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Discussion on Doxycycline for Laminitis
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Member:
edf03
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 11:55 am:
Does anyone have any experience with using doxycycline to treat laminitis. My horse foundered the end of November for no known reason. There were no changes in his feeding and we keep his weight down. We had pads and shoes applied and treated with bute and he seemed to be coming along fine. But this week he started going lame again and the vet has diagnosed a flare up of the laminitis. He thinks my horse has equine metabolic synDrOme. He suggested the doxy saying it is an experimental treatment at this time but it might help. Just wondering if anyone else has information about this. Thanks, Diane
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 3:26 pm:
Interesting...I don't see how Doxy could help, but stranger things have happened .
With my metabolic horses I always thought nothing changed also, they have taught me different. Subtle things such as snow melt and grass coming thru, yes even in the winter can set mine off. Hard winter ground can make my one foundered boy very sore. Hay with a little alfalfa can set off the other one. I see you are from Mn. if you had the Jan thaw like us and then Mr. winter came back, it could be the hard ground, ect. Figuring these guys triggers out is quite a feat. I have read virgimyacin (sp) is in founder guard and is suppose to keep founder away, but a good trim and diet works too. Good Luck and let us know about the Doxy.
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Member:
edf03
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 8:47 am:
His first founder episode was 4 years ago and he was great since then. I wonder if risk increases with age. My plan is to convince the barn owner to take him off the round bale. I liked it because it gave CJ something to do (eat all day) and seemed to calm him down. But now I realize he does do everything to excess. I can't give him a mineral block because he will eat the whole thing in just a few days! I just hope we can get and keep him sound again. I hate the thought of having to sell him and it would be hard to find someone who would understand his care. He is so much fun to trail ride and he knows several tricks. I have put so much work into him - his personality is just like an overgrown kid.
The round bale is mostly grass but he was getting some alfalfa at night in the barn but again that wasn't a change. It sounds like he needs what I need -- More exercise and less food
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 9:15 am:
That is usually the best plan! The first time I had a horse founder in the winter was when they were on grass round bales. I started feeding them in Nov. and by Dec. he foundered. Of course their heads never came out of it. . I would love to feed round bales, but mine get way too fat on them.
With the thick winter coats I just didn't see it coming. It is -15 degrees here today without the windchill, and I gave the horses 2 leafs of grass hay this morning and felt guilty, but them foundering makes me feel much more guilty. I hope your guy recovers he sounds wonderful. Be sure to keep his hooves in good shape too.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 12:06 pm:
Hello DianeF,
There are several intriguing possibilities here. We have seen experiments where antibiotics were used to treat grain overload cases with the idea of preventing the bacterial bloom in the cecum that causes the release of the founder potentiating chemicals: matrix-metalloproteases (Mmps) activators. But as a treatment for other forms of founder, I have not seen any research.
Another possibility is that the tetracyclines have been shown to have some specific suppression of matrix-metalloproteases (Mmps). Because of this there has been speculation that they may be useful in some arthritic conditions. Mmps are believed to have some role in founder but I have not seen any work on this possibility. I would be interested in any research on this subject your veterinarian has.
For more on Mmps and founder check out Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Founder & Laminitis an Overview.
DrO
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Member:
edf03
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 2:41 pm:
Diane - thanks for your tips. I feel better about CJ. I was able to talk to the barn owner this morning and he is willing to put my horses in the one turnout he has that does not have the round bale feeder. So we will see if that does the trick. Otherwise he would have moved the round feeder out but it is frozen into the ground now. How much hay do you feed and how often? Do you have any ideas how to keep them occupied to prevent boredom when they can't eat all day?
We have a wonderful farrier but he is out of town now and I don't really want to have someone else work on his feet. The past two years we've done our trail riding barefoot. Hope to be able to get back to that but will do whatever it takes to keep him comfortable.
Dr. O - I will be talking more with my vet about the medication. I want more information about the research before launching into that. But also wondered if it would help his chronic thrush???
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 4:36 pm:
I usually feed mine twice a day and if it is above 20 degrees they get their mush (beet pulp, safechoice, and alfalfa pellets 1/2 cup of each watered down) and just 1 flake of hay about 3 lbs. each in the morning. At night they get the mush and 2 flakes of grass hay.
When it is VERY VERY cold and damp they get 2 flakes in the morning and 3 at night.....2 of the flakes are stemmy grass hay. (not very often)
They amuse themselves during the day sunning and pawing thru the snow, they don't get bored easily it would seem and are perfectly happy standing in the sun doing nothing. I can see their hoof prints out in the pasture in the morning so they must paw for morsels at night after they eat their hay.
Mine are holding their weight too well with this amount of food. When it starts warming up a little their rations will be cut in half. I want horses in good weight to a little thin come spring so they can tolerate at least some grass. It is very tough with these easy keepers especially in the winter when exercise is almost impossible.
One thing I have found that clears up thrush fairly fast is the cow mastitis stuff called tomorrow it has never failed me.Dr. O. also has an article in here about thrush that works well. I see your horse wears pads and that could be his problem have you ever considered using equipak CS for his pads? It cleared up my horses thrush when he was in pads and it never returned.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 - 11:51 am:
In general no, I don't think this would help with chronic thrush. If the thrush has broken through to sensitive tissues there may be a transient benefit but most cases of chronic thrush are caused by conformation and conditions for more see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Thrush.
DrO
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Member:
freshman
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 - 7:09 pm:
Have also of heard many folks using the Tomarrow dry-cow mastitis gel(cephapirin)for their chronically thushy horses, but have never used it myself. Like Diane E says, people swear by it.
Any antibac, abx, or fungal use or might work better just b/c the gel might stay in contact frog nooks and crannies or stay in contact with with the sole longer than say a liquid product?
I can totally see how it may have a pretty effective placebo effect since everyone says how much cheaper and easier it is to apply; obviously they are much more likely to start "treatent" at the 1st signs and use it every day (and thus clean the feet regularly!) if this gel is easier to use than your standard koppertox or dilute bleach tx? Both are wicked hard on clothes.
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