnie for his help.
God Bless,
Corinne
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Member:
cpacer
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 6, 2007 - 4:19 pm:
Hope he's doing better--always amazed at what might be going on in those horse brains when they get themselves in such trouble...
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 6, 2007 - 11:59 pm:
I got home last night about 11pm. First thing I did when I got out of the car was go to the barn. AJ seemed happy and maybe relieved to see me. He snuffled me all over and rubbed my shoulder with his lips. His wound looked pretty bad, but not quite as bad as Lonnie made it sound. AJ let me pet and rub on him. He was a little more nervous than usual, but not too bad.
This morning I fed and then loved on him a little and got a better look at his leg. The condition of the tissue didn't look good to me. I went to our regular vet's and talked with him, told him about the accident and all that followed. He said he'd stop by on his way into town later, which he did.
When he arrived, AJ was pretty nervous, but he let me halter him, and stood quietly for the most part while our vet examined him, removed some of the dead tissue, and swabbed him with "red wonder" a liquid that we also used when one of our stallion's was injured and that works wonders on open wounds. (I'm not sure what's in it; sorry. I'll try and find out.) Vet thinks that AJ will be fine with time; there is no swelling now and AJ is moving around pretty normally. Our vet had no problems with AJ, nor did I, although AJ was obviously nervous, he behaved. Our vet is very experienced and has a slow, quiet manner of doing things, which I think made a big difference. Also, AJ was in his stall not at a clinic. At any rate, I was pleased and very relieved with his behavior and with the vet's comments.
I took some pictures this afternoon which I'll try and post tomorrow. I'm too tired to do it right now.
btw - I did have a good visit with my son and his future bride. I felt sorry for her; her mom called her two or three times a day about wedding plans! I'm glad we just have to take care of a few things, not the ceremony and reception!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 9:51 am:
Here is a photo of the deepest part of his injury on his left front leg. I tried to get one that showed all the sutures on both legs, but I'm afraid it's a little dark and hard to see.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 10:16 am:
OUCH!!! Looks to me like it will just need lots of daily tending and it will be o.k. One of those wounds that looks really nasty but will heal o.k., hopefully!
Nice to hear the wedding plans and your visit went well.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 10:39 am:
Sara, I have no idea how you do it, I have to wonder if I would pass out everytime I see that! I'm very glad AJ is feeling better and more calm Take care.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 1:48 pm:
Aileen, it's got to be done, so you just do it. Actually, I've got to confess, I am pretty good at handling most things except shots. I can give shots to people and it doesn't faze me, but giving them to small children and animals is really hard for me to do for some reason. Guess a psychologist could have fun with that!
I was feeling pretty concerned about AJ while I was away; mostly because Lonnie, who's usually "Mr. Calm" sounded so worried and because I wasn't there to see for myself what was going on. Also, I knew how frightened and traumatized AJ was from the one vet. I was pretty traumatized, also! I was shaking after we got home; so that was still in my mind.
AJ continues to do good and I'm pretty sure he'll heal up fine. Gosh, look at some of the terrible injuries others have posted on this site!! It's encouraging to look at them and to realize how beautifully a horse can heal with proper care.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 1:49 am:
Sara: How is AJ doing, pain wise? Sometimes these horrendous wounds don't seem to bother them as much as they SHOULD. Like you, over the years, I've had to handle some pretty horrific injuries on my animals - and with horses, I just can't believe what they will allow you to do. I've been injured far worse while trying to deliver treatment to cats, dogs, and birds, than with horses.
And the problem you have with the shots? I have it too, except mine is with sutures. I can get through near anything, but when it's all over with.... nothing left but the sewing.....I'm useless.
Good luck, Sara, and may the upcoming nuptials be wonderful and find AJ well healed!
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 10:16 am:
Sara,
Damn...makes me hurt just to see AJ's owies...I also have seen horrendous injuries, and it IS amazing how they heal up. But I'd bet poor AJ was more in emotional pain than anything else with his ER visit to that 'other' vet... and now he has the best medicine of all...YOU!!
