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  Discussion on Foal Imprinting
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Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 1:24 am:

I board at a facility where the owners live on the property. I have read many great articles and topics about imprinting the foal directly after birth. This is my first and my mares first foal. It was recommended by the owners of the barn that I let the mare and foal bond first, wait about six hours then imprint the foal. Is it best to wait or should I do it immediately as recommended by the articles and research that I have performed? Will waiting six hours be to late to imprint the foal? I am confused and would like some insight to this important process.

Thanks,

Renee

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 9:18 am:

Hi Renee,
How exciting! There is nothing more joyful than the birth of a foal and you'll always remember the first one especially well. A question: has your mare been in a herd situation where she has been around other mares foaling and the resultant foals? If not, and since this is her first, I would be inclined not to interfere in the process. I'm not sure about the six hour thing---it takes a lot of physical strength to hold down even a newborn that hasn't gained it's feet yet, much less one that's been up and around for several hours, plus, I'm not sure that the "ideal" window hasn't been passed by that time. For what it's worth, my suggestion is that you consider not imprinting this time around. Imprinting gives you nothing that good handling doesn't, and it does have some negative effects, even done correctly. In my opinion, your mare (assuming all goes well with the birth) will be better off having the uninterrupted bonding time with her new baby.
Best of luck!

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 9:56 am:

Hi Renee
I imprinted my first foal. My mare was a maiden and an orphan to boot. I was concerned about her and her mothering skills. All for no reason, I was soon to find out. As soon as the foal was most of the way out, the mare started nickering to her baby and the foal back to her. It choked me up, it was such a beautiful moment.
But getting back to the imprinting, I did it right away, before the foal stood. It didn't interfere with the bonding of mare and foal at all. I let them have their "moments", but the mare was tired and didn't get up for 15-20 minutes. This gave me plenty of time to work with the foal. I gave them a rest after that and then did some more rubbing on the foal. I think the sooner you are in the foal's little world the better.
Amy, I am interested in learning what negative affects imprinting has on a foal. In my experience, I have only witnessed the positive. I work at a clinic where numerous foals come for surgery and treatment. The imprinted foals are easy to spot and easier to handle.
~barbara

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 11:25 am:

Hi Barbara,

I haven't had much opportunity to interact with imprinted foals myself--I tried it on one of my newborns once, after people had asked me for a couple of years if I imprinted my foals (they are usually pretty friendly little guys). I studied the method carefully and am certain I applied it correctly, but the entire process felt wrong to me, and in the end, I couldn't see any advantage to it over my normal approach to foal handling.

I can see how foals who've been imprinted might be easier to handle at the vet clinic, as they are less sensitized to stimuli. This is great for stitching up a leg, but I'm not sure it's as great when you get to the point of wanting to teach subtle cues. In this vein, what I was referring to was not my own singular experience, but what I've seen with the older imprinted horses at some of the clinics I've attended, in particular Mark Rashid's. There have been several different times now when Mark has been working with a horse, using his usual quiet, subtle approach, and he'll stop, turn to the owner and ask "was this horse imprinted?"
Whenever he has asked that, the answer has always been "yes."
For a while, he wouldn't elaborate on how it was he could tell or why he was asking, but finally we clinic participants asked him what was up. He admitted that he could almost always recognize an imprinted horse right away, because they seemed to him to have a lot harder time learning, perhaps because of their dullness to signals. He said that it took a cruder signal, ie a lot more energy, whether hand or leg or whatever, to get a response. At the last clinic I attended, there was one (imprinted) horse who finally required a big, arm-flapping, flurry of energy to get him to even walk off---and Mark sounded almost sad when he explained that it was only necessary because the horse had been so desensitized to stimuli. This was not an isolated case, but one of several I've personally seen, and one of many that Mark has encountered. Enough apparently that he can now spot them quickly.

