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Discussion on Not enough milk?
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 5:56 pm:
Dear all
I noticed that my foal which is now a week old was butting the mare's udder a lot in the field and appeared not to be nursing for very long. I thought I was just being paranoid but I got a friend with more experience to check her and she found it impossible to milk anything from the mare and noticed that although the foal sucks vigorously it clearly isn't getting much because it doesn't swallow that often.
I rang my vet who says to call in for some milk replacer in the morning and be prepared for a trying time teaching the foal to drink from a bowl with a teat from a lamb's bottle to give mum a bit of respite.
Foal is well and active at the moment, just hungry. Mare was dripping milk before the birth - and was checked by a vet the day after, and I assume if there was a problem the foaling place would have alerted me. She does not seem to have mastitis in that she isn't sore, just isn't able to keep up with the demand despite having very good condition on her.
Any advice? Oh, and I'm working shifts in a hotel at the moment and I'd say I've nearly run out of credit with all my horsey friends who have been helping me with the leading... great timing!
Thanks
Imogen
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Member:
Roboski
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 8:34 pm:
Is it a matter of supply & demand? Just the foal trying to up production, you think?
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 1:55 am:
I think just an active, hungry foal but I don't know how to check - I am assuming if she has mastitis there will be heat and pain in the udder. When I fed them this morning the foal was asleep and then woke up and nursed and it seemed to get something alright.
My plan is to try and get a bottle into her to start with just to allay the hunger and then start on the bowl/teat/finger saga.
Imogen
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 2:18 am:
Imogen,
I was worried too, because my filly was really assertive about nursing. My vet said if she stayed active -- didn't get quieter, or sleep noticeably more -- than she was getting enough. Another sign of a hungry foal is one who licks everything (not just normal exploring) and one who falls asleep standing up by mom's udder. Mom seems to have kept up fine. I read (here?) that foals can nurse as often as 70 times a day!
Jerre
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:51 am:
I did a phone poll round knowledgeable friends. The guy from the foaling place they were at didn't believe that my mare could have a milk problem and told me to put some milk replacer in the mare's feed to help bring on the milk (not sure about that one but I thought "what harm?" so I put an eggcupful in her feed...)
A friend of a friend who does foaling said sometimes you can't milk the mare if the foal is very actively nursing and basically as long as the foal stays active not to worry. Also she said if they are really hungry the foals do go for the milk replacer so refusing to accept milk replacer is paradoxically a good thing...
My farming neighbour said he's never seen mastitis in any animal without the development of a hard udder or hard teats and the mare's are nice and floppy.
I also saw the foal urinate a good stream of fairly watery urine so that cheered me up - she can't be that dehydrated and although I think she's marginally quieter than usual it's only marginal.
Keep the advice coming, you are all wonderful! I don't think I'd be panicking if it wasn't that I have to go away for 9 hours to do a work shift but I have arranged a friend who used to work in a stud to check on them half way through and I've told her to press the panic button and call the vet if she's at all worried.
All the best
Imogen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 7:39 am:
Actively nursing foals often empty out the mare completely, making evaluation of production difficult. You should have the mare examined for problems and if all is OK but it is thought that she is not producing enough milk, up her nutrition considerably, especially the protein and calcium. Remember however overnutrition is the cause of many of our current developmental ills: don't supplement milk lightly.
DrO
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 9:11 am:
Dr O, the mare is butter fat, on unlimited good grass and getting two feeds a day of 2 scoops 14% coarse mix (I think you call it sweet mix) and half a scoop of oats so I hope it isn't a nutritional thing!
I think she's getting so fat I was considering knocking down her feeding but I had resisted the temptation until I saw whether the nursing was taking a lot out of her.
I think the foal just emptied her out and I'm trying to watch her more closely now. I don't notice much change in the size of her udder after the foal has nursed, though. I was not so worried that the foal needed any extra nutrition although it's still quite ribby, as that it would become dehydrated if not getting enough milk so I've calmed down a bit now I'm happy its peeing OK. Thanks for your reassurance - we'll just keep an eye on the foal's activity levels and act accordingly...!
Imogen
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 3:12 am:
Just reporting back that the foal is bounding around the field, definitely must be getting something otherwise it'd be sick and apathetic by now... but it is very ribby. I'd nearly say it is thinner than when it was born 10 days ago which seems odd? Or are they like human babies and lose weight at first before they start to put it on?
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Heidih
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 9:02 am:
Many foals are ribby when they are born and seem to stay that way for a few weeks. The foal I have that was born in Feb. was ribby for almost the first month. He had tons of energy and looked good except for the ribbiness. At about 6 weeks I noticed that he was finally filling out and not looking ribby at all. Now he's almost 3 months old and I think he's getting slightly fat. Not to mention that he's growing like a weed. Let me see if I can get some pictures to work, to show you the difference. The first one is from Feb. 19 (his birthday),
The second one is from March 1st.
The third one is from May 3rd.
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:20 am:
That's a big reassurance! And what a pretty foal, love the face!
Imogen
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Member:
Roboski
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 4:01 pm:
Imogen,
I've never bred/raised a foal so I know I'd be a basket case. When my first child was born I agonized about the same thing; was she getting enough? A very wise woman ( my mother, of course!) went out and got a scale. I weighed my daughter before she nursed and then after. A five ounce difference! Too bad you can't weight your baby!
Another thread is talking about a mare not standing still to be nursed upon; Lordy, I know how she feels about that, too! Ouch!
Guess there are more similarities than differences , LOL!
Sharon
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Member:
Heidih
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Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 8:30 am:
Thanks, I think he got the best of both parents. The height and long stretchy neck from his American Saddlebred Dad and the pretty head and wonderful personality from his Arabian mom.
Good luck with your foal.
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