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Discussion on "FALSE LABOR", TRUE LABOR, OR SOMETHING ELSE???
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 2:20 pm:
Greetings Everyone,
Yesterday, I got a call from the person who feeds for me in the morning and she said that my 10 yo pregnant Appy mare would NOT eat any of her grain. Now, she called me at 2pm, so I rushed out to the barn thinking I would find a new foal... alas, all the mares were milling around the paddock munching hay. I examined this mare and didn't really appreciate anything out of the ordinary, except she was wandering a bit more than is usual and repeatedly raising her tail (but it still appears to have muscle tone). Since this mare is an ex-PMU mare who I got only last month, her foal date is a mystery, though I was told that for the past three years she has foaled in May. I do know that she was pastured with the stallion from 5/15/6 until last autumn. Her bag has increased in size over the last month, but is not huge; I have not seen any waxing; though she does have a small amount of ventral edema in her abdomen. At the time, her vital signs were as follows: HR=60, RR=28, T=99.9F... I did observe her produce normal appearing manure and urinate. She also drank water and ate hay, however, again last evening she would NOT eat much, if any, of her grain and until these past two feedings, she was eating grain vigorously. I spoke to my vet who concurred that she could be in early labor, but he also reminded me that other things, i.e., colic, could be implicated. So, I checked on her on and off through the night and nothing seemed to occur. This morning, she did eat most of her grain pretty well, however, her heart rate has been consistantly 60 to 66 whenever I check it; respirations were under 20 early this morning, but 28 a little while ago; she is afebrile. So, is this early labor??? False labor??? Anything else??? Is anyone concerned about her elevated HR in the face of what appears to be all other normal vital signs, etc....??? Thanks! BTW, I have tried on two occasions to express milk and let's just say it's a big battle and I will lose if I persist...
Martha
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 4:27 pm:
Martha, can't really help you as every mare is different.. I would be keeping a close eye on her now tho.. You are noticing changes, thus things are changing with her... You could be watching her for weeks... or just a couple of days by what you say above..
Welcome to the fun days of Mare Stare. !!!!
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
canyon28
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 8:45 pm:
I would also be keeping a very close eye on her now, most mares dont develop the edema until very near the end. some mares dont wax at all so that is not a good indicator of how close she is to foaling, unless you already know the mare waxes before foaling. When the foal starts moving around getting ready to be born, it can sometimes make the mare show colic like symptoms. Are you planning on leaving her out with all those other mares even while she foals? I dont know how much land you have but I wouldnt do that unless you own a large acreage where she can go off by herself and foal alone. If she is a pmu mare she is used to being stalled, so you should put her up every night in her own stall now that she is close to foaling. Most mares will push on the sides of the stall or feed bunk with their butt, also when they are very close, they will stomp their back feet, act crampy in the back legs. the ones that are the hardest to catch foaling are the ones that dont wax, and they are fairly common.
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 10:21 pm:
Ann and Christine,
Thanks so much for your comments... well, now more than 36 hours after this mare wouldn't eat grain, still no foal or further signs of labor. She ate most of her grain this evening and has continued to show interest in hay and in drinking water. Her heart rate remains in the 60s with all other vital signs unchanged. Regarding the issue of bringing her in... when she arrived from Canada, she came with 2 other mares I "adopted", one of those from her own PMU herd and the other from a neighboring rancher... I guess after a pretty traumatic and fast 2700 mile ride in a cramped 12 horse trailer (sadly, nothing I could have any control over), she is extremely bonded to both of these other mares. Also, they are not pregnant, but have been rather protective of her... Ideally, I intended to have her isolated, either in a stall or alone in the paddock they now occupy, but she has been poorly mannered in those scenarios. For instance, when she was up in a stall (the double one that is 12' x 24'), she repeatedly kicked so much that she put a hole in the wall (unfortunately there are no kick boards)! When alone in the paddock, she has "challenged" the gate with a half rear that was a poor attempt to go over the gate, but nonetheless, she bent it so badly that we had to replace it! Fortunately, she has not been hurt with these activities... and she has enough health related issues at this point in time (she was the subject of an earlier post of mine... Mare with a mandibular abscess...) and will have to have surgery after she foals. My hope is that by tomorrow, I can remove one of the other mares from her paddock, leaving only the one that originated from her specific ranch. I was told that these mares have always foaled out in field surrounded by their own herd, but obviously with a lot more space... I know this may not be ideal, but it is a work in progress and I am confidant in the knowledge that her home with me now is one that is far more loving and providing of her needs. Also, since I am boarding, I have to contend with all the "damage" that these mares have been associated with so far (the stories I could tell)... so, I am afraid of attempting to stall her again, given the previous experience. I'll keep you posted.
Martha
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 4:00 pm:
Martha, she will probably do fine with the other mare in the paddock if there is enough space for privacy. They probably heave foaled together in years past and know the ropes.
How big is the paddock? Enough room for the other mare to get out of the way a bit? If not, can you run a temporary fence so they can see each other but not threaten until you know how they will behave with the foal there?
I just remember my mare was used to her old gelding friend for years, but she nearly killed him after she foaled. Maybe another mare she knows would be different.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 7:34 am:
I am concerned about the unexplained elevated HR and think it would deserve an exam.