Give him a pat for me and good luck thru the rest of his recovery.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 10:32 am:
Horrible wounds no wonder he got out of his mind first getting them [must have been a struggle!] and after that the vet taking care of them.
But I do agree they look like wounds who with proper care[and no complications please] will heel well.
Keep my fingers crossed.
Jos
PS Looks like a beautiful colour horse
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 12:38 am:
AJ is doing great and healing beautifully so far. He is still very picky about who he'll let near him. It's very interesting to watch. He tolerates some people with nervousness if I am near him, like our vet. He loves attention from either Lonnie or I, of course; will allow one of the girls who horse-sits to halter him but not treat him, and won't let the other near him. The girls are sisters and the other horses seem to love both of them, so I assume there is some personality conflict there. Anyway, it's just interesting to me to see who he seems to like and who he doesn't.
I can see granulation tissue in all the open areas. I still haven't found out the ingredients in the "red wonder" gunk we paint on his wounds. The girls in the vets office only know the base is scarlet oil and it has stuff in it to help prevent proud flesh. I haven't had a chance to ask the vet. Before that man retires, however, I'm going to ply him with margarittas and try and get him to tell me what's in several of his concoctions!
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 2:01 am:
Lord if you find out what that stuff is pass it on! My vet gave us that stuff based on Scarlet oil but that's all they would say, it works !! Glad he is coming along so good. They certainly feel the nuances of everybody around them it is amazing to watch! Cindy
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 9:08 am:
Go AJ, go Sara and Lonnie! After all this is over, maybe you can open a rehab clinic and get some good out of all the experiences you are gathering.
Lilo
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 8:23 pm:
Though veterinarians have been healing wounds with scarlet oil for a long time, I find full skin thickness wounds do very well when treated with more tissue friendly products than what is in most common formulations of Scarlet Oil: a large amount of ethyl (and/or methyl) alcohol and tissue irritating organic aromatics. With a client of mine who was a true believer, I once ran a wound to wound comparison on a a horse who had run into some wire with very similar wounds on both hind legs. The scarlet oil side healed slower and with a larger scar compared to the recommendations in our article. I concede there are many other reasons why this might have been but there is no doubt about the effects of ethyl and methyl alcohol on healthy tissue.
Your wound will heal in a satisfactory manner Sara with the Scarlet Oil, and believe me I hate to contradict your veterinarian's advice and suggest you follow it. However I believe your wound has a better chance of healing more quickly with with less scar formation by using tissue friendly medications. I do think I would discuss it with him. I would be interested if he had a laceration of a major muscle belly that could not be sutured if he would use it on himself and if so, based on what research?
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 9:15 pm:
I understand what you are saying, Dr.O, and the reasoning behind it. I think one reason he is using this Red Wonder, as he calls it,(it has several ingredients other than the scarlet oil) is as a deterrent to proud flesh. I know I've used it on another horse that had really severe wounds and he healed up with no scarring at all.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 12, 2007 - 11:29 am:
When someone says no scarring at all, I always wonder about the nature of the wound. Even scalpel created wounds that are then well sutured leave a small scar. If in fact there are no scars at all means it was not a full skin thickness wound where you would always expect some scarring even if sutured. However some partial skin thickness wounds can be really deep, have remarkable bleeding, and appear fairly nasty.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 - 10:50 am:
Our black stallion had severe cuts on his legs and the deepest wound, his head between his jaws. That wound went all the way to his voice box. His leg wounds were bad enough that he couldn't walk on his right front for over a week. He was off work for almost a year. (He got loose at the trainers after being washed. You can read about it on one of the thread regarding safe tying.) I can't see any visable scarring, and I can't feel any when I run my fingers over the spots where his wounds were. There are also no white hairs where his wounds were.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 - 10:25 pm:
Sara are you saying when you separated the edges of the wound you would see the cartilages of the larynx and then packing this wound daily with scarlet oil there is now no signs of there ever having been a wound?
