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HorseAdvice.com » Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Oral Glucosamine, ChonDrOitin Sulfate, and Hyaluronic Acid, their use in Arthritis »
  Discussion on Oral Hyalun (hyaluronic acid)
Author Message
New Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:41 am:

Hi
I thought I had seen reference on this site to the effectiveness of hyaluronic acid taken orally, but I've searched and searched and can't find anything definite. Here in Canada there is a product called Hyalun 90 (as in 90 day supply), that is pure hyaluronic acid, or so the ad says. I can't find any information on it aside from it's own advertising. Does anyone have experience with using this, or something similar? Is the oral version as effective as the injectable? So far, I have only found one person who has used it, and that was on herself. She was a trainer who rode an average of 5 horses a day, and said that her arthritis was bad enough she couldn't do it anymore, but with the hyaluronic acid she was back to normal. I don't recall how often she used it, but this product in particular is advertised as something you give daily, and is supposedly ordorless and tasteless.
Michelle
Member:
Dres

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:51 am:

Michelle , if you find this product works i am right behind you in line to buy it... the injections are going up..( like everything else) its getting very costly to keep our competitive horses going and comfortable.. !~ Keep us/ me posted on what you find out.. * is there a web site for this.. ?

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:45 am:

Hi Ann
I haven't tried it yet, still just fighting with getting the Bute down my horse's throat. There is a website, it is www.hyalun.com. The place I first saw the ad was a catalog for a tack shop in Alberta, and it sells for $47.95 CA, or 3 for $43.95 ea. That's a 30 day supply each bottle. The 90 day size is $109.95.
Yesterday I did some surfing and found several places on-line to order Legend and Adequan IM. The cheapest place by far was www.canadapharmacy.com, have you compared prices there? Maybe the shipping is a pain, I really don't know.
Michelle
Member:
Dres

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 2:56 pm:

Michelle, I won't do the IV shots.. and Legend is IV... .. To tell you the truth i have tried an oral HA product before... and felt no difference in my horse... then i started the IV Legend shots.. and felt a HUGE difference in her, but , it only lasts a couple of weeks TOPS.. I spread the shots out every 6 weeks.. that is the most my husband will let me do.. so i am always searching for a oral product that will work..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:25 am:

Ok, What I do with my arthritic, navicular, Cushings QH mare, is Legend every 6 to 12 weeks, and dress her feed with the oral HA daily. I find that she can go longer in warm weather as far as the Legend is concerned. With the Legend, the clicks and pops in her joints are greatly reduced, and her movement is more fluid and comfortable. The way the Hyalun was explained to me was that it's not thought to do much of anything on it's own, but it may give some adjunctive boost and support to the Legend. Does it work? I don't know. My mare is comfortable now - more consistently comfortable than in the past. There was a time when she lived on almost daily doses of bute. She gets none now. But we don't ask much of her but gentle trail rides. I think the ability to have a horse out 24/7 is the most important thing. They have ample room to stretch their limbs and move around whenever necessary to
"get the kinks out". Frequent corrective shoeing is second. Glucosamine-chonDrOitin supplements, Legend, and Hyalurin are, maybe third. This is really just my opinion. Oh, she's been getting the hyaluron about 1 yr. and the Legend about 2 yrs. If this is what has helped her to get off regular bute, then I could probably call it a success....but I just don't know. I will continue this schedule - at least until the next disaster. Wish I could give you a better answer.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:57 am:

we used the oral HA when it first started coming out several years ago ("Conquest").. cant say as we saw any improvement from doing legend/GS supplements...
we ended up switching to some high quality herbal treatments and found the most success.. (sorry Dr.O)
however things have changed in the past several years and the new supp's may be better than before..
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:41 pm:

