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Discussion on Effects of Regumate
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Member:
Megster
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 - 5:22 am:
Hi Dr O. I started giving my mare Regumate around 10 months ago when she was diagnosed with Epilepsy which was found to be linked to her coming into season. She would have a seizure around four days prior to her season. Since being on this the seizures have stopped completely and she seems a happier horse. My question is around the side effects of Regumate. I started feeding 5mls which wasn't enough (she is 16hh Cleveland Bay x so quite chunky). I have eventually increased this to around 8 mls a day which appears to be an adequate dose. Approximately four months ago I accidentally ran out and it took me a couple of days to get more stock - over this couple of days she started to produce sticky goo from her teats. Her teats grew quite dramatically and were hard. I was told this was normal and to put her straight back on the regumate, which I did and everything went back to normal. Since then though she has continued to produce small amounts of this sticky goo which drips out (very slowly) down her legs at its worst, or I find small hard DrOplets on her teats that I have to clean away. Should I be worried about this? I'm not sure whether possibly I'm feeding too much or too little and causing this to happen. I'd appreciate your view on this.
Thanks, Sarah.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 28, 2004 - 8:50 am:
Yes it is disconcerting but considering the alternatives, a side effect you can live with. It seems on the face that you cannot use less and am unsure if you upped the dose dramatically that this would stop, you could try a normal dose for awhile to see.
I am more interested in whether you can stop completely over the winter when your mare will not be cycling. Then in the spring begin after the first normal cycle, or even better after the first seizure. Occaasionally epileptic seizures in horses just stop. By doing this you have an opportunity to discover this and at the least return her reproductive system to a more normal state.
DrO
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Member:
Meggles
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 5:55 pm:
Dr O. On the back of my new post, i was just reading your response to my original query. I tried taking her off the drug in the winter and the siezures returned. They are held at bay at the moment by the drug, demonstrated by the fact that if she gets very stressed for any reason she will show signs of facial twitching for a few minutes before returning to normal. I upped the dose after your posting in this instance and for the last few months all disconcerting symptoms went away completely. She was for all intents and purposes very normal until the recent episode.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 7:11 am:
Thanks for the update Sarah. The experiment suggests that removal of the ovaries would not keep the horse from seizuring.
DrO
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Member:
Meggles
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:20 am:
Dr O. Could you please also look at my other current post which asks a number of questions on Regumate dosages. I have received some very kind advice from another member suggesting that the dose is too low. Problem is that noone seems to have a formula for calculating a horses weight and the dose of regumate required to prevent cycling. I've seen a snippet of information on your article re. dosages but to be honest I didn't really understand it.
Thanks
Sarah
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 7:50 am:
The proper dose of Regumate is in the article associated with this forum, Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Reproductive Drugs » Regumate® & Progesterone. To estimate a horses weight see, Care for Horses » Particular Situations & Procedures » Weight, Condition, and Eventual Height Estimation.
DrO
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Member:
Meggles
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 5:33 pm:
Hi Dr.O. In the interests of sharing information, I have an update on this whole situation. Meg's vet consulted a reproductive specialist last week about the gradual need I have found to have to increase the dosage of regumate. The conclusion is three fold. The regumate I am feeding is pig regumate which consists of a different proportion of altrenogest to horse regumate, and the dosage of pig regumate for a horse of Meg's size is 6mls, so I am feeding over double the recommended dose in order to keep the symptoms I have described above at bay. Overriding (and causing the problem of having to increase the dose) is that Meg is experiencing a pseudo-pregnancy which has been caused by, and is being exaccerbated by the regumate, hence the need to increase the dose to prevent the symptoms which are essentially caused by her body preparing to give birth. This explains the symptoms of skin sensitivity from the neck backwards(I've been reading some of the articles here from owners of pregnant mares and her behaviour is uncannily similar in so many respects) and waxy swollen teats, leaking a yellow substance. The plan is to start her on Promone A (quarterly progesterone injections) which will be supplemented by a low dose of regumate due to the fact that the progesterone injections do not always guarantee that the horse will stop cycling altogether. Obviously I need to guarantee this because of her seizures.
I'm not sure how this will stop the pseudopregnancy. In your experience, do these things generally just go away with time? I have to balance the requirement to keep her seizures at bay and if I stop the hormone treatment to allow the false pregnancy to take its course, she could have a serious fit. What do you think?