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 - 9:58 am:
HIs throat wound was a large puncture wound which the vet examined and said went to the larynx. It was so deep I couldn't reach the end of it with any of my fingers or with the swab which was 4 or more inches long. The wound was made by a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. And yes, there are no signs of there ever being a wound there.
What I find more remarkable is that his leg wounds, a couple of which were also pretty deep and long, all healed with no scaring. He has one small scar on the inside of his leg that is about an inch long that didn't grow hair. Othere than that, you can see no trace of his wounds.
The horse was standing drying from a bath, rubbed off his halter and ran over to the stalls of two other stallions and started causing havoc. He kicked at the stalls, bent a pipe panel, reared up and got a front leg caught in the PVC pipe of the sprinkler system, pulled a bunch of the pipe down, and somehow also managed to stab himself with a piece of it. He had cuts on the lower part of his front legs and one back leg. A couple of the cuts were large and deep. He had the throat wound, and lots of smaller cuts and scrapes on his neck. You would never know this happened to look at him now.
He stayed at the vet's for a couple of days, then came home. The only medication used on his throat was this "Red Wonder." On his legs several different things were used at different stages of healing, including the "Red Wonder" which was used on the deepest wound. The funny thing is I don't remember a cut where he now has a scar, and think he may have done it later on. His wounds that I remember were all on the fronts and outsides of his legs.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 12:15 am:
AJ's left leg is looking much better. The largest wound that was gaping open is at least half filled in. There have been a couple of smaller areas that also broke open, but nothing as bad as the one on his upper left front leg. He has turned into a pretty good patient, especially if I have a carrot or two in my pockets. A couple of times he has stood without a halter on and let me treat him! Now that I'm not so concerned about his bleeding or making his wounds break open wider, I'm going to start very slowly trying to get him used to the water treatment. Hopefully with patience I can get him to stand relatively still while I hose off his legs. It'll give him something to think about while he's standing in his stall anyway!
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 1:07 am:
Sara: I'm really glad to hear that things are calming down. These mountains we all climb with our horses are so exhausting until we cross the summit, and, with a sigh of relief, start down the other side - where recovery waits. I'm wondering if, while you're busy with AJ, do you have much daily care to do with Libby? Good heavens, Sara, with the wedding and all, you must be exhausted!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 2:33 pm:
It is wonderful they healed so well Sara, but putting ethyl and methyl alcohol on healing wounds certainly delays healing by damage to new skin cells so I must stick with my judgement: these wounds healed well not because of the miracle red stuff but inspite of it and we do not recommend their use.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 4:40 pm:
Lee, thank goodness I'm only the mother of the groom; I pity the mother of the bride!
All we have to do with Libby is walk her/turn her out in her pen twice a day for 20 mins. and try and keep her happy by giving her all the attention she feels she deserves.
Dr. O, doesn't the Scarlet Oil mix debride the wound much like water would? Not trying to argue, but I thought that was one reason for it's use so am curious.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 8:43 pm:
You're right, Sara, but does the mother of the bride have horses? Ain't NOBODY can relate like us mothers of glass legged horses!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 8:50 am:
I don't feel you are argumentative Sara, this is the purpose of this site, and appreciate your willingness to discuss this.
I don't think there are many similarities between the use of water under pressure and scarlet oil as you describe. Water debrides dead tissue, accumulating exudate, and bacteria mainly through the physical force of it's application under pressure. To some degree the water also helps tissue to keep from dehydrating. There are important electrostatic actions at the molecular level for the removal of bacteria but it is the force of application that produces debridement and its tissue friendliness that makes it a good substance to use.
