This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Treatments and Medications for Horses » Sedatives & Anesthetics » Tryptophan »
  Discussion on Tryptophan versus SSRIs
Author Message
New Member:
jlatzmd

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 4, 2009 - 12:14 pm:

The study referred to on this site indicated a possible increase in mild agitation with L-Tryp. If the theory behind administration is to increase building blocks that become serotonin and thus decrease anxiety/panic/fear and improve mood, would it be parallel to the human experience that a human NOT deficient in this arena may be agitated/induced into mania by these drugs. Yet, the corollary to this would be if a horse was stressed, and deficient in CNS serotonin, would the L-tryp have, indeed, a beneficial effect?
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 4, 2009 - 11:54 pm:

Great question, I'm watching for DrO's reply too.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 5, 2009 - 8:09 am:

Hello DrL,
If that indeed is the experience in people yes I think parallel would be a accurate description though not knowing the actual pharmacological/physiological mechanism in either case I could not say if it the same medical condition. As to whether stress results in deficient CNS L-trypt in the horse and whether supplementation would cause a rise in the deficient CNS serotonin in the horse is conjectural as far as I know.
DrO
New Member:
jlatzmd

Posted on Friday, Aug 7, 2009 - 12:31 pm:

In humans one theory is that when mood chemical building blocks are no longer made available to the brain, the brain then suffers the consequences. We believe that one endogenous source of such building blocks is adrenaline, which goes on to become noradrenaline (a mood neurotransmitter - NT - in and of itself) and serotonin (another mood NT). If a person is subjected to chronic stress, higher than normal levels of adrenaline metabolites can be measured in their serum, i.e. the adrenaline is being diverted to deal with the fight/flight/chronic stress making it less available as a resource for the brain. So, the theory goes, supplanting the CNS with medications that make the most of what NTs are still around, can help alleviate symptoms. Traditionally, these have been selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). These simply prevent the reuptake of released NTs (so that they can be used again)in order to let them linger longer in the synaptic cleft thus hopefully triggering the next neuron. However, SSRIs and all other "antidepressants" do little to raise the direct quantity of NTs. Thus, providing building blocks, e.g. L-tryp and/or 5-HTP and SAM-e, is one theoretical way of increasing quantity that may alleviate symptoms or at least give more "substrate" for the SSRIs to work with. Re our 21yo GFU T'bred gelding that now has an ulcer we believe is related to the stress of a new home/environment - we're using Gastrogard and I'm going to try and supplement with a steady source of L-tryp instead of any likely ineffective single boluses. I'll keep you posted.
Best,
John
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Friday, Aug 7, 2009 - 8:38 pm:

0Dear Dr. Latz,

I have argued this very point until I have been blue in the face. There are people out there that deal with an inherited imbalance of serotonin yet they do not realize that is what is wrong with them. Those people often end up self-medicating with alcohol having no idea that they suffer from a serotonin imbalance. Often, when treated as such, they no longer turn to alcohol because the SSRI medications now makes them feel normal, thus no more need to self-medicate with booze.

Knowing that, who can truthfully say that animals do not experience the same synDrOme? For quite a long time, I had a horse here that had awful mood swings that at the time, I could not explain. Knowing that dogs and people both benefit from SSRI medications, I toyed with why not a horse?

In the short end of a very long story, I found this horse to suffer from insulin resistance and his mood swings were tied directly to whether or not the IR was triggering a voracious "I'm starving, get out of my way" appetite. Once I found allll of his dietary triggers (limit grazing, Lite grain only and soak his hay), he made tremendous progress with his mood swings.

During my research (almost a year's worth), I also looked into L-tryptophan and how it plays into the metabolism of glucose. I did find contradicting articles out there however, with the guidance of a vet with a PhD in equine nutrition, we put him on 1600mg/daily....along with magnesium and chromium for the IR issues. With all of the above combined, this horse has made tremendous progress, to the point that I would hesitate to change any one thing as it seems to be the cumulative of them all that got us there.

In my lifetime, I have met several horses that were overly aggressive and they reminded me of people who flew off the handle at every little thing......because they suffered from a serotonin imbalance and weren't on or taking their medication. I have dealt with this issue to the point that I can almost peg the synDrOme in a person within 15 minutes of talking with them.....and I'm not a doctor....I just know it welll enough to be able to pick up on very suttle signs that most would never notice. This, brings me back to my original question---> If SSRI's work with people and dogs (and cats), why not with a horse given similar symptoms....situational or inherited?
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC