|
|
Discussion on Experience with Hylaron?
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 3:29 pm:
Hello All,
I saw this ad for Hylaron in the May or June 04 issue of Equs magazine. I would like to put my horse on some kind of oral treatment containing glucosamine/chonDrOtin in an attempt to provide a/some benefit to my 14 yr old TB who is having his hocks injected next week.
I know from reading the information and posts that ingestion of these products is not a cure or in some horses even helpful, but I am looking for any way I can help slow down the process of degenerative joint arthritis for as long as possible by supplementing in nutritional ways.
This product contains all the current ingredients that you hear about to promote joint health in one product. It contains 100 mg Hyaluronic Acid, 10,000 mg Glucosamine, 2,000 mg ChonDrOitin and 10 grams MSM, 4,500 mg of Vitamin C per two ounce feeding rate. There is no "loading" dose. It is fed in a food grade flaxseed base materiea that provides both Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids.
The company that sells it is known as Glanzen. Their website is www.horsetech.com.
Does anyone else feed this product to their horses? Are the amounts posted above within reasonable levels to give to a horse every day?
As compared to products like Corta-flex, this seems worth a try.. Thoughts anyone?
Thank you,
Debra
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 11:38 pm:
I don't now about this particular product. I do have one of my mares on Cortaflex as well as msm and occasionaly bute. She had knee surgery several yrs. ago and now has arthritis very badly in that knee. I can really tell a difference in her since on the Cortaflex. I've tried the Hyaluronic acid (oral paste) on another horse that had a hock injury, and could tell no difference. The Legend shots seem to help him the most.
The "Horse Journal" just recently did a comparison of several different joint products. You might want to look their report up. I think you can access them online.
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 12:45 am:
Debra, i looked the above product up too.. looks great and the price is comparable to the 'stuff' i have been using.. only this one has the MSM in it.. and the H A ...
if you find the horse journal comparison, please share.. i am thinking of ordering the above..
Ann
|
Member:
Aewheele
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 7:45 am:
I recently read somewhere that HA given orally is not effective. I just injected my horse's hocks, and he's doing really well. If I can give him the same benefits using oral HA, I would love to.
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 1:48 pm:
Hello ladies,
Thank you for responding to my post. I tried looking up the Horse Journal online and kept getting a web page that said the the domain was up for sale, so nothing helped me there. I then clicked onto several different horse magazine articles that had tantalizing headlines regarding supplemental studies for joints only to be able to read the first sentence or two before discovering that you need to subscribe to the site to be able to read the entire article....Sigh
I called the 800 number (1-800-831-3309) to talk to a representative and ended up talking to the president of the company, Mr Rod Johnson. He was very easy to talk to and did not feel pushy or "hard sell" at all. We talked for about 15 minutes about the product, why the amounts were more stout than other supplements, and he answered questions I had regarding horse gear,(hock wraps that have ice cells in them).
The company is known as Glanzen. They have a logo known as Glanzen 3.
The company offers custom made supplements to riders who request such mixtures for their horses. Debbie McDonald, Kristina Harrison and George Williams are three of their clients to whom they supply customized supplement mixtures to their horses.
The company put out Hylaron OTC a year or two ago in response to riders asking for a supplemental combination for joint health that incorporates those products that are currently being used. Mr Johnson recognizes that it is very difficult to do concrete studies on supplemental efficacy bcause it is hard to maintain control groups, so he offers a money back refund policy if you are not pleased with the results you may be getting from your horse using his product.
I decided to order the 4 lb size of the Hylaron OTC. The price($71.95) is comparable to many of the other supplements that are offered in the catalogs, they offer free shipping, money back if not satisfied and there is more ingredient percentage to boot.
I realize that I will not be able to give an accurate accounting of whether this stuff is helping or not for probably a year, because I would think the hock injections would be most helpful for the first period of time while I am feeding the Hylaron.. My hope is that supporting my horse nutritionally will minimize the need for future hock injections, minimize his pain and give us more years of comfortable ridability.
