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Discussion on Training to neck rein
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Member:
Wendy
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 22, 2003 - 11:21 pm:
You could take her along with other horses on the trail and use the "off" rein as you are turning (naturally). My 3 year old picked up on neck reining very quickly by this simple technique. Of course, you would apply light pressure to the direct rein and decrease pressure with each lessen, until she associates turning with only the neck rein.
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 - 12:27 pm:
Hi,
If she's stiff in the neck, try this method: From the ground, stand at her side holding her lead rope. Put tension on the rope by pulling up towards her wither. As soon as she gives to the pressure, DrOp the lead to release. Then try again. Eventually she will bring her head all the way to her girth and hold it there on a fairly relaxed lead. Then you can do the same with the bridle, assuming that there is no problem with her teeth. Before long all you will need to do is just suggesting with a slight upward movement and she'll bend her head and neck around. I do this with my mustang regularly and he has become so light mouthed I barely have to touch him. It is very important to immediately realease the pressure when you get even the slightest give. This is very similar to carrot stretches but keeps them from getting grabby.
Keep in mind that most horses have one stiff side and one flexible side so it's important to work both sides individually. It might be in your best interest to go back to the basics with ground driving until she responds right away to your direct reins in both directions and backing before starting to neck rein.
I'm now teaching the mustang to neck rein and I bridge the reins and apply both pressures at the same time. He's coming along very well and I'm sure your mare will as well.
Don't give up hope. Good luck
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Member:
Jeans
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 - 7:59 pm:
Hi, I appreciate the level of experience, thus have a question for the experienced horseperson out there: I have a lovely young QH mare (4 year old)that moves beautifully, and we have begun to learn dressage, but I really think she'd like to be a cow horse (which I know nothing about, but it looks fun and I am willing to learn.) Is it possible to have an all-around horse that will respond to dressage aids while riding English, and neck-reining while riding Western, or would this be too confusing for a horse? I have so much fun with her because she is such a sweethart, and want her to enjoy our time together. She likes being out on the trail, and likes to chase the dogs around, so I think she'd enjoy the variety of work. Also,I want to build her up, not break her down (keep her healthy and sound.) Any input is greatly appreciated, Jeani.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 - 11:22 pm:
Go for it, Jeani.
Yes, you can have a horse that does both. A soft responsive horse under English tack can be a soft responsive horse under Western tack . . . and vice versa.
Most youngsters are trained first with direct reining . . . and learn neck reining (or indirect reining) . . . they don't forget the direct rein, so you can alternate back and forth. A horse that learns to respond to indirect rein can do it with a curb or snaffle . . . I prefer to ride with a snaffle, and am still able to neck rein with the polo horses I ride . . .
The dressage training you have given your horse will serve you both well in any discpline . . .
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Member:
Jeans
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2004 - 8:36 pm:
Thanks for the exciting news, Holly!
Jeani.
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New Member:
Irvincd
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 15, 2006 - 2:44 pm:
Question to those big guys out there concerning girth strap tightness.
I have been heavy all my life 6.1 feet 210 lbs in high school. Then I could jump up on the horse from the rear like Jean Autry and Roy. After retiring from the Marine Corps at 230 lbs in 2000 I have had more time to ride horses and due to injuries, I also have had time to gain more weight! (280 lbs).
My younger days I had to tighten the strap a bit if I wanted the saddle to stay straight while getting on. Now I have to really crank on it and use a good strap that doesn’t slide when wet.
I ride a Belgian for my main ride and he don’t seem to really care although he does let me know when it’s tight enough.
Loosing weight would be nice but when I do get it back off I plan to be happy at about 240-250 at 45.
I mostly trail ride and I don’t always have something or time to find something to stand on and I count on that stirrup to get me up now!
Really my only reason to post such a long line is I have a new green broke 5 year old that I saddled for me for the first time to teach him the trails and water and all that so I know who can ride him. Well he came of the ground with all four legs and back down and I thought he would pass out as he leaned back. I loosened up and removed the saddle to re check under it and found nothing. I saddled him back up and didn’t make it hardly as tight but tight enough as to get on and off on the trail as I did a couple of times and had a great educational ride for both of us.
I never seen a horse do what he did that was clean under the saddle with no sore withers and good saddle fit. I am concerned about things I might not know. I usually tighten up, walk the horse around and tighten up some more and hit the trail.
Any inputs critical or not will be appreciated.
Thanks
Carl
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 15, 2006 - 4:31 pm:
Hey Carl,
Sounds like you're lucky that's all a green horse did going up in the air. Work him up slow and let him get used to the tighter cinch, horse's are naturally sensitive to anything tight around their barrel.
I'd strongly suggest a mounting block, it's a lot easier on any horse's back. Even out in the woods it's not too hard to find a good rock or log. You'll probably have to teach the new horse to stand still next to an object but they get the drill pretty quick.
Good day,
Alden
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 15, 2006 - 11:14 pm:
Carl, I too am a big guy and in my view there is no such thing as a girth too tight and even our squirreliest pasos don't mind when I crank down as long as it is done gradually. I have also found that neoprene girths with stretchy ends grip better. However, too climb up on my 16.1 TWH I am usually looking for a ditch or a stump to make the hop up easier.
DrO
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 8:56 am:
O.K. wow. The weight topic has been broached - maybe it has before but I have not seen it.
