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Discussion on Gray Stallion and Sorrel Tovero Mare- Foal Color
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Member:
Jlbr
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 12:30 pm:
Hi,
Some people are leasing my mare out and want to breed her. We recently just found out she is a carrier of the leathel white gene, so we are going to breed her to a Quarter horse (and make sure he is tested also). The horse they have chosen though is a dark gray. She is a Sorrel Tovero. She has 3 small sorrel spots on her. Anybody have any idea what the foal might come out to be?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 1:40 pm:
It would help to know colors of parents and grand parents of each horse. Color doesn't just come from the two individuals involved unless they are homozygous.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 1:41 pm:
Oh..just remembered, there was a good discussion on color genetics not too long ago. Do a search and see if you can find it. It was all worth reading.
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Member:
Jlbr
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 6:10 pm:
well on my mares side the sire was a black and white tovero and the Dam was a sorrel breeding stock paint. I don't know about the studs side.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 7:26 pm:
Sara is right, you need to know a little about the color down the line, specially the stallion... at this point you will have 50 /50 chance of a gray or a colored horse that will turn gray and wash out the colored once had... I know in the appy breeding we STAY AWAY from gray as it will take off a beautiful blanket in time...
have fun...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 8:04 pm:
Because I raise Arabians I've forgotten a lot of my genetics except as it applies to them. (I'm also getting older and forgetful, but would rather not get into that. )
If you had an Arabian, you would most probably get a gray or a speckled gray, unless there was something really strong on your mare's side. Gray is usually dominant with Arabians, unless one of the breeding animals is homozygous. Also, the color in the stud's pedigree plays a part. If there was quite a bit of chestnut or black on his side, maybe you'd get color. With Arabians, it would be unusual, though.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 8:06 pm:
I just clicked on "search and discussions" and did a search for "genetics" and the first two items that came up were regarding coat color. You might want to check it out.
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Member:
Chrism
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 6:13 pm:
You don't give us much to go on.
Has the sorrel had any foals? What colors? What colors are her parents? Were any bay or black?
Has the gray sired any foals? Again, what colors - has any ever been non-gray? What is the "base color" of the gray? black hairs or brown? Does it have black mane/tail/points? What are the colors of the gray's parents?
The only thing we can tell you is that the foal may turn gray. You need one gray parent to produce a gray foal. But the odds can be 25% or 50%, depending on whether the parent contributing the gray gene is hetero or homozygous gray.
For everything you want to know about coat color and then some, check:
https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/coatcolor/coatclr3.html
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Member:
Elsiedar
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 1:16 pm:
Jody,
Your mare is homozygous for red gene (Sorrel/Chestnut)and she might have an Agouti gene (expressed only on black and restricts black to the points, i.e., bay or buckskin). If the stallion before he turned grey was black, the foal could be sorrel, black or bay with a 50% chance of being tovero, overo or tobiano and 50% Chance of going grey. If the stallion was born bay it is the same as black. If stallion was a sorrel, the foal will be sorrel with a 50% chance of being tovero, overo or tobiano and 50% Chance of going grey. I attached an article I wrote and was published last January. My book "Equine Color Plain and Simple" is in final stages.
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Member:
Jlbr
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 7:00 pm:
Hi everyone!
Thank you so much for the advice. Sorry i couldn't give you more information. This is the first time my mare has been bred so I don't know what she will throw. the gray is dark gray and all the babys i have seen of his are dark gray with black points. I don't know what color his dam and sire are so oh well. All your information was really helpful! Thank you soo much!!!
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Article on Equine Color Genetics