The June issue of Equus has a very good article on the use of hyaluronan in horses. Whether this product is going to help my horse or not, it makes me feel better to do something that MIGHT give him a better future. It is so hard to see your buddy gimpy and stiff doing something as natural as going for an easy walk with my 13 year old daughter on his back.
That is how I spent my morning.. I will be curious to know what decisions or opinions any of you would have regarding this issue.
Smiles,
Debra
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 1:51 pm:
Hello ladies,
Thank you for responding to my post. I tried looking up the Horse Journal online and kept getting a web page that said the the domain was up for sale, so nothing helped me there. I then clicked onto several different horse magazine articles that had tantalizing headlines regarding supplemental studies for joints only to be able to read the first sentence or two before discovering that you need to subscribe to the site to be able to read the entire article....Sigh
I called the 800 number (1-800-831-3309) to talk to a representative and ended up talking to the president of the company, Mr Rod Johnson. He was very easy to talk to and did not feel pushy or "hard sell" at all. We talked for about 15 minutes about the product, why the amounts were more stout than other supplements, and he answered questions I had regarding horse gear,(hock wraps that have ice cells in them).
The company is known as Glanzen. They have a logo known as Glanzen 3.
The company offers custom made supplements to riders who request such mixtures for their horses. Debbie McDonald, Kristina Harrison and George Williams are three of their clients to whom they supply customized supplement mixtures to their horses.
The company put out Hylaron OTC a year or two ago in response to riders asking for a supplemental combination for joint health that incorporates those products that are currently being used. Mr Johnson recognizes that it is very difficult to do concrete studies on supplemental efficacy bcause it is hard to maintain control groups, so he offers a money back refund policy if you are not pleased with the results you may be getting from your horse using his product.
I decided to order the 4 lb size of the Hylaron OTC. The price($71.95) is comparable to many of the other supplements that are offered in the catalogs, they offer free shipping, money back if not satisfied and there is more ingredient percentage to boot.
I realize that I will not be able to give an accurate accounting of whether this stuff is helping or not for probably a year, because I would think the hock injections would be most helpful for the first period of time while I am feeding the Hylaron.. My hope is that supporting my horse nutritionally will minimize the need for future hock injections, minimize his pain and give us more years of comfortable ridability.
The June issue of Equus has a very good article on the use of hyaluronan in horses. Whether this product is going to help my horse or not, it makes me feel better to do something that MIGHT give him a better future. It is so hard to see your buddy gimpy and stiff doing something as natural as going for an easy walk with my 13 year old daughter on his back.
That is how I spent my morning.. I will be curious to know what decisions or opinions any of you would have regarding this issue.
Smiles,
Debra
|
Member:
Sunny66
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 2:03 pm:
Debra,
"It is so hard to see your buddy gimpy and stiff doing something as natural as going for an easy walk"
I can totally relate...mine is now getting Adequan IM, along with the Reitsport Lite from Horsetech...Rod is great.
I must say tho, that I am going back to Cosequin when the Reitsport runs out. I don't know if he's getting worse or if the Cosequin helped him more. Regardless, I know how you feel and I know how frustrating it is....but I also know how happy I am to see him sound again - and it wasn't until I started the Adequan IM.
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 2:04 pm:
https://www.equineperform.com/horse_glucosamine.asp
the above is the product i have been using.. formula II... the Hylaron OTC seems to have more mgs of the joint meds + a few others... unproven oral meds ie: MSM / HA
an added bonus is the vit. C
my mare for some reason has started turning up her nose to the alfalfa meal they use to mix the product to.. i called to see if they had changed anything.. nope.. my gelding eats anything up..
so i am thinking i will give it a try as well.. thanks for the info...
