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Discussion on First Horse -- A Few Questions???
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 4:36 pm:
I just recently purchased a 5-year-old gelded quarter horse. Both of us are in training with a wonderful trainer who is offering lots of good advice. She's in the middle of a show for a week, so I'm posting here hoping for some well-rounded opinions. As for me, I rode years ago as a kid, and am just now coming back to horses after having raised my kids, so my knowledge and skills are very rusty.
This horse was previously owned by a woman who was afraid of him (possibly cuz he's young and quite pushy), and I'm told she abused and neglected him. She hit him while he was in his stall because of her fear, but most of time he just stood. She owned him for two of his five years and for one entire three-month period he never left his stall. This stall is a 22' by 22' box stall. It had a dirt floor and because money was tight for this prior owner, there were no shavings. There are now. GRIN. Consequently, this horse became extremely territorial about his home.
When I took possession of him a couple of weeks ago, the training began. The trainer rides him four days a week and lunges him once. I ride him for lessons three times a week and recently learned how to lunge him. It just amazes how quickly this horse has responded. He has come a long way in just a few weeks. Everyday I take him out and if he isn't ridden or lunged, he is groomed, and we smooze. He has a sweet disposition most of the time, but is wary of me still, as I am of him.
In the beginning he would pin his ears when I'd go to get him out of his stall. Once he bit me while I was leading him out. I yelled "no" to him, but didn't hit him, just showed him the rope. When I put him back in his stall, he tried to bite me again only this time I lightly flat-handed his jaw and he hasn't tried to bite me since. So far, patience and a calm voice has managed to reduce the frequency of his ear pinning. However, giving him treats in his stall had to stop because each time I'd approach he'd rush the gate for treats, not companionship, ears pinned. My trainer suggested I stop giving all treats in his stall, which I've done.
I'd like to continue giving him treats tho' while I'm grooming him in cross-ties or after he's been especially cooperative after lunging or cooperative while riding. When I do, he's pushy for more. How can I get him to accept my treats without becoming aggressive???
Also, recently we've added grain to his diet . . . Equine Senior. He needs a little extra weight but not extra energy. He has plenty of energy already. Last night when I tried to enter his stall to add the grain to his bin, he pinned his ears as before and was really excited to get the grain. This worried me so much, I was afraid to enter his stall at all and wound up just pouring the grain in his feeder from the outside. I felt like a chicken, but didn't wish to be mauled over a small can of grain. He LOVES this stuff and apparently has never been fed this before. Any suggestions?
I am anxious to give this horse a great home, complete with the exercise and attention he deserves, and don't want to make any mistakes.
Thanks in advance for any help any of you experts out there may have.
Paula
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 5:54 pm:
Hi Paula,
First Congratulations on your new best friend. 
But he seems to be becoming the boss. VERY quickly. Biting, lunges at you, pinning his ears, these are dominance and respect issues and you need to put a stop to it immediately. You are the leader of the herd.
Everything you have mentioned here that you want to change takes time. AND patience. Nothing is going to be done in big strides. Little baby steps. And sometimes not to your expectations.
It took me over a year to get my mare to stand still for me to clean her teats or get close enough to her ears. (Abused? or just hit one too many times in the head? )
But I went at my own pace. I read some theories, I tried new things, etc.
Your horse seems to have many issues but all seem to be just neglect related. And who can blame him. He was ignored.
I bet that a few months of consistent treatment by you will render a new personality in your horse.
Just don't let him BULLY YOU.
hope this helps a little. I remember how frustrated I was when i got my first horse.
Just keep asking and don't be afraid to use your common sense. And only do what you feel comfortable doing. Soon you'll get your horse sense back. and it becomes like a dance. He does this> you do that>.... chachahcha.
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 6:15 pm:
Paula,
Timing is everything. The trick is for you to train him and not he to train you!
For the time being, I'd put the grain in his tub through an opening if that is an option. I'd stop hand feeding him entirely and just give him some carrots in his feed tub at the end of my visit. You want to be VERY consistent or he will be nosing around for a treat constantly. If you must enter the stall to feed him grain, I'd put the hay in first and then carry the grain in a few minutes later. If he crowded me, I'd face him, make a startling noise (a whoosh works well) and raise my arms - making me look big to back him off. This type of technique really should be worked on in the round pen. Lead the hors and turn and "whoosh" him back if he follows behind you too closely. You can make this a game, where as you turn he stops. It helps if you have someone show this to you - a lot of the natural horsemen do this.