Well, I have bar shoes on the front feet on my QH, and it did help some. But he is still doing the limp at at the trot, (arthritis in coffin joint) and can't cross over on his front legs at any speed without it looking VERY uncomfortable (and this is in the pasture). Riding him is not really an option at all, as I tried last weekend, and even with the Bute, he was just wrong all over. He really tried, though, got to love that heart. He is on pasture 24/7, but I'd really like to find ways of improving him. I suppose as is, he could be a pasture pet without any meds, just good shoes, but I would really love to ride him, even if only now and again. The real kicker is that I haven't had him long, and he was nothing short of awesome when I rode him last fall. He had speed and power turns, everything you could ever want, and he really loved it when we went chasing cows for 2 days straight. Now he's just lame. I don't want to be putting a syringe of bute, or anything else, down his throat everyday as that just becomes a fight. I'm looking at any and all other alternatives. He's good at detecting the bute in his oats, and just won't eat them, so I'm going to try to find new ways to disguise it for when it's necessary.
Michelle
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 12:22 am:

Michelle,
There is bute paste. But they get to where they do not like that either. I am going to try buteless and see if it works. anyone else know about this product?
Happy Trials,
Wanda
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:33 am:

Michelle: I left out the fact that for years we have been riding her with sport medicine boots. I don't know if it is the overall support the boot provides, the warmth from the neoprene as it molds to her leg, or the support strap under the fetlock. The boots just work on her. She's had her boots since shortly after they came out. We use them only during our trail rides.

I've found with my arthritic horses that it seems best to keep them moving. Limited stall time, and regular, gentle, short trail rides on flat terrain with good footing - not too deep - seem to help the joints. Arena work is really out, and on the trails a brisk walk is usually as fast as we go. If the horse becomes uncomfortable during the ride, I'll get off and lead it home....believe me, I need the exercise 10 times more than any horse I own. I keep all turning to a minimum when I ride them. I kind of think that regular trail riding on good ground does 100% more for muscle tone, joint mobility and eradicating fluid collection in extremities than "turn out retirement" alone. And I may be way wrong here, but I think the human interaction and "sense of purpose" helps the horse's mind.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:24 am:

Hello Michele,
There continues to be no scientific or clinical research on the use of HA orally in humans or horses that I can find. We are not recommending its use orally.
DrO
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 11:17 am:

Lee, I think your exercise plan is good idea, especially the part about walking home if it becomes too much. Maybe the boots do work, too, if only to add warmth. I don't have arthritis, but my knees ache now and then, and it's always warmth that makes them feel better.

Dr. O, you have just summed up what I had found - no information, and how can you recommend something on that basis? Unfortunately, I think there is just not enough research on anything in the field of arthritis treatment for horses. Eventually, whether there is research or not, you listen to the people who say it did work, or it didn't work, and come up with your own plan to try/not try it yourself. I still don't know what I will do. The vet is now out of town, so I'm still waiting on him. I'm just going to have to continue to post my questions, hope for some replies, wait on the vet, and ride my other horse more. What other choice is there, right?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:28 am:

We recommend you follow our suggestions in the article associated with this forum which is backed up with the best science and experience we have at this time.
DrO
New Member:
Banthony

Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:32 am:

Michelle, I have very painful arthritis in my hands and started taking some HA myself to see if it would help.

As a talking guinea pig I can tell you that it really helped my mobility but not the pain.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:12 pm:

wanda
i've used buteless on and off in the past (now labelled "B-L solution" i think)
i honestly cant say that i saw any real improvement.. it seemed to be one of those things that the horse "was just feeling a bit better somedays" because the results were very inconsistent (and i had the opportunity to use it quite a bit)... never saw any harmful side effects tho, so i think the only thing it will hurt is your pocketbook (tho at the time it wasnt all taht expensive)
good luck
mel
Member:
Gailkin

Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 3:38 pm:

At the horse seminar I just attended at UC Davis vet school, they handed out a one page flyer with our bundle of information. It discussed oral use of HA and showed that the levels in the horse are much, much higher than with injections. I don't have the paper in front of me because I lent it to my trainer. Will try to locate it in 10 days after vacation and can give you more details about the exact product they were using, the dosages, etc. You might try contacting University of California Davis vet website for more info. I just remember it was many times higher than injections. Very surprising. They also had lots of new info on vaccines and pregnant mares and foals which was really interesting but will try to post it an another time. Gail
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 4:44 pm:

That IS very interesting information. I look forward to hearing from you later. Have a great holiday!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 7:35 am:

Gail was this flyer an advertisement? I have seen several misleading ones talking about absorption studies using radioactive labeled product. Doing a search on all the research / medical / veterinary journals in the world this morning, I do not see such information nor anything on clinical efficacy of such a product.
DrO
Member:
Gailkin

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 4:30 pm:

I am back from our two week working vacation. At least my horses were with us so it was more fun than usual. I have done a search today regarding the article I was given at UC Davis Equine Medicine Club seminar and can find nothing on the net except about the footnotes. So I emailed the Club asking for more info and will get back to you when they respond (ucdavisequinemedicineclub@yahoo.com). The page was entitled Serum Hyaluronic Acid Levels in the Horse After Oral and Intravenous Administration by Scott W. Pierce, DVM. The study says that ten horses were chosen for the study and divided into three groups. Baseline blood samples were taken on each horse at the beginning of the study. One group received 100 mg Hyaluronic acid daily in an oral gel preparation, the second a single dose of 40 mg of Hyaluronic acid, and the third was non-treated. Daily blood samples were drawn from each horse for seven days. Serum samples were submitted to the lab where the Quantitative Hyaluronic Acid Test Kit by Corgenix was used. The oral HA group had the highest level of serum Hyaluronic acid. The oral group was the only group to have a substantial increase in serum HA by day seven (18% over baseline). The oral group rose from 82 ng/ml to 97 ng/ml. The intravenous group had a slight elevation by day four, 78 ng/ml to 80 ng/ml; then by day seven, the HA level decreased to below the baseline value. The conclusion says the use of oral HA had a serum enhancing effect on circulating HA. Circulating HA has been shown to be 10 to 100 ng/ml with a half-life of two days or less (cites 2 studies by Laurent TC & Fraser JR). Therefore, daily supplimentation with HA is necessary to increase the serum levels of HA. Then there is an interesting table: the baseline of the oral and intravenous are about the same about 80; at day 4 the oral DrOps to 60 but the intravenous stays the same. But at day 7 the oral rises to 97 whereas the intravenous DrOps to 40, way below the original baseline.
The author does not seem to be a member of the UC faculty. Can't find him on the net, so I hope I get more info from the Club people. This was a very small study although sounds interesting. I would be happy to fax this sheet to anyone who is interested. Dr. O do you have a fax number. Hope this helps all who are interested. I will let you know when I hear more. Gail
Member:
Dres

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 4:50 pm:

Gail thanks for the report.. I was at UCD last week but in the ICU for foals.. I asked the attending vet about the study.. She had not heard of it or the paper.. But that is not to say it was not done accourding to her..Please let us know more if you can.. ..as the injections are costly.. and if they are only lasting a few days.. >???

On the first day God created horses , on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 5:28 pm:

very interesting. Thanks Gail
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 6:06 pm:

Is there anything in this report regarding improvement to the horse at these levels? It sounds great, no doubt about it, but my lay-person's mind is not informed enough to know if there is more reading between the lines to be done, or if this just means oral is better and lets all throw away the syringe and needles.

Thanks, Gail, for posting so much information and continuing to research it. I also looked it up on the net based on your first post, and had no luck at all.
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 7:59 pm:

Dr. Scott Pierce is at Rood & Riddle, in Kentucky, and is part of the team that created Conquer, an oral hyaluronic gel.

When I talked to him years ago--when they were just starting out with Conquer-- and Kinetic technologies was little more than a glimmer in their eyes <g>, he told me that it was a trip to Japan for some conference that led him to believe that horses could utilize joint supplements orally...that the technology being used tin Japan to measure such things was far ahead of what we had/have here.

Whether the research in the article cited above 'proves' anything useful, I do not know.. I am one of those who am on the fence about anything oral being useful--but I cross my fingers and have all my performance horses on oral joint supplements.

sheepish ha ha.

anyway--to contact Scott Pierce:
Scott W. Pierce, DVM -Research and Development
877-786-9882 - office
859-258-9177 - correspondence fax
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 6:55 am:

Gail I would like to see the paper and our fax number is 336-643-0833.
DrO
Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 10:21 am:

Gail, So what product have you decided to use if any.. ?

Dr. O was Gail able to send you the paper..? If so what do you think..

I am going to switch back to oral.. I am beginning to feel the Legend shots are not worth it anymore.. It could be that this is something i will have to do from time to time.. switch from one form to another, mix it up..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 4:29 pm:

Ladies,

Are you sure your horses' problems are arthritic? I know that I sure thought so for a couple of years with one of mine and just found out that it was in fact a soft tissue problem. See the thread on neurectomy.

I spent a bundle on this particular horse with joint supplements and nothing really helped his on again off again lameness. Now that I know arthritis wasn't the problem, it makes sense.

I suspect that many of us assume arthritis as a cause and go immediately to joint supplements in the absence of a real diagnosis. I'm not being critical of that since I've done exactly the same thing, just pointing out that if a "remedy" doesn't work, maybe we're not addressing the real problem.

Chris
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 4:49 pm:

I've been following this thread closely waiting for Dr. O's response. My boy does have djd as evidenced by xrays over a 3 year period, and I'm hoping to hear about something that is actually proven to work besides cosequin.
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 5:02 pm:

Chris,
Happened to me also, or rather my now deceased horse. Messed around with what was thought to be arthritis of the fetlock joint, etc., etc., possible deterioration of the navicular bone, etc. Should have had x-rays from the git go - was laminitis with a sinking coffin bone!
I even went with the injections - big bucks only to find out it was like locking the barn door after the horse ran away. Sad. I'll never go that route again. Lesson learned.
Shirl
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 9:01 am:

Ann I received the fax and looked over the work and found the results not significant. Yes the oral hyaluronate had an increase in circulating levels but the level of increase and the variations in the control and injected horse levels were all of similar magnitudes: it is uncertain if this indicated a medication increase and if it does it is unknown if this would be clinically helpful. It's use should be considered experimental.
DrO
Member:
Mleeb

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 9:53 am:

Dr. O, I mentioned oral HA to my vet and his comment was similar to one I've read before, possibly on this site, which was that the molecular chain is so long that there is more chance of the HA ending up in the manure pile than in the joints and other areas of the body. With so many different brands of HA out there, is it possible that some have smaller molecules therefore increasing absorbtion, or would that change the structure of HA to the point that it is no longer HA?
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 11:18 am:

I personally use HA 100mg a day for my joints. I must say it works wonders for me. For a long time the only way to get the benefits from HA was injection, then about 4 years ago the Japanese found a way to process the HA so it could be absorbed by the body. The Hyalun you are discussing only has 20mg I used this on an old horse that was lame with moderate results, then I thought if I can take a 100mg and not have any adverse problems why not try a higher dose on Rex, so I began giving him crush tablets equal to 100mg a day, and I began to see real results he started running around like a six year old. Sadly he died at 28, but I know from his actions that he was comfortable. I have younger horses now and I still use HA and I can tell when I miss a couple of days doses. I purchase my HA for $19.99 for 240 50mg tablets. This is a cost effective way to purchase if someone wanted to try it.
Member:
Cpacer

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 1:32 pm:

Judith, does the Japanese processed HA have a special label or indicator?

I've seen some HA face creams and lip balms being marketing as great wrinkle treatments. They sound pretty convincing, you think they work?
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 2:20 pm:

CP,
The Japanese process is used by all manufacturer's of the Oral HA we see today. It isn't a brand of HA. Here is the website I order mine from. Then use the product pull down and look for Hyaluronic Acid.
https://www.doctorstrust.com
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 2:27 pm:

CP, Sorry I forgot you second part of the question. Yes I think HA works for me. I only use the tablets. I have noticed a great improvement in my joint movement. I'm 51 and I don't have any popping in my joints when I bend my knees, or any pain in my joints that would be expected when you're over 50.
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