Ann
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 2:09 pm:
Aileen, i have used the Adequan IM on my mare.. i felt /saw no change... i have my geldings hoof joints injected with HA .. a HUGE difference...
i keep them both on some kind of joint supplement, to hopefully help them as well.. i have noticed a change in my mare when i took her off the oral while in foal.. then put back on after weaning... so i do believe there is something to it...
just my two cents...
Ann
|
Member:
Sunny66
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 2:46 pm:
Hi Ann,
How's your baby girl?
The Reitsport does have the chonDrOiten/gluc/msm in it, along with vitamin C, B, biotin, etc etc. I LOVE the way his coat feels, his attitude...everything since he's been on horsetech products. Except the lameness part...
If he goes off again...it may be navicular ...whoopee or his hocks. so it will be then when he will get injected in the joints to see if it helps.
There are so many products out there...so very confusing...I just want a healthy, happy, sound pony -- which I have -- today anyway. I'll probably look into this HA thing sooner than later 
Have a great day!!
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 3:10 pm:
dang horses anyway... i have to agree, my gelding since injections has been fine, BUT i have to stay on top of the shoeing every 4 1/2 weeks now..
my baby girl is not so tiny anymore... picture attached , she is now a year old..
Ann
|
Member:
Suzeb
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 4:01 pm:
Hello Girls,
Ann, your filly is gorgeous! Her coat is glowing with health.
I'll chuck in my 2cents worth of Joint Products.
My gelding will get I.V. shots of Map 5 which is an equivalent to Legend or Hyaloronic Acid. The beauty of this is that it will permeate all the joints without having to go through the digestive process via the stomach.
The caveats are:
Is he still sore because his heels/shoes are bothering him?
Some undiagnosed tendon/ligament problem?
Bad basic diet that will undo all the good things that you are trying to give this horse?
I can relate to Aileen about the front end/back end issues.
My own personal experience with an oral supplement versus an intramuscular product is remarkable.
Vitamin B12 taken orally will produce no effects really, but, a shot in the arm IM gives me quite a buzz. Do I have a lousy digestive system that can't absorb the oral B12? Quite possible.
Maybe the ticket is to administer the IV by your vet of course and then start with the oral.
I guess a rather riotous experiment would be to give your horse the oral joint supplement for a whole month or have him munch on a $100 bill and see if it made any difference. Both may contain MSM
Food for thought, pardon the pun 
Susan B.
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 4:10 pm:
Susan and the $100 bill is green , must hve other good stuff in it... 
Thank you for the commpliments on Danni, she is pastured raised and loving life..
Ann
|
Member:
Sunny66
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 4:21 pm:
Oh Ann, she's beautiful and HUGE! How tall is she now?
I have Brave on a 5 week shoeing cycle to hopefully cease and desist any more navic. changes. Don't know what else to try. Cross your fingers!!
Susan you are too funny!!
|
Member:
Cowgrl
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 6:23 pm:
Ann, that is one gorgeous filly, absolutely stunning. I can't believe the muscle development in a one year old!
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 6:50 pm:
i am horrid when it comes to guessing how many hands a horse is... all mine are over 16'3 , so its hard for me to tell... i would say she is 15 hhs now.. and you can tell she is in a growth stage, she is butt high... she is 100 % Hannovarian... 24/7 pasture builds healthy horses..
thanks again.. we are very proud of her...
***on another note farrier just left it was 5 weeks.. the gelding is trotting out sound.. so oral supplements/ joint injections.. special shoes ..WHAT EVER WORKS...
Ann
|
Member:
Sross
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 8:32 pm:
Being the horrible pack rat that I am, I was able to pull my back issues of Horse Journal to look at their recent joint supplement articles.
According to Horse Journal, "concurrent use of oral joint nutraceuticals will greatly extend the interval between needed injections for most horses."
Their basic take was start with something simple like glucosamine, if that doesn't provide sufficient relief step up to a glucosamine-chonDrOitin product, if still not enough then add some HA. If the HA makes a difference, then you might need a combination supplement with HA. But if you can get the job done with something as simple as glucosamine, there's no need to go further up the supplement ladder.
