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  Discussion on Post Ovulation Insemination
Author Message
Member:
Lisabeth

Posted on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 1:19 pm:

Dear Dr. O,

After having my vet out yesterday afternoon to breed one of my mares, shipped semen in hand, I heard the dreaded words "she has already ovulated".

This was a mare who has historically gone a full 6 days "in" and off a 5.5 follicle. She was on day 4, and when checked the prior day was at 3.8.

I have ready your excellent article "Ovulation Prediction and Timing Insemination" and of course understand that even with the best of records and technology we can sometimes be fooled.

Upon breeding, the vet reported the mares cervix was "wide open". Also, blood was visible in the egg follicle when viewed via ultrasound.

I know I still have a slight chance of a post ovulation fertilization. My questions are these: About how long does it take before the mares cervix begins to tighten and close? (Hoping "wide open" is an indication she had just ovulated). Also, how soon after ovulation does the follicle fill with blood, prior to becoming the CL yellow mass? I read somewhere immediately, and somewhere else 24 hours.

Thanks very much!

Lisa
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 3:57 pm:

The fact the cervix was still very relaxed is a good sign. I spent some time studying the question about judging the time of ovulations from the appearance of the CL and this seems very hard to do: there is a wide degree of variation in normal of the appearance of the CL at any time.

Every year a mare or two slips past us and seems to be necessary in todays AI world with only every other day collection and almost every one wanting to know when you are going to need semen 3 days before it is likely to arrive. That means they want a warning the day before collection, a call the morning of collection to confirm, and then it is overnighted to you. We assume all follicles are going to grow at 3mm a day and order semen whenever waiting for the next shipment will put the projected follicle size over 40 mm. To back our standards up just one mm would increase the number of double orders per estrous about 30%.
DrO
Member:
Lisabeth

Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 4:37 pm:

Dr. O,

A follow up to my above post and a question.

The above mare was ultra sounded this am and shown to be not in foal. To add to my already "against the odds" situation, this mare unfortunately coliced five days after breeding. I understand the stress from this alone can compromise a viable pregnancy. At any rate, I was not surprised to hear she was open. However, her present “state” has me a bit confused.

As stated above, on the day she was bred, it was believed she had very recently ovulated, as her cervix was still very relaxed and open. Using the next day as "day 1” of her new cycle, this would have put her at day 18 today. (note: I had her checked later than the traditional 15 days as there was no evidence of potential twinning, and it happened to coordinate well with having another of my bred mares checked at 15 days.) I had assumed we would find her at mid cycle and ready to breed tomorrow or the next day. What we found was no pregnancy, and absolutely no follicular activity either? The old CL from the last cycle was present, as well as what looked to be a fresh CL. So apparently we missed her all together?!

I am wondering if you can tell me what the odds are of a mare who cycles just 18 days? Also, ANY chance she is in foal but it was somehow missed on the ultrasound, or does the presence of he CL completely dismiss this?

The current plan is to have her rechecked on Friday to see where things are at, then short cycle with Prostin.

Thank you very much!

Lisa
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 7:33 am:

Both 18 day cycles and pregnancies missed by US happen. The CL has no diagnostic significance.
DrO
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