DrO
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 1:43 pm:
Dr. O and Everyone,
Thanks for your concern... to say the least, I have been very fretful... sometimes, more knowledge is definitely not a good idea! I've been imagining horrible things like pregnancy induced cardiomyopathy (it happens in humans) or maybe sepsis or early heart failure from bacterial endocarditis (from her abscessed tooth!)... Anyway, I called my vet late yesterday and he planned to see her this morning. Well, wouldn't you know it... I got a call at 7am this morning from the person who I board with and she said that Mitzee had foaled!!! I raced out there to find a healthy appearing, active, large, SOLID, bay colt. Mitzee's HR was 48, the lowest it's been since I've been checking it... When my vet examined her, he didn't hear any murmurs and overall she looked pretty good. She was producing milk, we observed the foal latching on, and the foal's IgG level (based on that portable colorimetric test) was great. So, perhaps the tachycardia was related to early labor??? Or the fact that she was really pretty big and maybe just needed more cardiac output to feed the large placenta??? My vet did examine the placenta and he said that it looked pretty normal, except it was rather large (maybe she got some fescue somehow before she came to me???) and that there was one small tear but that the two pieces were intact. Anyway, I am relieved and now look forward to bringing up baby and getting Mitzee's jaw/dental surgery maybe in the next month sometime... THANKS AGAIN!
Martha
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 2:02 pm:
Bravo! Mom looks nice and relaxed, and what a handsome colt.
I don't see the other mare in the picture. Did everything go okay with her in there?
Congratulations!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 3:00 pm:
Great news, Martha. Glad for such a wonderful outcome. Have fun with baby and good luck with Mom's surgery. Enjoy!
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 3:21 pm:
Oh what a relief! So glad it all went well, and the baby looks great.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 6:47 pm:
That is a big baby.. CONGRATS...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 7:20 pm:
Martha, Congratulations what a wonder that would not be if not for you! My neighbors just had their little mustang so 2 little bays getting a chance at life! It was a good spring day ! Cindy 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 6:30 am:
Very nice Martha, glad to hear of the wonderful outcome. Concerning the markedly elevated heart rate this would not be normal until the uterine contractions that start shortly before birth began so for those with this finding have the mare examined.
DrO
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 11:35 am:
Martha, another little one was born this week. Out of the terrible trailer wreck in Missouri has come as beautiful bay colt with high white socks!No wonder spring is a time of promise this week has been filled with hope ! Cindy
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 1:02 am:
Thanks so much for everyones' positive and thoughtful comments... As I've just returned home from the barn, I can certainly say that the post-delivery time is wearing me out much more than did the pre-delivery time!!! Anyway to answer a few questions... Mitzee foaled in an enclosure with BOTH of the other ex-PMU mares present... the day prior, I had put all three mares, one at a time, in a pasture with two of the older mares on the property and everyone got along well, but I brought them back into their own enclosure that evening because Mitzee HATES being left alone. She paws at gates and fences, occasionally strikes out with her front end, kicks stall doors (when in a stall)... I know I've previously mentioned that she does NOT have well developed "social manners" around the barn, no doubt due to the life she's had so far (both of the other two ex-PMU mares are actually much better with their own manners). Fortunately, however, Mitzee is now content to be left alone with just her foal... in fact, she's very concerned about anything/anyone in proximity to the baby, which I think is probably understandable. But, she is RUNNING HIM RAGGED!!! My vet observed this the morning he examined them and suggested I "limit" her aerobic endeavors. Knowing what difficulties I've had placing her in a stall, I tried other options first (i.e., I put them in the round pen which is farther away from the barn and other pastures with other horses). This was only partially helpful, because then I had the issue of NO SHADE during the day, so this afternoon, I put her and the foal into our double stall and after a hour of kicking the stall door (no hole this time!) she finally settled down; the foal was able to alternately rest and nurse for several hours. They went back into their enclosure (which has a run-in shed attached) late this evening. We'll see how tomorrow goes...
The one thing I still have concern about is Mitzee's heart rate; I have checked it several times since delivery and it always appears to be 48 - 54; since I've been alone each time at the barn, I've not been able to check her temp; her respirations are usually in the mid 20s. Also, though she eats hay well and is drinking water, she just picks at her grain now. My vet was out yesterday morning just after she foaled and he thought everything looked O.K. I'm trying not to be too neurotic (but already the size of this posting proves that I am!), but I just can't shake the feeling that something else is going on with this mare and my vet is out of town now until next week. Any ideas??? Thanks!
Martha
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 11:21 am:
Martha, as you, yourself noted keep in mind just what having a foal has meant to the mare, a lot of baggage! That being said if your inner flags are up there is usually a reason. Your solution seems good hope it works out. Her heart rate good just be worried apprehension that will lower when the baby is still there at her side and not ranked a way. Neurotic is totally normal for "horse" moms. Cindy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 27, 2007 - 6:31 am:
The elevated heart rate may just be the nervous excitable behavior you describe Martha but this is just a guess. Review some of the other important vital signs that you can examine at Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Taking Temperature, Pulse, and Respiration to see if anything else sticks out.
DrO
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