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Discussion on How hard is it to overcome the gray gene?
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 12:23 pm:
Overcoming the grey gene...My friends Grey Iberian warmblood mare was bred to a PRE bay stallion. The mares parents : 1 was grey, one was bay. I dont know anything about the stallion other than he is bay. My friend is hoping the filly stays bay. Were betting a dollar on it at my hubbys work lol. I bet on grey just cuz. heres pic of baby.
https://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/leslie645/miaandtesara-1.jpg
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 12:28 pm:
Sorry the pic is so small. cant figure out how to make it biggr
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 12:56 pm:
I'm confused, is the mare pregnant or are you asking if the bay filly in the picture is going to turn grey? Which incidentally I would very much doubt that a bay filly turn grey.
She is not a Lipizzaner is she?!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 1:33 pm:
Sorry, The question is about the bay filly in the picture. Dam is 1/2 Andalusian and 1/2 dutch warmblood. The sire of the filly is pre andalusian. So the filly is 3/4 Andalausian and 1/4 dutch warmblood.
I thought sometimes the Andy's were born dark but greyed out as they aged.
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Member:
tuckern
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 1:52 pm:
I would bet that the filly turns gray, because gray is such a dominant gene.
Nicole
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 2:03 pm:
Leslie,
MMM Me thinks you are confusing Andalusia’s with Lippy's
I would suggest that you change your bet to bay!
Liliana
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 3:48 pm:
When talking color it doesn't matter at all what breed the horses are.
Gray is dominant only in the sense that gray cannot hide like agouti in chestnut for example,
if a gray gene is passed from a gray parent the baby will be gray.
If neither parent is gray the baby will not be gray.
The rate at which a horse turns gray varies greatly from horse to horse but since gray is a modifier that goes overtop a base color the horse can be born any color.
Since the sire is bay, he can't pass a gray gene, the mare is gray, since she comes from only one gray parent can only be heterozygous for gray, she can only pass one gray gene; so there is a 50/50 chance the baby could be gray.
The picture is to small for me to see if the baby shows 'goggles' around his eyes, typically one of the first signs a baby will gray.
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Member:
boomer
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 5:24 pm:
I bet gray.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 6:32 pm:
50/50 on the gray.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 7:14 pm:
The following website has good color genetic info on it for those who are interested.
https://www.equinecolor.com/color.html
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 9:18 pm:
thx guys looks like a 50/50 chance.
sara I really liked that website. was easy to read and understand. thx
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Member:
canyon28
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 17, 2007 - 12:54 pm:
A foals that grey out are born another color. Your mare is heterozygous for grey, so she will pass the grey gene half of the time, on average. I bet she was a bay under the gray, if possible it would be nice to know what color she was born.Having said that, I owned a gray mare (sorrel to gray)that had five or six foals and none of them but the last one turned gray, if the others did, they grayed out as they got older because I sold all of them, most after they were two or so, which can happen. Some horses are very slow to grey out, others you can see the gray as soon as the foal coat starts to shed around the eyes.
anyhow, half of the mares foals will be gray, unless she is she is bred to another gray, then I think 75% of her foals would be gray, 25% of the 75% would be homozygous gray, the other 50 would be hertozygous gray, then the remaining 25% would be non gray.
the gray gene must be passed for it to be inheritied. If the gray gene is passed, the horse will turn gray, other wise it did not inherit the gray gene. If its there, it will show. so if the filly stays bay, then she did not inherit any gray gene.
chris www.canyonrimranch.net
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Friday, Feb 20, 2009 - 3:49 pm:
So what color did the foal turn out to be now that some time has passed?
I own a PSL, and her dam is grey with genes for chestnut and bay, her sire is also grey and has a long-distance gene for bay. She was born pitch-black and I have owned her since she was 2.5 months old. She will be 3 this spring and still is a brown-black horse (more brown in the summer) but last fall when her winter fur was starting to grow in she showed her "true-colors" she will gry, but very very slow.
All other foals turned grey by age 6 months, only one chestnut had been born before, all the same parents ;-) I was hoping for the black-brown ;-)
Miriam
PS: do you have photos????
