This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Equine Reproduction » Horse Breeding & Artificial Insemination » Pregnancy Diagnosis »
  Discussion on Pregnancy
Author Message

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2000 - 4:45 am:

can a mare come into or act like she is in
season whilst she is pregnant

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2000 - 9:06 am:

yes

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2000 - 11:13 am:

Yes, but I would have her checked if it is important.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 6, 2001 - 12:46 am:

I have two mares that were bred last June. I have not been able to have them tested as I live very far out in the country and am between trailers at this time. I have not had a mare to foal since I was 12-years-old and remember very little about her symptoms. All the research I have done in the past few months, has given me hope that they are indeed pregnant. The older mare is around 18 to 20 years and I have had her almost 2 years. I know that chances of conception decrease considerably at this age, but I have kept her in very good condition with suppliments and had her weight up at the time she was bred. The other is a 6-year-old madden. They have both gained weight and are showing a somewhat larger belly, The madden mare's udder seemed swollen upon returning from the stud and has continued to inlarge. The old mare's tits have increased in size a little, but she shows no sign of bagging up. However, she does have large moving lumps in her left side below the twirl of the hair and on the lower side of the belly below the flank that Is sensitive to touch. I have always been able to clean their tits and between their hips with no trouble, but now the madden mare doesn't want me near them. Her ears go flat back against her head and she moves away. The old mare is uncomfortable with me as well. Their bellies are both very hard also, but I have had them on winter grass just over a month now.
My questions are, At what point does the foal begin to move and where can I feel it moving, and what signs do I need to look for? Also, I know around the eighth month is when the foal begins to take on most of its weight, so shouldn't they begin to really show now? My vet will be coming at the end of next week. I know I need to start preparing if I am to have little ones in a few months. Also the suspense is killing me.
Any information anyone can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Anxiously waiting,
Jeanne Jones

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 7, 2001 - 6:04 am:

I am afraid there is so much variation in the way mares look that meaningful answers are near impossible: some mares look heavy that are not pregnant and some mares do not look pregnant weeks before they give birth.

Foals actually begin moving quite early but you can sometimes feel then moning from the 7th month onward, but usually not. Hopefully your vet will be able to help you a bit more here.
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2001 - 5:45 pm:

Dear Dr.Oglesby,

I have two mares that I took to my vet last year to have bred. He runs a stallion station at his ranch. One mare is 24 years old never been bred as far I know so I assumed she was a maiden mare. The other mare is 14 years old and I know she was a maiden mare. He started breeding both of them the end of May/early June 2000. The first day they both cultured clean. After that each time they were bred AI the both got uterus infections. One had staph and the other one a yeast infection. He bred them three or four times AI but had to treat them for several days before and after each breeding for the infections. We finally gave up in August because he said 1)it was their confirmation that caused the uterine infections 2)the age of the mares 3)maiden mares. So after $2500 of treatment and $3000 in stud fees,plus board I didn't get my mares in foal. But I knew the chances I was taking at the beginning being maiden and aged mares so that wasn't a surprise to me. The infections and all the treatment is what through me off. On July 24th one Ultrasound check date I had brought them back he asked me if they acted any different and I said matter of fact yes, they seem calmer. He said well that's a good sign. So I had thought they were in foal. So he did the Ultrasound and said no neither one of them were in foal. But I had really noticed how different they both acted. This was after the first breedings. The 24yr old mare he said had multiple cysts (she had one cyst when we started from the very first ultrasound). So then I left them that day because he said they both had uterine infections. the Ultrsounds were a few days apart on the two of them because of their breeding dates but they were close)I just happened to have them both with me on 7/24 so he said leave them both there and he will treat them for the infections and then rebreed. So I agreed. Only because I didn't want them (the two vets that were working with me)to quit and my mares would go home with infections without being treated. He cleaned them both up again and the cultures were clean, rebred and then 17 days later another ultrasound on both and no foals. Infections again still cysts in the one mare. So we had to do the treatments all over again. I was so frustrated by early August I said lets quit. He agreed also. And Caslick the 14 yr old mare that had the yeast infection. I just told him it was getting late in the season and I am running out of money. I asked him at that time 1) Has he ever made a mistake with the US and could it be wrong? His answer was "NO". 2)If the mares were in foal could a foal live through all that infection, treatment etc. His answer was "NO, Impossible".

It is now April and guess what? I have two mares in foal. I called him last month and told him on the phone one mare looked like she was in foal. He said that it is impossible and I could just be mistaking it for a hay belly in early spring. I knew I hadn't, and that I had felt movement in her belly is what made me start looking at her closely. He assured me over the phone she couldn't be in foal. This is the 24 year old mare we are talking about that had the cysts. Well to make me feel better he said bring her in and he will check her. I did,he took one look at her and could see she looked in foal. Loaded her in the shoot and rectally palpated her and said "Bingo" she is. No explanation of how this could happen. But I was so happy I didn't think of anything else anyway. So what, he made a mistake and missed it, Ok. I went home happy. A few days later I started looking at my other mare, I could tell she had movement too or looked different. I started feeling her belly everyday for a week. I could feel the foal moving too. I couldn't believe this. Again I called him on the phone, he said he is sure this one is not in foal. She had the yeast infection and a real bad one. Tried to talk me out of bringing her in cause he knew I would get my hopes up but I insisted. Took her in, he looked at her and said no she doesn't look in foal. She is a stocky mare and he really wouldn't know she looked different only to me because I see her every day. But then he loaded her in the shoot and rectally palpated her too. She would not relax. She hated this. And she didn't give us that much trouble last year with all the treatment she went thru. Anyway he checked her for about two minutes and said "No not in foal, Sorry" But he then asked me if she had been bred in the last three months. I said No of course not. Because he felt her uterus and said it was about the size of a three month pregnancy. And it must be full of infection again. I told him but I can feel the foal kicking. He said no way. I asked him then can their intestines move that much that it feels like a foal kicking? He said yes and that is what I am probably feeling because she is not in foal.