I was at a TTEAM clinic several years ago with Linda Tellington-Jones, and a participant asked her what she thought of imprinting. Her response, which I thought too simplistic at the time, was "would you do this to your child??"
I have more sympathy with this response now. I'm not a fan of "flooding" anyway, but even beyond that, certain aspects of imprinting are fairly invasive as well as (IMO) potentially emotionally damaging. I have very serious questions about what this may do to a horse's spirit. Many may disagree, or feel that I am being overly careful or too fluffy or something, but the spirit is a really important thing to me. In my own go at imprinting, the large, active, newborn and I struggled on the ground until--by the end of the procedure--she was too exhausted to stand and nurse. This all *felt* wrong to me, but I was determined to give it a try and apply the procedure correctly. For a long time afterward she just sort of lay on the ground without any interest in anything. This shouldn't have come as a surprise to me, as there is nothing more psychologically crushing to a horse than being prevented from rising. This is the aspect that most concerns me with regard to the spirit. With my own filly, I eventually had to help her up and practically place her mouth on the teat. I can't believe that this wasn't traumatic for her; it was for me.)

The way I see it, handling ears, mouth, anus, using clippers, waving bags, etc are all trust issues, and are easily accomplished when trust is there, with or without imprinting.

Just my nickel's worth.

~Amy

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 2:18 pm:

Hi Amy
Thanks for your reply. I can see your point of view. I also would not want to take anything away from a horses spirit. I did the basics of imprinting but not totally by the book. I really just talked to him and let him know I existed AND I rubbed him all over. I didn't have a struggle with my guy and I did alot with him after he stood. My colt is not even close to being dull or totally desensitized to stimuli. He is quite a happy little fireball. I didn't "wave" a plastic bag at him, just rubbed him with it. I didn't use clippers until he was 2 months old and I body clipped him because he was too hot with his baby hair.
Imprinting a foal should desensitized them to certain stimuli (ex. touching ears) and sensitized to others (ex.moving sideways when pressure is put on flank). All in preparation for easy handling and training.
My guy is bright, alert and eager to listen and a pleasure to hang out with.
I don't agree with comparing a foal to a human baby. A baby is not capable of running away from danger shortly after birth, where as a foal must be able to get up eat and go within hours. A foal develops at a much different rate than a human. Also I never thought of imprinting as a big battle with the foal. The 2 foals that I did this year responded with out much fuss.
True good and consistent handling can be comparable but I do feel a special bond with the foals I imprinted. We adopted an orphan and he wasn't handle until 7 weeks of age. We can do almost everything with him that we do with the imprinted foal but it is obvious that he is not as trusting as my other colt.

~barbara

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2000 - 4:12 pm:

Amy and Barbara:

Thank you very much for your input, it has helped me to make a decision.

Amy; my mare is currently in a stall/paddock. I am definitely not going to interfere with the foaling process unless there is a problem. Your input on the foal's strength hours after delivery makes sense. I believe I should do a mild imprinting right away trying not to turn a good thing into a bad. I do not want to force the foal to stay down so that I may perform lots of tedious techniques on it. As far as the sacking out with the bag and clippers, those items I will introduce at a later time when I have established trust. I will towel dry, dip the severed umbilical cord in iodine and pat the bottom of the foal's feet. I may rub the ear and buttocks area, but I don't want to over do it. After intense internet research and your input regarding the imprinting procedure I now believe that consistency will pay off in the end no matter when the imprinting is done. Many of the articles on the internet favored imprinting, however there were numerous articles that stated the bad effects of imprinting as well. Imprinting can create problems with getting the foal to move forward, when training to be ridden, due to too much stimuli of the flank area. Therefore, no stimulation should be presented to this area when imprinting. This information was found in an article about Dr. Miller's imprinting techniques, which favored his theory. There is also no proven research to the benefits of imprinting. Everyday interaction must be followed up with the foal to achieve the desired results.

There is a foal currently at my boarding facility, which was imprinted at birth. The owners, now, cannot easily handle the foal, due to lack of follow through. The first chance their foal gets - it bucks/kicks, gets away and runs the property. This foal is now four (4) months old.

