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| Discussion on Has Anyone Ever Tried Heiro? | |
| Author | Message |
| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 11:56 am: During my extensive research on insulin resistance in horses, I came across this product and have been wondering if anyone has ever tried it. https://www.equinemedsurg.com/faqir.htmlThe write-up on it says that it was developed as a way to help IR horses maintain a more normal insulin level, while also being able to get them out of "dry lot jail" and out in pasture where they really want to be. It looks like a very interesting product, also helps normal easy keepers get out of jail as well. I'm really curious if anyone has used it and what their results were, good or bad.....I want to try it but, I'm skert.  The price isn't bad either, much less than what I had to give my Cushing's horse for 5 years 11 months. If you have tried it, please share with me what you thought of it, or any comments you might care to share. 
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 1:51 pm: Hi Patty, I never tried the supplement (surprisingly)because on my quest to release Hank from "jail" I would have tried anything.I hate to preach this but I have learned the hard way and try to save people time and money. Supplements aren't going to get horses out of "IR jail" ( MIGHT HELP)..Diet and exercise will. These kind of advertisements always lured me in for the quick cure, but let's face it if it was that good it would be one of the most popular supplements out there! Good bye grazing muzzles  Tablespoon of supplement and horse can graze would be great!!!! These kind of advertisements make me mad now. Unknowing horse owners looking for a quick cure, could damage their horse for life with founder. Insulin levels vary day to day and if you recall me saying Hank didn't test IR on the day he was tested...OH but he is, no doubt in my mind at all!!! I would bet money if I put him on that supplement and out on some nice green grass he would be four feet in the air with the pain of founder. However when he went into spring with a BCS of 4-5 we had no problems. I know you wanted to know about the supplement, but I'm trying to save you some money and tell you I don't think there is one out there that beats the cheap choice of diet and as much exercise as possible. It's hard but possible, I battle it daily in my head. |
| Member: scooter |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 7:31 pm: Thanks for your input Diane, I really value your opinion. I'd love to have contact with someone who has used it for an unbiased opinion...as in has nothing to gain or lose by sharing their experience. My fingers are crossed that someone here has used it as the website does make it sound really good.....but. I'm trying a slightly new approach with Ziggy and his feeding schedule. My usual grooming time is while he's eating his bedtime hay and I've noticed lately the colder it is, the ornerier he is....and the thought occurred to me that he may be "protecting" his hay in his mind. The change I made while it's cold out is to add hay to the 5:00 feeding so he's not quite so "starved" when I go back out at 9:30. I remember several saying that free choice hay made their horses calmer. Free choice is out of the question for him but maybe if I feed less hay in the morning, some hay at 5:00, then normal 2 lb. pad of hay for the night, I might find him not so up tight and starving at 9:30. It ends up being a slight increase in hay but when it's in the 20's to 50's, I don't think it will hurt him any. You mentioned again that Hank tested negative for IR but you swear he is? I'm in the same boat and refer to you when anyone looks at me like I have a wet noodle in my brain. The crest, the starvation stories he tells my visitors....yup, that's him, a perfect example of a closet IR...lol. Which reminds me---->how are the round bales working for Hank's weight? Today we put in a 70 gallon water tub with screw in heating element...to replace my heated stall buckets. Ziggy, in his infinite wisdom, entertains himself by banging the heated buckets (lift and let go) into the wall and sooner rather than later, they no longer work. He's broken 2 out of 3 sooooo, to outsmart him, the 70 gallon is too big for him move. This may also help with my other problem as well---> Bokay won't drink out of an indoor bucket but she would drink out of an ice bucket outside. I'm hoping the heated tub will encourage her to drink since it's outside and not covered with ice in the morning...or so it's supposed to work that way. My other project today...now don't laugh...we had to put a rescue net behind the stall wall in Ziggy's stall...to catch chickens when they drink too much and fall off their roost. There's a 4 inch gap between the 2x4's and the outer wall and for some God foresaken reason, 12 chickens have moved into the barn and perch on the top of his back wall...lol. One was missing for a day or two and I found her behind the wall patiently waiting to be rescued (with a fishing net). Now the space is filled with a wire net...that way they can't fall down but their ummmmmm business can? There's a henhouse and various coops so why they moved into the barn is a mystery but, there they are, 12 of them. They're mostly banties, leaving the bigger ones in the other areas. AS I often say....never a dull moment. To finish out the holiday decor, I had bought a pappa deer, momma deer and a baby dear for out front....today they came out of their boxes and appear to be enjoying my front yard.  Heck, they were on sale, I couldn't resist. OK, back to original question: Has anyone here ever tried Heiro? I'm really curious to know how well it worked................ |
