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  Discussion on Membrane did not break
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Member:
Andrear

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 - 1:16 pm:

Hello Dr. O,
Last night we had a foal born in our barn. Someone was sleeping in the barn and was there to see the birth. The baby was born hind feet first, but was out before she had time to worry about it. I arrived at the barn about 3 minutes after is was born, but the membrane had not broken, so we ripped it open around the foals face. We have had other foals in the barn, but have always missed the actual birth so I don't really know what is normal. We didn't want to interfere, but also didn't want to watch the baby suffocate. If we hadn't been there would the baby have managed to break the membrane? The only rip in it was near her hind feet. The reason I ask is that we have 3 more foals due shortly and if this is a common issue we'll be sure to keep sleeping in the barn. Also, because the sac was still around the baby, it's umbilical cord was attached for over an hour. (that's how long it took it to stand up) The baby had done most of the work of untangling itself, so we helped it out of the last little bit of membrane, and cut the umbilical cord. It had twisted many times, and there was very minimal blood in it, but I didn't want to leave the barn until the baby was free of everything and standing up. I really like to leave the mare and baby alone during the whole process, so I want to know what I should do if something similar should happen next time. I've scouted through the site, but can't find any tips on removing membrane or helping with the umbilical cord.
Thanks for your help!
Andrea
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 24, 2004 - 2:22 pm:

I tell you what, you are extremely lucky that foal is alive. Its a good thing someone was there to get the sack off it its head. I think you should have left the umbilical alone, even though the foal had not stood or the mare had not stood up and broken it for all the time. I never leave my foals alone with the mare until I have seen them stand, nurse, and poop the meconium. too many things can happen to the foal , if it doesnt nurse within several hours it will become so weak it cannot nurse. this foal being born backwards was very weak, and needed extra help. Getting the membrane off the foals face probably saved it life. Once again, you were extremely lucky this foal lived and that there was someone there. I try to attend every birth, just in case of such complications. My horses are fairly expensive horses , so I cannot afford to lose one due to lack of attendance on my part. Your mare needs to be attended for sure again in the future, in case she has another breech birth.
www.canyonrimranch.net
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 25, 2004 - 9:39 am:

Hello Andrea,
I have seen recommendations to clear away the amnion even before the foal is completely out of the birth canal. Of course this follows the recommendation to not disturb the mare during the birth process.

It is good practice to be sure that the amnion is cleared away from the head of the foal as soon as the foals chest clears the birth canal but suffocation of a foal by the amnion is a rare event. Foals found dead in the amnion were probably dead at birth or very weak. It is a judgement call, do you risk disturbing the mare and possibly having her stand earlier and the foal fall out of a standing straining mare (something I have witnesses), or risk the unlikely event that this might be the difference between life and death for this foal. It seems you took a logical approach and considering the abnormal presentation and the amnion broken on the wrong end, You may have saved this foal's life.

Concerning the placenta you most often see the recommendation to allow the cord to break naturally but after an hours time I am sure you did no harm.
DrO
Member:
36541

Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2004 - 9:33 am:

My advice - do all you can possibly do to have an attendant watching at the birth. This past season I missed a delivery and lost a foal and the evidence was clear that it had strangled in the sac. The foal was clear of the sac except a twist around the head that looked like your foot entering a stocking. There were frantic baby hoofprints all around, and meconium on the ground, but the foal had suffocated. The following day I researched and got the milk-testing kit as well as the Breeder Alert halter monitor. The combo of the two tests allowed me to leave the next mare alone in her stall until the pager went off. We let her push 10-15 min(proven broodmare), but she needed us to pull the huge filly out as she was exhausted. Several hours after nursing, and pooping, the filly became tachypneic(rapid breathing) and we had a final diagnosis of patent urachus with resulting sepsis and surgery. I don't share all this for the drama - I just don't want anyone to have these horrible experiences. In the past I had apparently had really good luck, it was my turn for the odds to change. If you value the mare(and/or the get) at all, call in your debts and get the watchers lined up. I also found "Blessed are the Broodmares" helpful. My prayers are with all of you entering the foaling season - I am taking a few years off to recover financially and emotionally. Stacy
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Saturday, Mar 27, 2004 - 7:04 am:

Andrea
So glad your foal survived. You did a good job getting the membrane off of the foal's face. I would have helped the foal out of the cord and membrane though, if it was twisted and struggling.
I am always in the barn when my mares foal. I am sure there will be one sneaky one who has it at 1 in the afternoon when I am eating lunch though. I feel I bred these mares and I have an obligation to do my best for them and their foals.
I have had to pull, (well my hubby pulled) a foal out who was hung up by it's elbow. This year I had one whose hoof was going to go through the rectum. I also had a maiden who didn't care much for pushing.

My mares are used to me messing with them and have never minded my presence during or after the foaling. I don't do anything (except wrap tail and tie up placenta) unless things don't progress as they should, but I have no reservations of getting in there to help. Also, I don't leave foal until I treat the umbilical stump, see them up and nursing and pass the meconium/urinate.
The Complete Foaling Manual by Theresa Jones is excellent and goes into what to do in different situations.

Stacy,
I am so sorry you lost a foal. That is devastating.
~B
Member:
Contilli

Posted on Saturday, Mar 27, 2004 - 1:42 pm:

Andrea-
There is a great foaling video which will tell you the process of foaling. It sounds as if you are a novice and maybe you should arm your self with some knowledge about foaling. The video is Foaling Fundamentals. You can find it in most mail order catalogs. It is a very informative video that you will enjoy.

Good luck on the next three!
Member:
Andrear

Posted on Friday, Apr 2, 2004 - 8:01 am:

Hello Everyone,
Thank you for all of the advice. We had healthy baby number two born last night. Despite late night checks, Mom gave no indication she was ready to have her baby, and we missed being there. Baby and Mom are both fine. The only difference in this mare was a slight change in belly shape. Guess next time I'll take that more seriously.
Thanks again,
Andrea
New Member:
Jmccall

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 - 8:10 am:

Hi Andrea! We are new to this, too, and watched our first 2 normal deliveries full of sappy confidence in a benign providence. By the third I have gained enough confidence to be more interactive, even aggressive if needed, with the support of the excellent : Complete Book of Foaling by Karen Haynes, which I would highly recommend.
We have had wonderful luck so far, being there without exhausting ourselves by using a simple audio/video infrared camera, with a 60' cable back to a TV set on the counter in the tack room. The attendant can sleep on a real mattress, and immediately be awakened by unusual noises, and evaluate the mare's behaviour on the TV without getting up for false alarms. The camera was less than C$100.00 purchased on-line in 2002, far cheaper than any foaling alarm system I've seen advertised. We hang a red 175w lamp poultry brooder on the ceiling and it lights the stall up like a floodlight on the TV, with only a soft red glow in the stall, preserving your night vision, and gives the mare a warm spot to bask in while we all wait through those cold northern spring nights in a dark and quiet barn. It has worked so far to get us there as soon as the water has broken. May have some impact on your human relationships if you spend the foaling season sleeping in the barn, but the signal can also pe relayed to your beDrOom if you invest in wireless transmitter/receiver, are a light sleeper and fast runner. We used ispytoronto.com, but there are many internet vendors of such devices now. Many more blessed events! JoAnn McCall
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