Barbara; I hope I have the same exciting experience as you had upon your mare foaling. I am fearful that my mare will not accept the baby and I am pleased to read your success story. My mare is definitely a boss mare and does not like her barn mates to simply look at her while she eats. Does your mare display this behavior as well? Did your mare foal on or near her due date? What signs did she show to let you know the time was fast approaching? My mare is now at 331 days and has swollen utters with no signs waxing or milk. Her belly is still pretty round (not slab sided) and there is little hollowing in her rump area. Please let me know what symptoms you recognized that informed you that foaling was imminent. Thanks.

You both provided me with such great input. Thanks again for your assistance and time.

Take Care,

Renee

Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2000 - 8:21 am:

Hello All,
As can be seen from the discussion above and from my own experience, the jury is still out on imprinting and I strongly suspect it is variable. For some individuals, some horses, and some intended uses it does more good than for others. Rashid's remarks are fascinating and they make sense, if imprinting helps desensitize the horse to humans stronger aids may7be needed to get the point across.

I do know it does not take the place of good halter training and the proper correction of aggressive behavior. Some of these foals seem to take the lead away from their owners and in two cases became little hellions. I don't believe it was the imprinting that caused this but the lack of other training. I believe Dr. Miller has added some steps in his imprinting program meant to address dominate behavior.
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2000 - 9:49 am:

Yes! You can't imprint a foal the first hour of life and then do no more training.
Dr Miller's book talks about desensitizing some areas and sensitizing others. He clearly states that the flank area should not be desensitized as this leads to problems with the horse listening to leg aids. My somewhat imprinted foal leads remarkably well and will sidepass when I push on his flank to move him over. I think if done correctly a foal would not be desensitized to a rider's or handler's aids/cues.
Renee to answer your questions about my maiden mares birth...my mare gave birth on day 345. She never had a really big bag before having the foal, but she did have a little wax 5 days before. She also got very mushy around her tail head. Her belly did seem to DrOp down and back just before foaling but not as significantly as I thought it would. I stayed at the barn for 8 days and nights waiting! When the evening arrived, I knew it would be that night. She was literally climbing the walls! She kept pawing and putting her feet up the wall! At 11 PM her water broke and she layed down. It was incredible how fast everything happened....the foal was out in 15 minutes! But what a moment....it is truly a miracle to see a new life born. The mare and foal nickered back and forth, it was beautiful. I spent the rest of the night at the barn making sure everything stayed normal and went on schedule as far as standing, nursing, passing the meconium and urinating. I wouldn't be worried about your mare accepting your foal, it's a fairly rare occurence. It is truly a blessing to be able to witness a foaling and I wish you the best with your mare. let us know how it goes!
~barbara

Posted on Sunday, Jun 25, 2000 - 1:00 am:

Having read all I can about imprinting, I've decided not to go that route with my foal (if it ever gets here...). It seems so unnatural to me, and I know that none of my current horses were imprinted, yet they have wonderful relationships with me and are good with the shoer and vet.

Our barn manager had a foal 12 days ago, and rather than imprint at birth, she began to introduce things to the baby at 2 days of age. She picks up the hoofs daily, rubs the ears, handles the foal, and expects the foal to relax into her before letting go (natural horsemanship-style release). She has also rubbed the baby with the non-cutting side of the clippers. The foal is quite happy and doing well with handling, though quite the fireball.

Her route feels much better to me. Although horses and humans differ, I feel strongly that mother and baby need time together with minimal outside interference. JMHO.

Posted on Sunday, Jun 25, 2000 - 10:51 am:

Hi all,

Renee, it sounds like you have a good plan in mind that will give you the best of both worlds. I think it's great, too, that you did so much research in an effort to do right by your foal--I have no doubt that he/she will be in good hands! Now comes the hard part---waiting!

