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  Discussion on Sarcoids
Author Message
Member:
Hally

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 5:44 pm:

Dr O,

My 6 yr old gelding has a sarcoid under his chin and one on his neck. Both came about after having the skin damaged by him acting goofy in the pasture. The injuries were superficial however thats how these ugly sarcoids came to be. I have read up on the traditional methods of dealing with these things and my vet at home says most of the time they just leave them alone as they tend to re-appear even sometimes large if you much around with them!

Is there anything holistic that I could put topically on them?
Member:
Hally

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 5:49 pm:

Correction to sentence!"even sometimes LARGER if you MUCK around with them!

Sorry... I read to fast and then have diarrhea of the posting finger!!
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 8:19 pm:

There are a number of different types of sarcoids. First you need to determine which kind they are. Some respond well to certain treatments, while others can be made worse by them.
Here is a website with photos of the different types. https://pcwww.liv.ac.uk/sarcoid/question4.htm . This is at least a starting point. From what I know, they are a virus that will always be in the horse's system, so they can and likely will always come back. The key is in not agravating a benign sarcoid into becoming a malignant one, hence the determination of the type of sarcoid, and then learning about what treatments are the safest and most effective for that particular kind.
Dr.O, please correct me if I am wrong on any of what I post. I, too have a horse with an occult sarcoid on his ventral side. I was able to get rid of it two years ago with XXterra, but it came back 6 months ago, and I couldn't get rid of it. My vet did a biopsy to determine that it had not morphed into something else. In the process of taking the biopsy, a large part of it was excised. It's still there. It seem the XXterra no longer has the effect it did , two years ago.
Member:
Hally

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 10:38 pm:

Thanks for the great web site Stenella! The closest example I can find that would match what my horse has is Verrucose Sarcoids. I am a bit worried now after reading the rest of the information as he is 6 and has had them for about 3 yrs without me doing anything but putting vaseline on them to soften the tissue up. I dont know if that is a good or bad thing? What do you think Dr O? They sure are ugly things!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 12:03 am:

Stenella, great site.
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 12:25 am:

You're welcome.
According to https://pcwww.liv.ac.uk/sarcoid/question7.htm " In general cell stimulators such as Allovera are contraindicated and Tea tree oil can be very dangerous. ".
I have read this several places regarding aloe vera. I would suggest you become proactive and educated about your horse's sarcoids. If your vet isn't interested or knowledgeable about them, contact your nearest vet school. I'm sure they will have the necessary knowledge to help you.
I don't know if the XXterra is the right course of action for that particular kind. You could certainly contact them at https://www.vetlineequine.com/
Personally, my feeling is that to ignore them is not a smart thing to do. Management is key, for the longevity and health of the horse. You can do a search on that particular type, but I would limit my info to vetschool abstracts and qualified research data, not questionable testimonials.
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 12:30 am:

Another site with not the latest data on them is https://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/5/1055#SEC9

see Treatment of Sarcoids
"Currently, there is no effective therapy for the treatment of sarcoids. Some clinicians have reported pragmatic success with topical unlicensed applications (Knottenbelt & Walker, 1994). Other commonly employed treatments include cryotherapy, excision and local immune modulation (Goodrich et al., 1998).

Efficacy of different treatments is difficult to assess because most studies have not been controlled and are based on referral populations of horses treated at major clinics or veterinary hospitals. Such referral populations may not represent the overall tumour population in the field but a subset of fast growing, recurrent or multiple tumours that veterinary practitioners in the field have been unable to treat successfully. Conversely, many private practitioners treat sarcoids successfully by a policy of non-intervention, which again may represent a specific population of sarcoids that remain quiescent or the rare spontaneous regressors and there is some anecdotal evidence for this (Goodrich et al., 1998).

Sarcoids frequently display hyperproliferation or recurrence if treated by surgical excision, which has led some to speculate that this could be due to activation of latent BPV in apparently normal tissue surrounding the lesion. Martens et al. (2001a) used PCR to test for BPV in sarcoids removed by surgery and also tested apparently normal skin around the sarcoids. They found BPV in all of the sarcoids and also in the surrounding normal skin. The frequency of detection of BPV in the normal skin decreased as the resection margin was increased. They also found that animals with a surgical margin containing BPV had a greater probability to show local recurrence. These observations agree with the results of a study that examined the inducement of tumour development by trauma in an experimental model. Siegsmund et al. (1991) used a laboratory strain of the rodent Mastomys natalensis, which carries an endogenous latent papillomavirus (MnPV), to show that when the skin of these animals was irritated by scratching with glasspaper, hyperproliferation of the epidermis and amplification of viral DNA occurred, with virus-producing papillomas induced in 27 % of the animals."
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 12:39 am:

LLV, I just came across this

2. Verrucous (warty) sarcoid:
These lesions have a rough hyperkeratotic
appearance and scaling over limited or wider
areas of the body. Most often this type is seen
on the face, body and groin/sheath areas. Ex-
tensive areas can be affected and are often sur-
rounded by an area of slightly thickened
/changed skin (possibly reflecting a surround-
ing area of early occult sarcoid) with altered,
thin hair-growth pattern.
Individual lesions may be sessile (flat-
based) or pedunculated (with a narrow
neck) giving a true wart like appearance -
indeed this type is probably the source of
the name “wart” on horses. The name is of
course misleadingly benign for a potentially
dangerous condition. The lesions are most
often slow growing and not very aggressive
until injured/insulted. However, small nod-
ules may appear at any stage or over any
area of the affected skin. These may devel-
op a true fibroblastic character whether or
not they are insulted or traumatised. Rub-
bing, biopsy, partial excision or minor or
major trauma to the surface commonly re-
sults in a dramatic change to fibroblastic
sarcoid over variable areas of the lesion.
The verrucose sarcoid can be mistaken
for papillomatosis (true warts), chronic blis-
tering, severe chronic rubbing or irritation
such as can be seen in a few cases of sweet
itch)

from : https://www.ivis.org/proceedings/SIVE/2003/lectures/knottenbelt2.pdf#search=%22sk in%20neoplasia%3A%20sarcoid%20by%20D%20C%20Knottenbelt%22


Good luck to you and your horse.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 7:16 am:

Hello LLV,
I am uncertain what you mean by holistic but we do discuss Sarcoids in detail and review the known effective treatments at Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases » Bumps / Nodules / Warts / Tumors » Sarcoid. This article does contain the most recent information available. You will also find there several discussions about Xterra cream.
DrO
Member:
Hally

Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 1:02 pm:

Has anyone heard of using Efudex? I phoned my clinic and it is a topical ointment they use for sarcoids.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 8:20 am:

It sounds like a 5-floruracil product (often referred to as 5-FU) LLV which we cover in the article I reference above. Check to see if that is the active ingredient.
DrO
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