If you want to reward him at another time, such as when he is in the cross ties, just say good boy and stroke his wither a time or two. The last thing you want to encourage is nippiness to slipping him treats frequently.
Later, when he is more secure and understanding of the rules, you may want to experiment with a form of clicker training. This is where one "marks" the desired behavior with something like a whistle, click, etc. and the animal knows that means he was doing something desireable and will get a treat for it. No click, no treat. You can search this site and see lots written on clicker training and some urls to web sites devoted to it.
Sounds like he's found a great mum. Good luck with him.
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 9:51 pm:
Paula,
Congratulations! Sounds like you've got a nice horse. I agree with you that since he's spent so much time in his stall, he's territorial.
I also agree with Christine, no hand feeding right now. As far as the ear pinning when you go in to feed grain, I have a filly that does the same thing. However even with ears pinned, neck bowed and really excited, she stands back(a few inches) to let me pour in the grain. I don't demand that she look happy about standing back, only that she does it. However I did swing the feed bucket at her one time to let her know that she couldn't crowd me.
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2001 - 3:48 am:
Hi Paula
Well done you for taking on this difficult case. I think you've had lots of great advice from other people. I just want to say one thing for safety. If you have to go into the stall when the horse is behaving aggressively, please take a stick with you. This does not mean you have to beat or be nasty to your horse in any way.
It means you have your "ammunition" ready before tackling the horse, that you will be more confident, and that the chance of your having to smack the horse will actually be reduced because he will pick up your confidence.
If you do have to use it I'd recommend a "bonk" on the nose with the handle end of the stick as being gentle from a physical point of view but highly psychologically effective on the horse.
It is absolutely vital that you do establish a new pattern of behaviour with this horse. I feel sure from your posts that you will be able to do this. Do bear in mind though that this horse has probably been very unfit, and you are now fittening and feeding it - it could have a spell of being quite sassy in a few weeks time which will not be because you are doing anything wrong, but because the horse is feeling a lot better in itself.
All the best
Imogen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2001 - 6:42 am:
Paula,
"Ditto" to everything Imogen has said. I find it easier to use a leaDrOpe, which I keep folded loosely in my hand. I hold the snap in my fist. When I have a "tough case," whether it be in the pasture or in a stall or pen, I give a move cue and a flip of my hand upward toward the horse as I am stepping toward it, and if the horse doesn't move away, I repeat the cue as I flip the leaDrOpe toward the horse's chest. I prefer the leaDrOpe to a stick for a few reasons: it is always in the barn or paddock area along with the halters; it is long enough for me to make contact with the horse yet maintain a safe distance if the horse should decide to kick out; there is little risk of the rope poking the horse or causing damage.
It might be difficult to make yourself do it, but resolve to not step back from the horse in your body or mind when she shows aggressive tendencies. When you are working around her, her space becomes your space. Of course, you maintain a respect for the animal's emotional well-being, but she needs to know that you are the alpha horse, so use the leaDrOpe and move away cues with confidence. If a particularly snooty horse (and usually it is a mare, in my experience) throws her nose out toward me or shakes her head at me when I approach, I give a rush of my body toward her and use a rough voice cue along with my arms out and the leaDrOpe to send the message that the horse made the wrong choice. It only takes a few times to get the message across, but try to never back away from the horse's aggressive attitude, because it will reinforce the attitude in the horse. Have fun.
Holly
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2001 - 1:37 pm:
Many to thanks to all of you who responded to my post. I appreciate your time and expertise. I will work on the confidence issue (mine) and work to teach Tyler to understand he must allow me some space. He just has SOOO much energy. Way more than when I bought him only two weeks ago. I think Imogen is right on the money. He's getting into better shape, eating well and feeling much better. Even my trainer said the other day while I was riding him he wasn't just plodding along, he was lifting his feet and trotting like he's a happy horse.
