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Discussion on Confusing information on a rescued pregnant mare
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Member:
Beemer
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 2004 - 1:21 pm:
We have adopted a pregnant Percheron Cross PMU mare coming to us from Canada on which we have limited information. We are prohibited from contacting the farmer that bred this mare so we are dependent on the very little information we were given and on your opinions. Here is her photo:
We have a several questions we hope someone can help us out with.
First, she is in foal to a stallion described as a palomino. Here is his photo:
He looks quite light in color and, of course, his lack of cleanliness make a judgement of his color difficult. But does he actually appear to be palomino or cremello? We do not know who has described this stud as being palomino--whether it was the farmer or one of the volunteers trying to place the mares. What color do you think he is?
The last seasons foal for our mare is shown in her picture above but you can only see its very light colored legs. If it helps, we have a photo of our mare's full sister with her foal by the same stud. It appears to be perlino, doesn't it?
If that foal is a perlino, doesn't that mean the stud must be a cremello? And what color foal are we likely to have?
Our last question has to do with the confusing registration on the stud. The information we have is the he is registered as Express (or Xpress) Valley Bar 3358949. In some cases his registration is described as APHA and in others as AQHA. Can anyone tell us which it could be and how we can get additional information on him? Since he appears to be registered somewhere, does that mean we can have the foal registered? At present, we have a grade quarter and a Morab, so we do not know about registering APHAs and AQHAs. Anything you can tell us will be helpful.
Thank so much and Happy Holidays to all.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 8:42 am:
The stallion appears palomino to me. It is not true you must have a cremello parent to produce a perlino offspring. The offspring must be a cremello with a bay gene so could have one buckskin parent and one palamino parent. Concerning the registration, I think you will have to contact the associations to verify the information you received.
DrO
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Member:
Gyspy98
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 10:49 am:
Cremello horses have blue eyes. Palomino horses have one red gene and one creme gene.
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 11:28 am:
the stallion is a palomino, no doubt about it. the dark skin on his nose is self explanatory. A cremello or perlino have pink skin all over their body, which may have a few darker specks or spots in it, but they are predominately pink skinned. A cremello also has blue eyes, which this horse does not have. I think the foal is also a palomino,possibly even a light colored buckskin, many buckskins are born very light colored like this. He is not a perlino, his eyes look dark, as does the skin on his nose.I will look up the infomation for you on the stallion, I believe that he is aqha and I can use the number to check for the correct name also. However, the foal is not registerable,be cause the mare is a grade mare. the aqha only accepts for registration, foals from two AQHA reg parents or foals from one aqha parent and one approved tb parent. The mare appears to be a bay, not a buckskin. But she is a color that could also be a buckskin. she would have to be a buckskin for there to be any possiblity that her foal by the palomino stud would be a double dilute. I will get the info and post it for you on the stallion. or send me your email address to canyonrimranch@aol.com
chris
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Member:
Heidih
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 11:37 am:
There is a palomino AQHA stallion by the name of Express Valley Bar, foaled in 1995. I don't have any AQHA research money left this month, so I can't tell you anything about him. The stallion looks like a palomino to me, since you can clearly see the blaze on his face and his dark eyes. Many palominos get very very light in the winter. Some stay fairly light all the time. A friend of mine has an AQHA palomino stallion who is very light. He is by a palomino out of a chestnut mare, so no chance of cremello. All of his palomino babies are the very very light palomino color (all are out of non-palomino mares).
If the foal pictured above is last years foal out of the bay mare, it cannot be perlino. A perlino foal needs 2 parents that have at least 1 dilute gene. (palomino, buckskin, cremello etc.) You basically have a 50/50 chance of a foal carrying 1 dilute gene with the color possibilities being bay, black (if she carries only 1 agouti (bay) gene), chestnut (since the mare only has 1 black gene based upon a probable palomino foal last year), buckskin, palomino and smokey black (if she carries only 1 copy of the agouti gene). Smokey black is a black horse with 1 dilution gene.
Hope this helps.
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 11:38 am:
the stallions name is Express Valley Bar, AQHA 3358949, he is a 1995 palomino stallion foaled in Alberta Canada. He has no record of any registered aqha foals, so they have been breeding him to grade mares only or not bothering to reg any full aqha foals. As I said in my other letter, any foals from the mare you adopted would be grade if bred to an AQHa or APHA stallion. HOWEVER, you should look into breeding her to a TB in the future, as these foals might be elegible for WARMBLOOD registry. You will need to find out more info on this before doing it. I imagine you can find out what you need to know about warmbloods on the internet.
Chris
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2004 - 6:28 pm:
since your mare is a pmu I think that you might be able to register your horse and the upcoming foal with Naeric. I found this info and mabye you might be able to find out more info on it. The best thing to do is contact Naeric and find out.
"equine ranchers who collect pregnant mare’s urine (PMU) in North Dakota, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, may register a horse with NAERIC. After a horse is registered, it is enrolled in the NAERIC Incentive Program for its lifetime and for each subsequent owner of that horse."
Additional information can be obtained from the NAERIC office, from participating NAERIC members, and from the NAERIC web site, www.naeric.org.
P.O. Box 43968
Louisville, KY 40253
Phone: 502-245-0425
Fax: 502-245-0438
I believe there is also a sporthorse registry out there also that you can register with.
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