To top all of this off, I noticed that she had the first signs of laminitis three days ago and she is now confined to her stable for three weeks. This horse is not overweight, is fit and has never had laminitis before. Nothing in her routine has changed and I can't help being paranoid that this is all related.
Sarah
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 8:44 pm:
Dr.O, is Regumate the only treatment for seizures like this? There are so many side effects.
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Member:
Meggles
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 7:14 am:
Hi Sara. There are other treatments but there are many different causes of seizures and some people will never know what causes them in their horse. The other medication available may prevent seizures in some cases and is the same type of medicine given to humans with epilepsy. As far as I can see from my research, the side effects of that medication can be very unpleasant and it has to be fed in massive doses to horses which costs a fortune, particularly here in the UK. It just so happens that there is a clear link between my horses seizures and her coming into season, hence the need to prevent them altogether. She has had a couple of very minor episodes of facial twitching whilst on regumate (caused by her being left out in the field on her own and getting stressed out) but I can live with those, as long as she's not falling over in the field every four weeks. I've considered having her spayed but this would be as a last resort and doesn't guarantee success. I will need to try the progesterone injections, supplemented by regumate for 6 months to see if its successful and if not, spaying may be my last option.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 10:03 am:
How difficult for you! At least in your mare's case you have figured out a connection to her hormonal cycle.
I have had older broodmares who have had psuedo pregnancies. They appeared and acted so pregnant I was sure that while I wasn't home someone had turned them in with the stallion. In their cases, it just went away with one, and the other had to have hormone shots to end her "pregnancy."
The whole epelipsy thing with horses very interesting. I wonder how much research has been done concerning causes and if the causes in humans are the same as in horses. Are all cases of epelipsy related to hormones? Hormones are such powerful things in all animals and can cause such havoc. I'm just finding your mare's condition interesting. More power to you for dealing with it and not just trying to sell your mare.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 10:03 am:
I don't know Sarah, reconsider a temporary trial with more standard anti-epiletic medications and give the repro system time to reset itself. After symptoms of the pseudopregnancy resolve you may be able to return to lower dosages of Regumate. Just a thought.
DrO
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 7:33 am:
Hi Sarah and Sara
As Sarah has found out there is really no research being done in the UK on epilepsy/repeat seizures in horses. The recommendation is invariably the same - retire the horse or have it put down and claim the insurance. Sara, hormones undoubtedly play a role in several of the cases I have on my books, including my own mare, and I agree with you, hormones are powerful things and affect women and dogs particularly, and yet even my consultant who is one of the top vets in the UK thinks the connection is tenuous in my case. My trusty diary tells me that the link is there though and I've seen the evidence with my own eyes.
Sarah, I would agree with Dr O. If you combined the phenobarb with bromide you could start on a much smaller dose which would cost far less. Cara started on 30 tablets per day without KBr. I agree its not nice to see the horse doped up, but if she is getting stressed on the box rest anyway, it could kill two birds with one stone. She should start to go back to normal in a couple of weeks if the dose is just enough to stop the seizures. Remember I was back riding Cara within 8 weeks of starting her medication, and we enjoyed walks out on the lunge line in the meantime. Sorry to hear about Meg's laminitis. This year has been a good growing season so far and it could very well just be that. Apparently there are alot of gas colics around because of the grass this year.
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Member:
Meggles
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 3:28 pm:
Hi Helen
Its funny that you say its been a good growing season this year as we've actually had the opposite in the Midlands. I keep Meg on a haylage farm and the farmer and his buddies are all moaning about the lack of grass growth. I think part of Meg's problem has been from grazing on short new grass which is bursting with fructans as its trying to grow. Very dangerous. They do say that its always raining in Manchester though so maybe thats why you have good grass growth!  I now have agreement to strip graze Meg on smaller fields so that I can rotate her and always ensure that the grass is a suitable length for grazing, not too short or long. We're having real arguments on our yard about how to graze horses. Some believe in letting them roam in massive fields with long grass, others believe in bare paddocks, others in strip grazing etc etc. I'm not really sure there's a right or wrong but the strip grazing on rotated paddocks will hopefully work for me.
Thanks for the tip on the phenobarb but I can't bring myself to put her on it unless I'm in a situation where I absolutely have to. I'm going to start her on the injections next week and hope that things sort themselves out. I'll keep you updated.
x
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