Last night when I arrived to see him, he was waiting for me at the gate, anxious to leave his stall for the first time. He even helped me put on his halter by pushing his nose right into it. Made me laugh outloud. I decided to lunge him to work off some of this pent-up energy. Boy, was I in for a surprise. All was going very well until another horse nearby was turned out and started charging the fences. This got Tyler all riled up. He started bucking and running (not cantering anymore) and it took all I had to hang onto him. I pulled on the lunge line and he stopped dead in his tracks and faced me. Scarey stuff being on the other end of a lunge line, 20 feet from a young 1000 pound horse, who is flaring his nostrils, breathing hard and pawing the ground. I had the lunge whip in my hand and got him going again, but it was either him running hard and bucking or standing still and facing me . . . no in between. Then one of my trainer's helpers (who had been watching from a distance, thankfully) stepped into the round pen and gave me a few pointers on what to do when things reach this point. She told me to keep him moving all the while pulling on the lunge line with short jerks. Correct? Any comments are welcome and please be critical. I didn't like that fearful feeling that came over me. Don't want it back again.
On the topic of the grain . . . again, many thanks for the pointers. No more hand feeding until he gets a little older and all the rules have been in place for awhile. I think I'm going to get a grain bucket that can be placed in his stall from outside until I get him to respect my space. As mentioned, time and patience. I'll try the leaDrOpe/stick idea and the "whoosh". Actually, I tried the "whoosh" only I said "booga booga" (I hadn't received replies to my post at this time yet) and he backed off. In fact, he jumped in place, put his ears straight up and looked very confused. But I didn't have his grain with me then, I was just entering to muck his stall. I think it's going to take a few episodes such as this to penetrate.
Once again, many thanks to all of you. This is such a great site. :o)
Paula
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2001 - 9:24 pm:
When staring down the barrel of a 1000 pound horse high on health; fear is a good thing, it means you respect that you are tiny and if he wanted, he could squish you. Loosly translated as "common sense" Congratulations! this IMO is the most useful thing anyone working with horses can have.
Best of luck, you will get great satisfaction when the diamond starts to appear in the rough.
(sounds like a fortune cookie quote:-))
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2001 - 8:06 am:
You could try lunging in side reins (begin very slowly, don't put them too tight at first). They will teach him to go in a nice frame, reaching for the bit and give him somehting to think about....
The behavior you describe sounds like a typical response of a horse who's in a paddock/pasture and is playing with his buddy (either in the same paddock or next door). In lunging the horse needs to become focused on you not whatever else is going on (easier said then done ). When my horse is being silly (i.e., two days ago when all those 'scary' leaves were falling off the trees) I do lots of transitions to keep him wondering what I"m going to ask next. I vary the number of strides at each gait before I ask for transition. Unless a horse is acting very aggressive towards you they are not likely to charge. Tyler's response sounds more like a horse who's in a high state of excitement. It means you need to be careful, but you're more likely to be injured by him doing something inadvertently then deliberately attacking. Another trick I use to slow my horse if he's being silly is to make the lunge circle smaller. He has to slow his pace to maintain the circle. Once he is control I let the line out again for the larger circle. YOu don't want to do this a lot at a fast pace as it's hard on the joints. Usually it only takes a few times fo bringing them in smaller, slowing them down and then letting them back out again for them to get teh idea.
good luck
Teresa
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2001 - 1:16 pm:
Thank you Julie and Teresa. I think you're both right. Tyler WAS in a heightened state of excitement, and he's still a diamond in the rough. Honestly, I don't think he has a mean bone, just highly exciteable . . . but we're still getting to know and trust each other, so we'll see. I'll try the smaller lunging circle next time I'm looking to be scared senseless. Only kidding, but I do think I'll wait to try that again until there are more people around. The stable is very empty right now because everyone is at a show. Thanks to all who offered advice. I think I'm going to be a beginner at this for the rest of my life!
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2001 - 3:12 pm:
You can train him not to stop and face you on the lunge line. I was told that was an important thing to do so that when you put them in long lines they don't get tangled up trying to face you.
The way I've trained 2 hot fillies to not face me is to bore them to death. At the end of your work session, ask him to whoa. If he turns to face you, make him move on at a walk. Walk awhile, ask for whoa. Once again, walk on if he faces you. And of course when he stops without facing you(and he will) tons of praise!
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