The scarlet oil on the other hand represents a much more tissue toxic substance and while it has antimicrobial and probably insect repelling properties I don't believe the balance of the good versus the bad is justified. In the case of your wounds, you had a very satisfactory outcome, science suggests your outcome would have been better using other therapy. You could argue that how could the outcome be any better than what I got, but I suggest that has more to do with the nature of the wounds than the treatment used.
This matter really should be looked upon as a continuum and not so much in black and white terms. And the shade of grey on this continuum change in different environments. For instance a dermatologist with access to hospital facilities, large quantities of saline, and deep pocketbooks, would argue that plain water is not as good as sterile saline under pressure. On the other hand in environments where life threatening parasitic diseases are transmitted by flies and not much for clean water, a strong antibacterial that effectively repelled these flies might be considered more important than one than rapidly speeds healing with minimal scar formation.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 12:13 pm:
Thanks, Dr.O. Good explanation and I've learned something.
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 1:10 pm:
Sara,
Thank goodness the worst is behind you...and AJ...hope he continues to heal up, and when it's time for the big wedding, I sure hope all the horses cooperate and stay healthy and no more owies!!!
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 7:32 pm:
Here's hoping AJ is on the mend. You've been through enough already. If you put their care on paper, it would be a chart with a zig zag line going up and down. Hope you are leveled out with AJ.
Kathleen
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 12:56 pm:
Sara I am sure there are more pleasant ways to learn something! And I am also sure AJ agrees with me he will have learned a few things after this episode too.
Try to explain the horses they should fall ill after the wedding!
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 7:43 pm:
I've already told the horses that if anyone gets sick or injured between now and the wedding, they'll be shot on the spot!
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 8:05 pm:
 
Too funny, Sara!!!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 10:31 pm:
Joanie, trouble is, they know as well as you do that I don't mean it; and as usual, they will do just as they please!
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 10:14 am:
Sara,
You got that right!! You can hope, though!!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 2:34 pm:
Old Dutch saying: Hope keeps us going, often needed when having horses.
Jos
PS Other old saying: If you own horses and you want to end with a small farm, start with a big one, do they use this one in English too?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 5:52 pm:
Jos, yes. Here we say: "Want to know how to make a little money in the horse business? ... Start out with a lot of money!"
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 1:02 am:
Had to go to St. George today to run some errands. Just got there and received a phone call from our barn helper saying AJ had a very swollen right knee. His knee had looked good when I had fed; infact, all his injuries were looking good.
I hurried home expecting the worst. His knee was a little swollen, but not too badly, and he had a small knick and some ruffled hair at the top of his right foot. He acted very sore and although he was putting weight on his leg, he didn't want to bend his knee or move.
I gave him some bute, then looked around his stall to see what he could possibly have done. His back door was unlatched and open! My best guess was that he managed to undo the latches and tried to push the door open against the wind. He either banged his leg or got it caught in the door and pulled it out, or something along that line.
I called our vet who came out this evening and looked at him. He doesn't think it's serious, and put a wrap on him. He said if it was still swollen tomorrow, to bring him in for an x-ray and further examination.
We took AJ out into the yard and doc removed all his sutures (with no problems from AJ, btw) He suggested I let him out into the pen behind his stall for some socialization and a little more moving around. I let him out after dinner and will leave him out for the night, then bring him in before the flies get around. When I checked on him he was moving around visiting the other horses and amazingly enough not acting too wild. He bucked and kicked out twice when I first turned him into the pen and that was it.
I've decided his ordeal of the initial injury, which I'm sure he feels was an attack by the wheel line, and then the trauma he had at the substitue vet's, has convinced him that just about everything he does will hurt, and that until he knows better he won't risk the hurt. So, if something hurts him a little, he just won't move; and if someone he doesn't trust comes near, he tries to avoid them and become difficult. He's become a rather pessamistic soul, I'm afraid. Hopefully, he'll eventually return to normal!
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 1:44 am:
Sara, I think we should all chip in and buy AJ a life time supply of bubble wrap!! Cindy
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 2:07 am:
Or Sara a life time supply of tranquilizers.