They did not examine the Hylaron product.
(I used the Glanzen GL for a while, seemed to do well.)
Their top pick was ChonDrOgen EQ (www.kinetictech.net), available in both powder and paste form. Contents include:
Glucosamine sulfate 5000mg
ChonDrOitin Sulfate 500mg
Sodium Hyaluronate 20mg
Manganese Sulfate 20mg
I used this product for a while with good results. I used the paste form, and according to the older mare I was dosing, the base is extremely palatable. After a couple of doses, this mare would practically open wide and say ahhhh! You should have seen the look of disgust on her face on the occasions when I slipped her a dewormer instead! 
|
Member:
Aewheele
|
Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 8:23 am:
I started using Equusea after I read an article in Horse Journal. My horse has been doing well, although I did just give him HA injection in his hocks for the first time. He's also been getting Adequan IM once a month for about a year. He's 16+ years old. He had a long arduous career before I bought him and he's got a lot of joint issues - hocks & hooves (ringbone). A multi-level approach to joint supplementation seems to be working for him - although it is very expensive. Has anyone else tried EquuSea? (Check the October(?) 2003 Horse Journal for information). I would love to hang my hat on one product that does it all, but I suspect that isn't possible.
Dr. O, you haven't weighed in on this discussion yet. Any comments?
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 8:47 am:
I am not familiar with the product but the analysis is very good per dose for glucosamine and chonDrOitin. There is not much work on oral hyaluronic acid so don't know if this might boost efficacy or not. Our suggestions for a chonDrOitin product are in the article.
DrO
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 12:13 pm:
Many thanks to all of you for taking the time to comment on my post. It does sound like we are all in search of the Holy Grail for soundness!
I do relate to Andrea's comment that multi-level approaches do seem to be a common thread when efforts are utilized to keep one's steed sound. I grabbed on to Sandra's quote like a magnet. Support with long intervals between injections would work for me!
Ann- your filly is gorgeous! I hope all your dreams for her come true.
Susan-I have never heard of Map 5. Do you inject it IV or does the vet? I am curious to learn more about this product and why you chose to use it over the IM injectables. How often and how long do you give him Map 5?
By the way- My $100 dollar bills are in an envelope labeled More Soundess Money- (MSM)
Aileen- Thank you for your kind words. I hope your horse has a long sound stretch for many months.
Dr.O- Can one over-dose a horse on too much Glucosamine and ChonDrOtins? Has a maximum level dose been established for any of the joint supplements on the market these days?
Smiles to All,
Debra
|
Member:
Pbauer
|
Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 11:19 pm:
Ann,
Your girl is a beauty!
Sincerely,
Tonya
|
Member:
Dres
|
Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 2004 - 1:18 am:
Thanks gang for all the great stuff re: joint supplements... and the time spent in putting it in print for all of us...
Ann
|
Member:
Suzeb
|
Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 2004 - 9:49 am:
Hello Debra,
You do have me doing my homework  .
Map-5 is a sterile Sodium Hyaluronate Cryopreservative for Mammalian Embryos.
The active ingredients for each 50mg vial is:
Sodium Hyaluronate Acid 50mg
Sodium Chloride USP 85mg
Sodium Phosphate Monobasic Dyhydrate USP 0.5mg
Sodium Phosphate Bibasic Dodecahydrate USP 6mg
Water for injection USP q.s. 10ml
Comes in 10mL vials at 5mg/mL
I have the vet come every 2 months to administer this I.V. God knows what vein I would hit. My gelding gets 2 vials per treatment at $53 a vial.
So it is difficult to store my $100 bills in wallet or envelope .
Why this was chosen over Legend? I believe a cost factor was involved and Map-5 will do the same thing.
We have tried Adequan IM and couldn't really see any results. However, my gelding was in a great deal of pain at the time. Might try the Adequan again now that he is much better.