Well now this is where I stand now, I have return rights for both mares if they are not in foal. One is he confirmed that. The other one he said no. So he told me either we have to treat the one with the infection again or bring another mare. Well I knew this mare was in foal. And after I had talked to the Stud owner she agreed also he is the vet (her vet too)so he should know what he is talking about. So I decided to take my third mare in and have her bred for the re-breed. The vet and the stud owner both agreed this would be better. And then I can treat the mare that has the infection when I am ready (to pour out more money) I guess.

Ok now my third mare in at the stallion station today getting bred. She is young and healthy, so I hope everything goes ok with her.

My questions are:
1) Is it possible for a foal to live through Prostin and Oxytocin shots, Novasan and Vinegar flushes, and Monistat treatment? SEVERAL DIFFERENT SESSIONS OF THESE TREATMENTS (costing me $85 a day). He says NO! But then had no explanation of my first mare being confirmed in foal.

2)I know an Ultrasound is only as good as it's operator, right? So they are not fool proof. And he said they don't make mistakes.

3) Is is possible when he checked the second mare just recently he could of been palpating her intestines and not her uterus or maybe it was very small when he felt it. But the foal is kicking really good now. And you can see it kick. He only checked her about 3 weeks ago. I know they put on 50% of their weight the last three months. She is now starting to really look in foal. I have calculated her due date June 16th.

4) Do you think these foals have a good chance of coming out normal and healthy with all the treatment they went through?

Dr., I love my vet and have always trusted him. He is close to me within 3 miles of my home so that is very convenient if I need him for an emergency. I want to continue to trust him in the future. He has told the Stud owner if he is wrong he will pay the third breeding himself $2000 and just laughed because he said he is not wrong. He is not arrogant and has not been rude to me at all. And I know he will stand by his word to pay the stud fee. The stud owner works in the same building as I do and we get along great. She is as confused as I am.

But how do I handle this, I don't think I should of been charged all that money for flushes and shots after the mares already conceived. I know I can't do anything until they both foal. And what I would like him to do is make an adjustment on my bill somehow for some of the treatment. Do you think I am entitled to a partial adjustment? I am not wanting to take him to court or anything like that. I don't want to loose him as my vet. But I am small time breeder just getting my horse business going, I bred to one of the best stallions I could afford (cutting and reining)but sure didn't have the money to throw out the window for treatment the mares may not have needed. Every one I have talked to about my mares said a foal could not live through all the treatments mine went through. And that he must be right.

After they "both" foal I would like him to sit down with me and explain how this all happened. When he told me right up front they couldn't conceive with a uterus full of infection. I am afraid he will first tell me "he paid for the stud fee so I should be happy I got a third breeding free" but not really, 1) I wasn't really planning to breed my younger mare yet but had to since he didn't believe my 2nd mare is in foal. 2) I have to pay Handling fees, board and now treatment (Regumate)on my younger mare to bring her into a real heat cycle.

Dr., I am sorry this is so long but wanted good advice of how to handle it without making my vet feel threatened. I want answers so does my husband. I think we are entitled to that. Do you think I am out of line by asking for an adjustment? If the mares foal on the dates I have calculated then that means they were in foal when he asked me if they acted any different after the first breedings. All the infection treatments came after that. Then the other breedings. Which almost makes the breedings a month apart from their first breeding on each mare.

I am out with my mares everynight feeling their flanks and bellies and waiting for the foals to move. I have raised foals before, this is not my first time but it was about 15 years ago and I had about 6 of them. I think I know the difference between a foal and an intestine. Intestines do not move side to side, or bump or kick at your hand in different places. I am not so dumb to walk up to the mare and think right away every movement is the foal. I know they have muscles too right near the flanks I can feel. And now you can stand back and watch the foal kick once in a while. Sometimes there is no movement at all. Also their udders are starting to swell. The first one is due in May and really starting to fill the second one I can see her udder starting to fill slightly but she isn't due until June. Also they both have a lot of gas, and the second one bites at her tummy when the foal kicks. She does not like it. It sometimes makes her cranky.

Thank You so much, I also love this website. I hope you can give me some advice on how to handle this sticky situation. I know vets are only human and can make mistakes. I worked for a small animal vet for 10 years so I know a little about animal health. I just want my vet to be honest with me and fair also. And one more thing the other vet that was treating my mares, She did 80% of the treatments, he was usually there working on other horses but overseeing her work. She is no longer there. I don't know why and haven't asked. But he is the one who did the ultrasounds and rectal palpations.

Thank You,
Linda K.

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2001 - 8:11 pm:

Hello Linda,
I think a lot of questions depend on what were the conception dates and what and when treatments were done after the estrus they conceived on. I have always found it difficult to accurately quess several months ahead of time when a mare was going to foal when the breeding dates where is question, so perhaps we will have to wait until they foal then back up 345 days to know which breeding they took on.
DrO

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 2:00 pm:

You said mares can be in or show signs of being in season when pregnant. One of my mares is 8 months pregnant or so as I thought but just recently she started lifting her tail urinating and winking at geldings so I am a little confused. Is she still pregnant if she`s showing these signs?

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 7:39 am:

Possibly, but possibly not, I would have her checked to be sure.
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2001 - 8:43 pm:

Hi Linda,

So what happened?!?!?!

Did both of your mares have babies? Was the older mare's foal healthy? What conclusions did you come to with your vet? Did the third mare get pregnant?

I am facinated by your story, and I'm dying to hear how everything got resolved....I hope it's a happy and healthy ending. :)

Daisy
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC