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  Discussion on Excenel used for horses?
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New Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 7:47 pm:

HELP
My vet is a good small town farm vet, my 11 month old filly who I have been treating for a de-gloved leg for 3+ months now seems to have an infection setting into her growth plate/hock on her OTHER leg. I called out another vet, who has a high -tech x-ray and he trouble shot the infection and told me to get some Naxel. When I went to my home vet to get the Naxel, he suggested that I put her on chloramphenicol palmitate. I joined this web site to look up the dosage amount that I should be giving her (so I need that answered) and I read about both antibiotics and see that the Naxel mentions treating bone infection and the chloramphenicol palmitate does not! What to do my vet talked me into purchasing 3 tubs of this at $25 a tube, and I was going back to purchase more monday after I can come up with more $$, can I give her the chloramphenicol for 3-5 days then switch her to the Naxcel for the next 5 days until the "other" vet wants to re-check the infection??
Thanks'
Kelli
New Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Saturday, Apr 1, 2006 - 7:54 am:

I am going to answer my own question, and found the chloramphenicol does treat the bone infection but I am still concerened about the dose, initally I wanted to save money and not give her 40cc 2x daily as my vet recommended. so I started reading I have found that usually 15-26cc are given, I figure that is for a full grown horse, mine is a half grown yearling, about 600-700lb. The label also says 45-60mg per kg of the horses body weight, this transcribes (using simple numbers for ease) if I give her 50mg and assume she is 600lb (or approx 300kg) that equals 1500mg the chloramphenicol contains 312mg/cc which = less than 5cc per dose or per day. I dosed her with 15cc last night and am going to continue 15cc 3x day. Also one vet put her on surpass and suggested to continue bute although you are not supposed to mix the 2. The other vet suggested Tramadol 50mg 3 tablets 2x day. I think I would like the tramadol better because she has been on so much bute, will it upset her stomach and can you use tramadol with surpass?
Thanks a bunch
Kelli
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 9:14 pm:

Hello Kelli,
We suggest that you use the doses and frequencies we publish though instead of using low side estimates on weights, I would use the high sides. Can you tell me what is in your tramadol? I am unfamiliar with the name.
DrO
New Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 9:20 am:

I cannot seem to find anything that is published. I have been giving 15-20cc 3x day of chloramphenicol according to the product insert I should be giving about 5cc. My vet said to give 40cc 2x day and I had a friend question it because it seemed like alot that is why I looked it up.
Tramadol Hcl 50mg is an anti inflamitory.
I am putting surpass on her hock and wonder is the Tramadol can be given with that instead of the bute.
Thanks
Kelli
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 1:19 pm:

You will find our recommended doses for at Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Chloramphenicol. I went and researched tramadol, found it is an opiate and would not recommend you use this on your horse. There has been some research used epidurally in horses but nothing with oral dosing.
DrO
New Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 8:12 am:

I am sorry, yes I did find the doses, but the chloramphenicol that I got was a paste and can only find the dosage for salt and injection. Also the tramadol is in a tablet form. Thanks
KElli
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 3:04 pm:

The salts refers to the chemical the chloramphenicol is complexed with and your paste is also likely one of these salts.
DrO
New Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 3:57 pm:

Thanks a bunch,
ok, here is my leg...week stomachs should not look.
This happened in December 2005 and now in April, more problems arrise. Please I'll take any advise. My filly (11months now) has seen 4 vets. the first was a specialist who treated her injury initally and has told me after the bone is completly covered which hind site was the easiest to do... to let it air and dry and scab. My farm vet was out of the country for the whole month of December and January so I kept with the specialist until I really got worried about the swelling and the proud flesh. I called another vet out, (my regular was still on vacation)because this vet could come to my house and the specialist was 3hr away. She cut the proud flesh, she also thought it was too much. Mid February my regular vet was back, we did an "a-cell" treatment February 14, March 29 we were again blessed with too much proud flesh and decided to call the "a-cell" a failure. Meanwhile the hock on her other leg started to swell and my vet said to get her in for exray, but could not do it for a few weeks. I felt this was too long, so I took her to another vet that had high tech digital exray. He told me that the growth plate was either infected or epethisis (?) so to be precaucious we treated her for the infection and she will be seen in 10 days for progress. Her injured leg (the first one) is exremely swollen and has been since february. I have swetted it much.... vet #2 says after the injury starts to heal, the improved blood flow should help with the swelling... vet #4 says get the swelling down and keep the injury moist and wrapped.....remember vet #1 said to let it dry and scab! UHHH She has been on and off antibiotics and on and off (mostly on) bute for 4 + months. We are going to try hair plugs next week. Did I mention that she also severed her extensor tendon.... as you can tell by the photo!
Again any past experiences will be listed to!
Kelli
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 4:00 pm:

I cannot seem to be able to post a photo of this leg, but to explain, the cannon bone was completly stripped of all skin 3/4 of the way around and about 8-10 inches long... almost from her ankle to her hock. She was a little over 6 months old. Now the injury is about the size of a soccer ball and the proud flesh continues.
Member:
Rein

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 11:10 pm:

Hi Kelli,

We raise cutting horses and have about 75 so I've seen and treated a few. I too had a severed tendon. We made a special shoe, but it dosen't sound like you need that. I have never yet had a cut get proud flesh, but you must keep this up. Colloidal silver (from health store) spray on then I put green wound cream (a pen. cortizone cream that vets make) I then cover this with telph pads and tensor (cheaper then vet wrap) then a fleece over it all. I too used to let them scab but have never had near the results as wrapping. I will wrap as long as it takes. If the wound is still big and exposed to air it will swell. I know they say the cut needs air but I've never had proud flesh problems ar in case of scarring a hard one. When it's healing and is itchy lanolin works great and I'll just put this on before the other. Also magnets are a great to get blood moving thus healing quicker. I'll just wrap them into the wrap. Hopes this makes sense, if not let me know.
Michelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 6:28 am:

Let see if we can get a photo up. Go to News & Help » Uploading Images and Files Into a Posting for a complete description of the procedure and how to deal with common problems.

Michelle's post above is reasonable but the magnets do not have any known benefit on wound healing, so save your money there. To see how I would recommend you take care of this injury see, i{Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Wounds / Burns » Long Term Deep Wound Care} and be sure to follow the link to the Proud Flesh article.
DrO
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 10:54 am:

I am too computer illiterate.....
Following the instructions, I still cannot get the photos down to the correct size and can't even find them when I do down size them. I can send them via e-mail if you would like to try.... frustrating.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 11:04 am:

Kelli, what operating system do you have?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 11:05 am:

I really should refer you to HTG!, our honorary tech guy, Alden . . . He is faster than a dial-up and can solve computer photo posting issues in a single bound . . .
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 11:28 am:

I am trying to work off an easy share program.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 8:59 am:

Kelli,
Download one of the programs we recommend and see if these might work better for you.
DrO
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 10:53 am:

I did, it doesn't. I have photos in it and have reduced them as far as the program will let me, still not small enough and can't find them in the browse anyway if they were small enough. oh well
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 4:09 pm:

Kelli: Don't give up, please! I think we all want to see the photos!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Apr 8, 2006 - 9:36 am:

Kelli be sure you read the instructions, these programs work, you just have to learn to use them and you can do it! Since we allow photos whose file size is up to 64k this is a generous amount of space for a jpeg or gif and you should not have trouble producing sharp photos 500 (recommended width to prevent lapping to the right) pixels wide. If your program is like what I use you save your modified image to the directory of your choosing but this will be explained in the instructions.
DrO
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 12:49 pm:

Sorry, tried 3x changed sizes changed file types, give up, too busy for this frustration.
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 4:25 pm:

Let me enlighten what is in the photo. My filly stripped her leg from just below the hock to just above the ankle, the bone exposed was 8-10 inches long and 3/4 around her leg. She had one strip about 1/2 inch thick that covered her tendons in the back of her leg. The bone covered itself in about 1 month, changing the bandage daily and applying nitro fursion to the bone as to not let it dry up. After the bone was covered, I started with schrieners and changing the bandage every 48 hours. The leg specialist vet told me to let it dry and don't even wash it because he wanted it to dry. I still washed it once in a while. Then I tried the a-cell treatment..... a-cell is $200 for a 3x7 cm size sheet, that is cm not inch..... it took 6 to cover plus vet cost. I was told to leave it untreated and only saline rinse for 6 weeks..... 6 weeks later all I did was trim a massive amout of proud flesh off at which point she had swelling in the OPPOSITE hock. This has ended up being a growth plate problem (infection?). She is on 15cc Naxcel and 2x per day flushing the wound with warm water and cold water flush on the swollen hock, Of course I am not mentioning the surpass, bute, dermagel etc.... x-rays yesterday showed the hock was not getting worse and the pain seems to be going/gone... good thing. Next week we are going to try hair plugs to try to get the wound to heal quicker hence lessening the stress in the opposite leg..The opposite leg is more of a soundness issue then the injured leg at this point! Who'd have figured! I could write a chapter of a equine medical book now.
I can e-mail someone photos if you would like to try to download them for me but I have taken all advise and instructions and nothing seems to be working. I have downloaded both photo programs and have my photos on them, in gif format and they measure 467pixels x 6?? pixels I have reduced the sizes in half twice and am still getting an error.
Mostly now I need some prayers and luck. The vet that I am working with now seems to be on the right track.
Kelli
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 - 8:53 am:

Though we prefer pictures smaller than 500 pixels wide (about 1/2 of most folks screens), Kelli, the size of the image is not a critical matter, it is the size of the file of the image that must be less than 64 kilobytes. Start with the original and see if you can reduce the size of the file first. I use a different program that those offered for free so am not certain exactly how that is done in those programs.

Certainly you have our prayers and you should look at our recommendations for caring for wounds at Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Wounds / Burns.
DrO
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 4:22 pm:

paiges leg
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 4:23 pm:

OH GOOD LORD I DID IT!!
Now I will post a photo of what the leg looks like now
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 4:26 pm:

Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 4:39 pm:

YEAAAA I am a pro now!
Acutally this leg looks much better over the last 10days than even it did when this photo was taken.
This leg however is not my problem at the moment. I know that this is going to take months to heal.
I am currently dealing with epiphysis in her opposite leg - hock and have been wondering the past few days if maybe the epiphysis is going into this leg as well.
Please advise me on epiphysis. She has been on Naxcel for 9 days and I am going to give her the last of it today. She is getting really grouchy getting all of these shots. The heat in the hock
If need be I'll get her on tucoprin.
X-rays of the epiphysis shows that it has not worsened in 10 days, that is a good thing.
I am taking her for skin graph monday, hopefully this will take some of the extra weight bearing off the other leg so the epiphysis will heal. She has a lateral extention on the other leg as well. It is hard to describe because I now have to call both of her legs "bad".
Please give me information on epiphysis. I have read the article the Dr. O wrote and would like some personal experiences. She is confined to a stall right now. I get her out 2x day and walk her and treat both legs. Cold water/ surpass on the epiphysis hock and warm water, derma-gel, and bandage on the injury.
My understanding is that her exercise should be monitored. Since she is 11 month old, I try to let her go into a small paddock for 10-15 minutes, but is seems that all she wants to do is run jump buck and kick!
She doesn't know that she is hurt.
Thanks a bunch
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 5:51 pm:

Congrats on the photo Kelli. You have read my advice on epiphysitis do you have any specific questions on my recomendations? The most important information is how bad are the lesions and what do they believe is the cause of epiphysitis? If you can get the digital radiographs of the lesions I would be glad to comment more specifically.

The recommendations in our article on long term wound care is quite a bit different than that you received from your veterinarian. Besides the daily plan with such a leg would be to surgically remove the excessive and mature granulation tissue without uncovering the bone so that a fresh bed of granulation tissue can promote skin growth over the area. This would be true also if you plan to do transplants, they need the rich blood supply new granulation tissue can provide. Letting the granulation tissue dry and scab will result in the granulation tissue to mature and a larger scar will form because the granulation tissue will mature quicker in my opinion. I would discuss this further with your vet.
DrO
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Sunday, Apr 16, 2006 - 3:09 am:

Great picture Kelli!!!
Ugly wound Kelli!!!

Thanx for hanging in there - hope you can keep us updated.
Member:
Kjelrod

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 - 5:19 pm:

17 days after the epiphysitis has been diagnosed, the fever is less in the hock and the soarness seems to be less. New x-rays were taken at 10 days and showed no worse that the origional. We assume the epiphysitis was caused by stress on that leg trying to give additional support due to the injured leg. Not knowing any better, thinking that I was doing the filly good, I was giving her high stress vitimans and 16% grain. This also may have added to the cause, also she was contained into a stall for more than a month and then turned out into a paddock, that probibally didn't help either. Anyway it is all in her growth plate. We did hair plugs yesterday on a portion of the injury. Hope that helps the healing process. Comming along I think, need patients.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 1:02 pm:

Hello Kelli,
While researching tramidol on the site I can to this discussion and wondered how did your wound turn out?
DrO
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