His problems are: Caudal Heel Pain in front and Bone Spavin in Hocks which may not be completely fused.
The joint injections won't cure his arthritis but will make life easier for him. He is able to move around much better. Oh yes, scrupulous attention to shoeing those front feet. Balance and proper support is what really makes a difference for him.
He is also on a weight watching diet because it is less stress on the joints and the weight bearing structures in his feet.
He will also get Bute from time to time.
I too wish there was a magic product out there that does what it says it does or your money back and is easily available.
I live in Canada so some of these tempting products are only available in the US. Some companies will do international orders but the cost of the dollar exchange, shipping and handling charges and the possibility it will be tied up at Canada Customs for a silly length of time while it goes through 7 realms of Parliament.
Do I take the risk of spending money on something that may or may not work and never receive the product in the mail?
Sorry for the length of this but I hope it answers your questions.
Susan B.
P.S. The $100 bills up here are brown
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 2004 - 9:58 am:
No I don't think any of these products would be considered toxic.
DrO
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Saturday, Jun 5, 2004 - 12:04 pm:
Susan, I had a most enjoyable cup of coffee perusing and reading thru the different forums and ended my computer time chuckling at the humor in your reply to my question..
Thank you for your time and information. I learn so much from so many people from so many different parts of the world regarding horse care and concerns..
My family and I will be vacationing in Victoria, BC in a couple of weeks.. I will keep an eye out for brown $100 bills!
Smiles,
Debra
|
Member:
Suzeb
|
Posted on Saturday, Jun 5, 2004 - 1:03 pm:
Goodness Debra,
It is quite possible that we could run in to each other. I have family in Victoria and will be going in about 3 weeks.
Do visit the famous "Butchart Gardens".
Get on one of those horse drawn carriages and go for a tour.
Have "High Tea" at the Empress Hotel.
Must have a "Canada Cone" across the street from Empress.
Be prepared to eat lots of wonderful food.
I could go on and on.
Look up Victoria, British Columbia on the internet for all the things to do.
You will enjoy it.
Cheers,
Susan B.
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2004 - 3:11 pm:
What an amazing coincidence!
My husband and I visited Victoria about 15 years ago and just loved it! We didn't have kids at the time, but had a couple of dogs that have since gone to the Rainbow bridge. One of my favorite pictures is of my husband and the dogs surrounded by these fabulous roses in Buchart gardens.
I am hoping to add to those memories by getting a picture with my children, husband and the newest dog to document how fast time is flying by!
We are going to do our best to accomplish all your above suggestions.. The horse drawn carriage and "Canada Cone" got the highest interest rating from the kids!
We are planning to visit the week of the 21-25 of June. When will you be there? Too bad HA doesn't offer baseball caps or T-shirts so we could recognize each other if we passed on the street!
Have a wonderful vacation and I will look forward to reading your responses in future posts.
Our Justin is getting his hocks injected tomorrow so we are keeping our fingers crossed that this procedure will buy us more comfortable and pain free riding time with our sweet boy.
Smiles,
Debra
|
Member:
Suzeb
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 9, 2004 - 1:01 pm:
Debra,
Sadly I will miss you and your family, however, I will see to it that you and your family can have a Canada Cone on the house. Just so you don't have to give out any green or brown $100 bills.
You can email me privately for details if you wish.
The horse drawn carriages are lovely and I always enjoy and admire the big draft horses that pull these things. I have paid attention to what these big guys are wearing on their feet and it is pretty amazing.
Let us know how Justin gets on with the hock injections.
