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  Discussion on Haarlem Oil
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Member:
kamibroo

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 4:30 am:

I'm trying to figure out what this is. On the tube it also says juniperberry tar. Online I've found a sort of history of it: https://www.bottlebooks.com/questions/Oct2001/haarlem_oil.htm

I've also found this site that gives a sort of ingredients and medical claims: https://www.bird-flu-avian-influenza-grippe-aviaire.com/en

" Sulphur 16%, Pine turpentine 80%, Linseed oil 4%."

I know trainers that swear by this for kidney problems. There's conflicting dosing anywhere from 1-2 times to daily for 2 wks followed by 2x/wk routine.

Is anyone familiar with why/how this might be working for race horses in training?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 5:44 am:

Hello USHO,
Though Harlem Oil has been around for a long time the idea of feeding a horse turpentine is without any merit and potentially toxic when ingested (neurotoxin) or inhaled (lung necrosis). Usually the amount given in such cases is below the toxic level but there are certainly no known benefits.

Generally sulfur is in more than adequate quanities in the diet and nutritional grade linseed oil is used for its theoretical antiinflammatory properties, for more on this see the Fats and Oils article in the nutrition section. What would be the symptoms of the kidney problems you mention?
DrO
New Member:
kamib

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 12:10 pm:

Thanks for the input. I got the linseed (flax), but the turpentine was throwing me.

Very strange that vets and trainers swear by this stuff and it seems to have been around forever, but I can't find any studies of how it works or why it works. You would think at least one university student would have wanted to test out the claims.


I'm almost tempted to start a "Backside Legends" site (like the Urban Legends sites)
Member:
corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 11:35 pm:

Kami that would be interesting...not to get off the post but the idea that there are urban legends and or potentially dangerous treatments for horses (or that could harm the care givers) in horse care and management is fact. I would be interested to see a post where they can be discussed and debunked.
In relation to this post for instance and using potentially dangerous products for horses, I have been using Nitrofurizone a few times to keep a wound moist in addition to would care per HA since I am not there every day as treatment....I was shocked to find out via a vet tech the other day that it's carcinogenic (in lab conditions)when she thought I got some on my hands, I didn't as i was using aseptic technique but I did the product the day before so why would I ever want to use that again and risk exposure to myself let alone put it on my horses open wounds, which ironically was for open wound r/t cryo for tumors. It's now in the garbage. I should have read the label more closely. Turpentine I would love to hear how that one is beneficial.

v/r
Corinne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 - 9:01 am:

Hello Corinne,
With respect to oral turpentine the stuff is so toxic that it is impossible to carry out any responsible studies of this use.

Nitrofurazone wound sprays were removed from the market about 10 years ago because of the problem of finding minute quanities of nitrofuranes in the human food supply and experiments suggesting that it may be carcinogenic. The outcry was so large that it was brought back on the market with the label precautions you now read. When this happened I went and explored the case of carcinogenicity of this product. The case of carcinogenicity remains somewhat conjectural as tumors have only been clearly induced in a female mouse strain (B6C3F1 mice) that is predisposed to tumors do to a high number of pre-existing oncogenes and fed large doses daily for two years. There also has been evidence of a decrease in tumors in male mice for some type tumors and from a toxocological standpoint mice not fed rediculously high doses live longer than controls. It is proposed as a beneficial effect on gut microbes. The conclusion of what is the best and largest review of what is in the literature:

Natl Toxicol Program Tech Rep Ser. 1989 Sep;341:1-218.
NTP Toxicology and Carcinogenesis Studies of Nitrofurantoin (CAS No. 67-20-9) in F344/N Rats and B6C3F1 Mice (Feed Studies).

Conclusions: Under the conditions of these 2-year feed studies, there was some evidence of carcinogenic activity of nitrofurantoin for male F344/N rats as shown by increased incidences of uncommon kidney tubular cell neoplasms. Uncommon osteosarcomas of the bone and neoplasms of the subcutaneous tissue were observed in dosed male rats. Incidences of interstitial cell adenomas of the testis and neoplasms of the preputial gland were decreased in the 2,500-ppm group of male rats. There was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of nitrofurantoin for female F344/N rats fed diets containing 600 ppm or 1,300 ppm for 2 years. Female rats may have been able to tolerate higher doses. There was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of nitrofurantoin for male B6C3F1 mice fed diets containing 1,300 ppm or 2,500 ppm for 2 years. There was clear evidence of carcinogenic activity of nitrofurantoin for female B6C3F1 mice as shown by increased incidences of tubular adenomas, benign mixed tumors, and granulosa cell tumors of the ovary.

To emphasize what I think is the most important findings from what I think as a practical standpoint is that normal female mice that are fed 1,300 ppm of the diet show no evidence of increased carcinogenesis. Male mice predisposed to cancer formation can be fed twice this amount without evidence of carcinogenicity. This is equivalent to a horse being fed roughly 1 ounce nitrofurazone daily for two years. I am uncertain what human consumption rates would be comparably but I do think it wise to follow label directions and avoid skin contact. I am more concerned about allergic reactions as I know two people who have become allergic and please, though not on the label, don't eat it.
DrO
Member:
corinne

Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 - 9:48 am:

Wow Dr. O. Thanks for the information. My take on lab studies in Animals etc is that most anything when fed in large quantities for years can cause cancer I believe including bubble gum. Either way I always feel better reading the studies themselves just to be sure. I will continue to use the product when warranted but will now take extra precautions. And don't worry LOL....I promise I won't eat the stuff and add to that I will not let my children swim in paint buckets, I will always assume my McDonald's coffee is hot and my favorite (which happened here in OK) I will not start driving my RV down the road put it on cruise control and go back and make a sandwich.

Have a great day and once again thank you so much for the huge post!

v/r
Corinne
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 - 11:19 am:

I too would love to see a site that addressed a lot of the folk-lore cures and treatments.

When our vet first started practice he worked with an older man who was a vet for the TB track. He learned a lot of "folk medicine" treatments, potions and concoctions. Some of these he still uses and they seem to work. A few years ago one of our mares colicked severly and nothing seemed to help her. After trying the usual medical treatments with no results, he mixed up a batch of something that had herbs and turpintine in it and pushed it down the nasal tube into her stomach. Within an hour there was a big turn around. Up to that point we had both thought we would loose the mare. I suppose it could have been coincidence; but I feel his mixture saved her life.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 - 12:47 pm:

As Far as I know Haarlemmer olie as it is called in Holland[Haarlem is a small city in Holland] was used by generations of people to massage sore muscles[mostly human] My grandmother wouldn't go anywhere without a small bottle.
Jos
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 16, 2007 - 6:41 am:

It is an interesting story Sara and I have heard many such stories from my wife's side of the family. They have been in the horse business back at least 2 generations on her mothers side and here great grand uncles ran the local towns livery stable and kept the horses for the fire department. I am interested does he still administer kerosene and herbs to colic cases? And what herbs does he put in?

I can see that jos, from the contents and my own personal experience with kerosene and diesel it has a warming action on contact with the skin and I believe a strong odor has a ameliorating effect on low grade painful stimuli.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Nov 16, 2007 - 7:27 am:

I will try and find out for you, Dr.O. He has several concoctions for different ailments that he pulls out of his hat when all else fails, and the ones used on my horses have worked. I'm on my way out of town this a.m., but will ask when I return first of the week.
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