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Discussion on Vetericyn
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 8:58 pm:
Hi Doc O
any scientific proof or info on a product called Vetericyn? My hubby thinks it may be glorified pool chlorine.
Thanks
Leslie
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 7:02 am:
Hello leslie,
This is a product we have had questions about before and when trying to research it I run into the same wall I did before. The lack of specificity as to exactly what is in the product makes research impossible. I went to the human equivalent, Microsyn, and found a little more information. There is a diagram that implies the product forms chlorides and chlorates (oxygenated chlorine species) and manages to do this while being ph neutral and non-cytotoxic. This would be substantially different than pool chlorine which is extremely basic and very tissue toxic, at least at concentrations found in well chlorinated pools.
But even looking at the human product I find very little published research on the human product but what I find does suggest it is non-cytotoxic and has been recommended for diabetic ulcer treatment but the recommendation appears to be largely anecdotal.
DrO
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 8:24 am:
I wondered about that also Leslie. I keep seeing it on RFD.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 11:52 am:
Ideally what we would like to see are independently done experiments on actual horse wounds but I cannot even find this information on any kind of wounds. I wonder about the way they tend to talk around the actual pharmacology which appears to be an attempt to hide the formulation information. Never a good sign in my eyes but not a sign it does not work just keeps me from trying such a product. If anyone finds a guaranteed analysis or such information I would be glad to review it.
DrO
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 3:23 pm:
hehehe thats exactly what my hubby said DrO. Its a base and an acid...with a neutral PH (hence, the 'safe as water' talk...to which my hubby said...I bet the guy would put some on his wound...but wouldnt be willing to drink it;)
Also they mention its got 510(k) FDA approval which is 'medical device approval...not drug. And means that its (device) been that around since atleast the 70's. (my hubby went to grad school for Biomedical engineering so is very familiar with the medical device approval process.)
so hubby thinks the drug ingredients are simple(so they dont want to talk about them) and perhaps the method of delivery or container is what may be special about it...or may not...Hahaha. He hates this kind of obfuscation.
Thanks for your time
Leslie
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 6:09 pm:
I was told this was used successfully on many of our desert storm soldiers who would get hard-to-heal conditions when located in that challenging environment. Go to this link for some more information about it:
https://www.vetericyn.com/technology/
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 6:49 pm:
This site has some info on the human version.
https://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/05/67472
I believe it's name is based on a natural bacterial killing process discussed here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriocin
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 8:29 pm:
Thanks for posting this Sara.
I was thinking that it had been used for difficult-to-heal diabetic sores.
I heard a Vet talk about this product at an equine event and recall her describing making this stuff with a special machine to use for surgical wound healing. The problem with it was that it was only stable for an extremely short period of time. The Vetericyn product manufacturer found a way to greatly extend the shelf life (still not extensively long, but much more than the homemade stuff).
I got a free sample of it and used it on some early "scratches" with good results.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 10:28 am:
I had seen most of the above references. And find them all wanting in one way or another.
Some use analogous statements, it is like, to explain the actions. This is not really helpful. As to the 25 studies the company mentions in one of the references, they should put them on their site rather than the one in-vitro study that I could find. The other reference mentions superoxidized water but not the product by this company. And then on the vet page where they show a few chemical reactions the bottom of the page uses this disclaimer: "The preceding data is based upon testing done on the Microcyn Technology platform and does not necessarily infer that similar data would be generated in testing on various Microcyn-based products or formulas under development". What the heck does that mean?
Note that the bacteriocin reference is not a similar substance as it is peptide or protein based antimicrobial.
This may be a wonderful product but it is hard to understand why it is not better documented. Such wonders usually stand out in testing. If the product simply does not impair good healing it might appear miraculous as it is a wonderous process. I get wonderous results with a hose on some truly horrible wounds.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 11:15 am:
Agreed re: the hose and water.
I wonder about this product because it supposidly increases oxygen to the area, and with some wounds and some bacteria this should help the healing process.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 3:49 pm:
One could say that about peroxide as well...but....
hey, maybe we need an icon for the wonderous cure all of hose and water.
...now that would probably save DrO some typing time!!
and, heehehe a cartoon type Doctor figure that walks out, sighs and then holds up a sign that says 'go read article!' awwwww, that would be cute!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 - 8:37 am:
I like it!
DrO
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 - 12:06 pm:
Dr. O, you have a mission for Jan 1, 2010.
Three new icons--pulling hair out, rattle/chickenbones, and Dr. with sign.
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