| Member: ekaufman |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 9:26 pm: Elizabeth......of course I was looking for your opinion...I'm hoping more will chime in. The write-up comes across as the miracle every IR horse wants but my emotional involvement makes me want to hear from someone who has used it. I've been giving Zig more lunge time as best I can until after the holiday. By the time Christmas is here, I have to take a week off just to recover..by spending the first two days flat on my back refusing to move, unless someone yells FIRE! Truth be known, I would pay any reasonable price to get Zigman out in the pasture, if it's out there and really works, I'll buy it. At this point, I don't think there's a routine he and I are built for that would make him able to hit the pasture all day....and that leaves me vulnerable to adds like this one. If I knew someone it worked for, I'd be willing to try it............ Ziggy has a very active mind that I think is tied in with his very high IQ. Keeping him entertained is a challenge, he has hula hoops, jugs of rocks and until he flattens it, a great big kid's ball. Sometimes I leave buckets out just to see where they'll end up by morning...lol. He's definitely not one for just standing around with that "duh" look on his face, his head is always up and watching everything. I've never seen such a busy mind. If he were a person, you'd never find him watching tv, he'd be out in the garage tinkering or taking something apart to see how it works...lol. Anyway, I truly am interested in what everyone thinks of the link...good or bad.....honest.
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| Member: ekaufman |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 11:11 pm: Hi Elizabeth. I've considered using one but will have to shop around to find one that will fit his little Arab nose. My Cushing's horse had one but she figured out how to maneuver it and eat thru the webbing, rather than the little hole in the end of it. Once she started doing that, it became a mute point and I just cut back on the grazing time. My concern would be he would figure out the same thing...which would not at all surprise me. But it is worth considering, at least once the Spring grass comes along.
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| Member: scooter |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 10:13 am: Good morning...and thanks for commenting Diane. I'm in a bit of a rush this morning (late again) but I wanted to share this little tidbit: Last night when I fed for the night, Ziggy was an absolute dream, calm, quiet, very gentle towards his momma. He was so mellow and sweet that I even mentioned it to hubby when he came out a little later. I was sooo floored, I even asked Ziggy why he was in such a good mood. The weather was a little warmer but all I did last night was pick feet and brush manes...but even that, he was perfect. Totally stumped, I just said "thank you for being such a good boy tonight." Little did I know--------> When hubby fed at 5:00 (while I hosed down the haynets), he closed the pasture gate BUT, he forgot to close the back door to the other barn....and guess what direction Ziggy came from when I fed at 9:30? YUP. Sometime after he would have been done with his 5:00 haynet, he discovered the open door and went back out. I don't know if it was for maybe 1 hour or possibly 3 hours but much to my relief (due to the dead grass), he is fine both last night and this morning....... Now I find myself thinking back---->Why did his sneak attack on the pasture mellow him out so much? There was no aggression, no foul mood, no "protecting" his hay...he just acted normal, why? Could this be a clue to something? He has no flags to say ulcer (lack of appetite, loose stools, biting or stancing...but could it be? Is there an irritation going on that his stomach needs food to prevent? Dr.O, I hope you're reading this, my inquiring mind really wants to know. Diane...Virginia winters are nothing like yours but anything below 30 and we huddle by the fireplace. If I were to guess, anything below 40 seems to bring out the "feed me or I'll die" attitude. Maybe it's like yours but relative to what they're used to for an environment? Interesting............. Gotta run, I am my own worst boss....lol.