All the best,
Susan B.
|
New Member:
Debor
|
Posted on Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 - 12:02 pm:
What great timing! Thanks to everyone sharing your experiences. My 21 yo mare was very sore in her hocks. We treated, after vet exam, w/bute & cold hosing. Knowing her arthritic history, I requested updated xrays. Her left is fused, but her right isn't and probably never will. (at least a fused hock is not so painful!) So I discussed pain management w/vet. We agreed that injecting the hock would be very difficult and rejected that thought. Via previous experience we knew Adequan was beneficial The vet wanted also to do an IV Legend injection for 'instant' relief, at the same time as a Adequan IM. I will follow up at 1 week intervals w/additional Adequan. The results are pleasing, mare is more comfortable. Due to other health complications, she lives on easy street, being pampered and living a life w/o any riding work. I was curious about oral HA/GAG/ChonDrOition supplements, and have copied and pasted these messages to further study and investigate the products mentioned. Thank you all so much for sharing.
}Deb
|
New Member:
Lmiller
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 2:57 am:
I realize I am joining this thread late, but I can attest to the benefits of feeding Horsetech's Hylaron OTC/Reitsport-HA. It's great stuff (esp. Reitsport) that has really helped my 7YO mare focus better. Her coat, though now shaggy, is sparklingly gorgeous, and - the best part- she is moving much more nicely since starting her on these products. I think (of course this is only anectdotal) that the flaxseed may boost the effect of the combo of joint supplements. The added bonus (and something to be careful of) is that the CA/Phos. balance is corrected in these products for 1.3:1/1.4:1 ratio, where straight flaxseed is high in phosphorus. Both products are a little more expensive, but the Reitsport-HA incorporates everything: all the joint stuff, Omega-3 and Omega-6, biotin/methionine and probiotics. Added bonus: when you order they send cookies! Yum.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 10:40 am:
Hello LA,
Not only is your speculation anecdotal but unsupported by any work in horses I am aware of. We have several members that do praise the benefits of this supplement but I am leary about such an expensive "shotgun" approach to supplementation. Though I have been responsible for the health of thousands of horses over the last 20 years I have not seen the need for such a supplement. For those who find remarkable wide spread benefits from such a supplement I have to wonder about the quality of the rest of the diet. All my horses are sound, have wonderful coats and feet, and move very nicely without such a product. We do have one TWH with DJD of the hock that travels very well with generic glucosamine/chonDrOitin products that meet the specifications listed in our articles on arthritis.
DrO
|
Member:
9193
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 8:17 pm:
Hello,
Just wanted to update on my end. I stopped feeding the Hylaron almost eight months ago after my horse was diagnosed with soft tissue injuries in his left leg.
He is now on a supplement called Top Form Joint Supplement which is 99.8% pure glucosamine hyDrOchloride. It supplies 10,000 mg/day of glucosamine HCL for a 1,000 lb horse. This is part of the trio of meds (Glucosamine HCL daily, Adequan IM q two weeks and Surpass rubbed on the ligaments for several days when the work load is bumped up) reccomended to me by Dr Gillis who is featured in the rehab section of HA.
I need to say that my emphasis is now support for healing rather than prevention. I have no idea if what I am giving him is truly helping him heal, but his eight week ultrasounds are looking good.
I liked the Hylaron product too...
Happy Thanksgiving Everybody!
Debra
|
Member:
Brandi
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 10:02 pm:
Debra, I'm just the reverse. I started my horse on Dr. Gillis' Top Form when she started seeing my boy in July 2004, but switched to the Hylasport OTC (new name, but same as hylaron) about a year ago. For just a bit more money, I just feel like I'm getting a lot more stuff, and the same glucosamine. Yes, it is a shotgun approach and I can't say that this product is any better than the other, but I definitely think the flax makes them look better. No matter what you say, Dr. O., there's something about feeding stuff like this that just makes some of us sleep better at night...even though our credit card balances may be higher than they need to be ! Sorry!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 10:01 am:
No need for apology Brandi, I always maintain that if you are doing something that you think really helps the last thing you should do is change because someone with no more direct contact than a computer screen and keyboard says so! I am here to discuss my knowledge and experiences with taking care of healthy and sick horses but you are the final arbitrator of how you take care of your horse and....bank account.
DrO
|
|
|