You've probably read many of the foaling books like BLESSED ARE THE BROODMARES, but two other behaviors I've noticed in "imminent" mares are backing up to posts and walls, and personality changes like being more subdued. One of my past alpha mares used to get really mellow right before foaling. I think the personality changes can go any way, though, or not be there at all. As you probably already know, they can foal without waxing, or they can shape up very quickly and go from first wax to dripping milk within hours. As foaling approaches, the tail should feel increasingly limp and her vulva will begin to look sort of slack and swollen. Mares within days of parturition will often foal during thunderstorms. Re the length of gestation--it varies, and from one pregnancy to the next. I've had mares foal as early as 323 and as late as 360 and have perfectly healthy babies. My older mares seem to carry a bit toward the longer side. At the Texas A & M breeders school several years ago, they said the median gestation period was 332 days.
Hope you're surviving the sleepless nights okay!

Gay, I loved your comments about your barn manager's approach... IMO, that's an ideal way to do it; at least, it's very similar to the way I've approached it when I've had a mare and baby at the barn rather than out in the pasture in the breeding herd. I really think that with babies, it's all about the *quality* of your interactions with them, much more so than the frequency or length of each one. It's also very important at this stage that strangers aren't interacting with your foal in negative ways and undoing your good work... Foals seem to draw people like a magnet. The only guy I've ever ordered off my place was a new farrier (his one and only time out) who, when I went to the house to get my checkbook, went without my permission into a stall with a mare and baby, and began "working" with the foal. The arrogance of some people is mind-boggling.
This foal was three days old and I'd been interacting with him since his birth, for seconds at a time, every time I had to walk past that stall---at three days you could walk up to him, rub him all over, stroke his face, lift all four feet off the ground without any resistance, and I had just begun to hold his feet a bit longer each time. This was all with him standing there quietly, and no restraint, though I had introduced him to restraint with my arms lightly around his chest and rump. He was calm and curious; I felt very good about the start we had.

This farrier undid all that in a manner of minutes by (assuming, I guess, that the foal couldn't just be walked up to) lunging at the foal and catching him around the neck and base of the tail (which resulted in the foal leaping headfirst into the stall wall, farrier still attached), then grabbing the foal's foot, jerking it off the ground, and cranking it way up high. I arrived at the stall door, checkbook in hand, at just this point.
I am seldom speechless, but I stood there so horrified and surprised that for a few seconds I couldn't get anything out. It got worse before it got better (the low point was a mini lecture from this idiot, in mid-struggle, about how important it is to "start 'em early"). Actually the only way it got better was when the farrier finally DrOve out my front gate.

A gentleman purchased that mare and foal just two weeks later, and during that time I'd not been able to gain back much ground that had been lost. After that incident, the foal was a different little guy, and very wary of people. The buyer commented to me months later that he had been difficult to halter-train, which just made my heart hurt.

I'm not trying to be a downer with that little story that *still* makes me angry--nearly ten years later---but just to warn you that you might want to be cognizant of who else is handling your foals, and how.

Best of luck to both of you.

~Amy

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2000 - 9:26 pm:

Hi Amy and Barbara:

My mare foaled on June 26th a beautiful colt. I named him Raad, Arabic for Thunder and Lightning. I imprinted approximately 3 hours later upon his ability to stand fully and begin to nurse from mom. He is doing great. My mare had a difficulty pushing out the shoulders and needed my assistance pulling slightly on his legs. I towel dried him and dipped his umbilical cord, then left him to become better aquainted with his mom. He was born at 1:25 pm. His sire was born on June 16th five years prior at 1:30 pm. He is full of energy and equivalent to one horse power.

Thanks for all your input.

Renee

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2000 - 5:06 am:

Congratulations, Renee!

I love the name you picked. Glad things went so well; I'm sure your mare was appreciative of your helping her with the shoulders. :-0

You've got a really fun couple of years ahead of you, and hopefully many more after that! Best of luck and keep us posted as the little guy grows up. :-)

~Amy
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