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| Member: leslie1 |
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| Moderator: DrO |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 9:42 am: Oops, my bad......I meant to post that under grumpy gelding test results...which I will go do right now. ----------------------------------------- OK, I moved the post if you want to delete my misplaced one from yesterday (the 15th). |
| New Member: shedwall |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 2:22 pm: Hi Shelley....and thanks for posting. I'm very interested to know how your experiment goes, please keep me posted. It took almost a year to really understand what was going on with the Zigster but after allll the experimenting I did with him, it took a combination of the following to get rid of his mood swings that apparently were all connected with insulin responses. 1. Cut way back on pasture time but allow as much turn out time as possible in a sacrifice area. The most grazing time he can have, green grass or dead grass has been zeroed in on 3 hours. Now that he is of normal weight though, it will be interesting to see if the dead grass still sends him off the deep end this winter. 2. I did put him on Quiessence for the magnesium/chromium and so far, I have enough faith in my vet and the product that I have left him on it. 3. Feed a small amount of Triple Crown Lite feed to keep him up on his other vitamins and minerals....and protein. 4. Weigh his hay with a digital scale....not the mechanical one, (mine was not calibrated right). Once I got the hay right, he get's around 5 lbs. daily in addition to turn out grazing time, the weight came right off. I also soak his hay for an hour or more since there is no one around here that sells tested hay. 5. When he needs more calories to maintain his weight, I use Triple Crown Rice Bran Oil Plus. By using fat calories to help stabilize him, I have been able to keep his carb calories down. 5. I also use TC Safe Starch Forage to add bulk without adding a lot of carbs. By suing this approach, he had made tremendous progress in the mood swings....which came hand in hand with his "I'm starving" attitude. One of his insulin signals is the more grass or hay you fed, the hungrier he got. Right now, he is at the point where his appetite is perfectly normal, even walks away from some of his food and goes back to it later.....totally opposite from where we were a year ago. Keeping his IR under control takes a combination of all of the above. Because I don't ride much, I keep him loose in the paddock and arena as much as possible, then they get grass time for 3 hours, depending on the growth pattern. Everything I've done with him has been under the guidance of a vet with a PhD in equine nutrition so, I know it's all been done safely. He feels better, acts better and looks better....normal by most standards. I did try putting him out on mature grass but with the voracious appetite, he just ate a lot of grass which always set us backwards....darn it. It will be interesting to see how he does with the winter grass this year....... Anyway, please keep me/us posted on your experience with Heiro. It would be great if it works as stated but since I don't know anyone using it locally, I just don't know what to think. But good luck to you, I'll be waiting and wondering.
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| New Member: shedwall |
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| Member: pattyb |
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 12:27 am: Thanks Shelley.I will admit, I was fortunate to find Ziggy's problem early before any damage was done. My initial clue that something was waaay off with him was the drastic mood swings....fine one day, nice and mellow...and attacking his food like he's starving the next day. I can't tell you how many nights I laid in bed staring at the ceiling wondering what was setting him off. When the specialist spent 15 minutes talking with me about him, as soon as I said voracious appetite, he knew right where to start. It was early enough in the process that his resting blood work was normal yet a few hours after grazing, he was like a raving lunatic by feeding time a few hours later. The difference in his attitude was actually shocking and I knew there had to be a cause. Once I started subtracting carbs, weighing and soaking his hay and adding fat for maintenance calories, he just turned right around within a week at the most. Good luck Shelley!
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| Moderator: DrO |
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| Member: erika |
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| Member: shedwall |
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| Member: pattyb |
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| Member: pattyb |
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| Member: scooter |
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| Member: shedwall |
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| Moderator: DrO |
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