Shirl
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 8:14 am:
would both be overkill????
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 8:36 am:
I'm soaked in Normandy send him here no irrigation systems, then you can sent the tranquillizers over here and AJ and I share
Jos
PS if he survives a trip by plane and I awaiting him at the airport.
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Member:
jd1947
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 10:41 am:
AJ in bubble wrap 
Have a great weekend everyone!!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 11:37 am:
Yes, bubble wrap and a helmet!
Love your graphic, Joanie!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 8:32 pm:
Thought I'd give an update on AJ. He's coming around mentally and physically. His right knee, which remained swollen for some time, is look much better. I did take him in for an x-ray and exam by the vet. There was no joint damage. The only thing that showed up was some thickening of the tissue above and below the joint. Our vet felt that this might be permenant, and didn't have the diagnostic means to investigate further (ie. MRI or sonogram that could be used in this area.) After awhile the swelling wasn't going down, and I found some "Cold Cast" wrap at a place down in St. George. I bought all I could find, and kept his knee area wrapped in it for a week (changing the wrap every 24 hrs.) This seemed to help the swelling quite a bit. The area right on his knee and below his knee looks normal, and his movement has improved greatly. I have been afraid to put any more of the Cold Cast on him in the weather we have been having for fear of damaging his skin. He hasn't been turned out, except for in his run, for a month due to the weather. His knee is looking pretty good, but is still swollen right above the knee. I'm going to start wrapping with a tight track bandage during the day to see if that will help take that swelling down.
All the confinement and handling has helped him a lot. He has become very people orientated and "lovey" He still acts "flighty" but responds to your calmness, telling hims "it's o.k." etc., which he didn't do before. I plan on working with him getting him used to the saddle, etc. as soon as the snow is off the arena. We've been just doing some yeilding exercises in his stall while the weather has been bad.
btw, his visit to the vet (our usual vet) was totally uneventful. He walked right into the trailer, unloaded perfectly, walked right into the vet's barn like he did it every day, and never acted up while he was being examined. That was a great relief to me! I had dreaded the trip to the vet, but he did great.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 10:37 pm:
Sara, Glad to hear AJ is progressing. They sell these neoprene bandages for knees that would probably work great for the swelling and are simple to use and clean. There made by weatherbeeta, I got mine on tackroominc.com for about $20. They are great, I used them after my horse healed from ripping his knees open to the bone to protect the skin while it toughened and to give support. They were much more economical and easier to use than wrapping.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 11:55 pm:
Isn't it wonderful when they surprise you with good behavior. Glad AJ seems to be on the mend.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 12:28 am:
Melissa, I'm going to take a look at those wraps and see if I think they'd work for him. I think he needs something that puts quite a bit of pressure on the swollen area. Thanks for the suggestion.
Diane, with horses like him it always makes me a little nervous...just waiting for the next trick! He is getting older, though, so hopefully he's maturing mentally as well.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 12:28 am:
Melissa, I'm going to take a look at those wraps and see if I think they'd work for him. I think he needs something that puts quite a bit of pressure on the swollen area. Thanks for the suggestion.
Diane, with horses like him it always makes me a little nervous...just waiting for the next trick! He is getting older, though, so hopefully he's maturing mentally as well.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 6:53 am:
Ditto on Melissa's recommendation of a neoprene knee boot. It is much easier to apply and get safe pressure on the swelling.
DrO
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 7:33 am:
Glad AJ is doing well, and if behaves like my 'flighty' types he never forgets something he has learned just invents something equally dangerous but there must be a limit to their inventing don't you think?
Jos
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 11:22 am:
Sara - good news on AJ. Hope the healing continues,
Lilo
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 5:42 pm:
Melissa, is the wrap you are talking about called "Proteckta wrap?" It is the only type I've been able to find so far. It looks like a polo wrap made of neoprene in the pictures.
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