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 10:12 am:
Hi Miriam
I emailed my friend and got a reply today: The filly is still a 'seal' bay!!! I guess I lost the bet, hehehe, sorta lost track of it when we moved. She will be 2 this spring. I didnt get any pics.
I would love to see pics of yours though!!!
cheers
L
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 12:05 pm:
That is awesome that she stayed a bay...I wished mine would stay dark 
I will post some pic's from home, don't have access from work 
mim
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 3:22 pm:
Leslie, don't pay that bet just yet. Some horses don't grey out until 3 or 4...
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Member:
rorien
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 5:04 pm:
At what age is it safe to say that a horse won't grey out, or is there one?
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 5:39 pm:
Yes, just look at mine, going on 3 and still dark, but showing the first signs of greying (close-up) 
1. July 08, 2.Aug 08, 3. Dec 08
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 5:42 pm:
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 7:30 pm:
Mim,
First off...she is lovely! Have you started her yet? She looks like she is going to be that wonderful shade of steel grey that I like so much. I know greys are hard to keep clean but boy, they sure look fantasic when they are!(IMO)
Cheers and THX for the pics
leslie
hehehehe, maybe I will win that bet yet!
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 8:39 pm:
Hi Leslie,
I am curious to see what "shade" she will turn out to be
I haven't started her yet, ground-work probably this fall, and riding only spring 2010. These types of warmbloods mature physically and mentally very slow, so I do want to give her mind and body all the chance to mature before getting on her
Can't wait though 
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 8:46 pm:
Ps: Hi Nicole,
I have met a Lusitano mare that looked like she would stay a black-bay and only at age 6 did she started to show some grey, and dapples within her black-brown coat. She is 12 today, and still is very dark, many dapples...I think it is difficult to say if there is a certain age or not, but take my filly for example all her full brothers/sisters greyed by age 6 months old (with the exception of one chestnut that remained that way)
This is my fillies' full sister 6 months old
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Member:
huf5
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 8:47 pm:
This is my filly at 3 weeks and six months
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 10:04 pm:
Thought I would share photos showing the change in two different grays over a period of about 5 years. It is been an education to watch Maggie, who was born bay, change to dark bay, then to a dark bay roan . . . and now, slowly, become more gray. She shows lots of brown on her nose and on her flanks. Still more roan than gray, but it will be interesting to see what her summer coat looks like at age 7.
Maggie's mom at age 4 in 2003
Maggie at One Year in 2003
Maggie at Three Years in 2005
Maggie at 4 years in 2006
Maggie's dam at age 6 and 1/2
Maggie with our own Denny Taylor, June 2008
Maggie's dam (age 8) with our own Angie, June 2008
Maggie in October 2008, 6 and 1/2 years
Maggie's dam, Eeyore, was a dapple gray at age 3, but Maggie doesn't show any dapples.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 10:17 pm:
Wow, I had no idea that greys could take so long before they showed signs of turning grey.
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Member:
tpmiller
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2009 - 7:39 am:
Have seen an Arabian Bay at age 5 commence turning grey just after his 6th birthday.
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2009 - 9:04 am:
Discussion above does not mention that a double dose of the grey gene in one parent is always dominant, no exceptions (unfortunately) in my understanding...
Imogen
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2009 - 11:10 am:
You're right Imogen, if a parent has two copies(alleles) of gray the gray will certainly be passed on. Since gray is dominant, one copy is always expressed. Gray affects any and all colours.
Some things we know about gray, like one parent must be gray; but some things are still theory.
I have read a theory that the grays that turn quickly are homozygous but I don't think that is correct because my filly can only have one copy(one gray parent) and she was noticably gray when she shed her baby coat. ( I realize one example does not prove anything)
I have also read there is a theory that the fleabitten characteristic is separate from the the gray gene.
Not all horses that are gray will exhibit fleabitten characteristics or dapples for that matter.
Another point of conjecture is whether flank roaning, esp roaning that increases with age, is related to the gray gene.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2009 - 11:39 am:
Timothy, were you able to keep track of the gray Arab? I am wondering how much gray it showed and if it continued to progressively gray?
Interesting.
thanks
Lori
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