I too am heaver than I should be. 190 pounds - for a woman that is a lot. When my navicular synDrOme mare (that you have heard me talk about Dr. O) first was sore my vet suggested that although I probably did not cause the problem my weight was not helping it. The mare is a 16 hand appendix QH. She is much more TB like than QH like with very fine legs. Well, this devastated me. Since this time I have been paranoid about stepping on something that is not built like a tank - afraid I am going to hurt it.
My question is - How do I know when a horse is able to carry my weight without being injured by it? This issue has made me so self conscious.
Ella 
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 10:29 am:
I don't know the answer to your question Ella, but I too was told by the first vet to *mis* diagnose my horse with ringbone that I would be too heavy for him at 167 pounds (my boy is 15.3 hands and 1190 pounds). It devastated me, I didn't want to hurt my boy either. I have since received 4 other opinions on the weight factor and they all disagreed.
Get a second opinion... and (((hugs))) to you...I felt as you do for 3 months and it wasn't fun.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 10:33 am:
Ella,
I think it depends on the horse, I'm 220lbs and I have six horses ranging from 15hd to 17.1hd. I ride a lot in the mountains here in Colorado, I think if my weight were gonna cause lameness I would be seeing it and I'm not having any problems. My Arabian is only 15.1hd and he carries me like I was light as a feather and doesn't slow down all day. But on the other hand one MFT gelding is about the same size and is lazy as the day is long, he's tired before we hit the end of the drive ; but he's never acted like anything hurt him with me up there.
I have no personal experience with Navicular SynDrOme, but I thought it was related more with hoof care, the manner and angles of trimming and shoeing, etc, than what the horse is carrying. But I maybe mistaken, not having any horses with that problem I haven't studied it that much.
At 190lbs Ella I would hesitate to put you up on any of my horses. I have one 15hd MFT gelding, he's carried 260lbs several times and never showed any lameness, but he doesn't do that day after day all summer long. Maybe if he did he'd be lame too.
I think it's a good practice for everyone, even you lightweights, to use a mounting block or depression when mounting.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Janette
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 10:42 am:
Hi All,
I do beg Dr.O's pardon, but we dont' have any squirrelly Pasos.
Janette Oglesby
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New Member:
Irvincd
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 12:11 pm:
Mrs. Oglesby, I know you don’t have any squirrelly Pasos!
Dr. O thanks for the inputs, that’s the way I have always done it. But when that young Palomino came up on all fours and came down I really thought he was gona faint! And someone standin there said they had read about really hurting a horse like that so I thought I should ask since there is this site that I really love! I hope to ride him again today, he is a good boy and I want to get him ready for Debbie on the trails.
I also have a nice big TWH like yours and he don’t cry when I tighten him down. He is shaped so like a barrel it is hard to keep the saddle straight if its not tight. I do the little ARAB the same when someone rides him. Both are hard to keep a saddle tight on.
ELLA
I have a 17-year-old Q horse with NAVICULAR. I had a 900.00 plus lameness test done on him at the Vet school of Med in NC. He gets bute when he needs it. If he is OK that day we ride him and he likes it. I try and put the lightest person on him but he handles me well. I don’t let anyone do more than light trail riding. Sometimes one of the boys will run him a bit.
I think people and horses will suffer from the things they do through out there life and a lighter pack is better threw it all. However the DR told us and it makes since to me, ride him! If he is able it will help keep his weight down and keep him in shape. Im glad no one makes me stay home when they see me hit the floor in the AM. I almost need a walker until I am out of the shower! Then I am ready to go! If he isn’t limping or tripping allot the damage is already there and the weight of a good healthy women shouldn’t make it worse. I have learned to make sure Dude is having a good day before we go, administer Bute a bit before the ride and if we trailer carry a spare horse or be ready to stop if he starts to limp. I don’t go further than I want to walk back on him. He has a lot more good days than bad and this is been going on for years. Get the best shoes for him you can. We have a guy coming this month who says he has just the shoe for Dude and I cant wait to see if it helps. The next thing after that will be the digital stuff. Good luck and I know your pain. Ole Dude likes to go and is a proud 16 hands and 1200 lbs and I notice no difference in when he is lightly rode or not, regardless if I ride him or one of the kids or Debbie. He is an Alpha horse.
Carl
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Member:
Liliana5
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 12:40 pm:
Hi Carl,
What breed is your horse?
Liliana
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Member:
Liliana5
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 12:58 pm:
Scarlet 15hh mare went straight back and fell on the rider injuring her back, (needles to say the rider was a bit flattened too!) as a green five y.o., when the girth was yanked tight by a careless rider, The corners of her mouth were cut by the bit giving her a huge grin , pretty bad really.
Three years down the line after rehab, if I don't tighten the girth really slowly and circle her rider less before mounting, she will throw herself backwards in a panic!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 1:15 pm:
Hi all,
Just a thought here regarding a heavier rider on a horse. I'm not sure the weight of the rider is so much a factor (within reason - you wouldn't want to put a 200 lb person on a small pony). I think it's more a matter of how well the rider is balanced on the horse. I've seen a heavier, but skilled and balanced rider influence a horse beautifully. Put a light weight rider who is not balanced on the same horse and the horse moves with a hollow back and head high in the air.
I compare it to giving my daughter a piggy-back ride. When she's centered and balanced on my back, I can carry her all day long (well, almost...). When she decides to lean way back or to the side, my back starts screaming and I dump her into the nearest soft couch or chair!
Gotta "ditto" what everyone said regarding a mounting block. Intuitively, it just seems easier on the horse. Even tho I am a fairly light adult, my mare pins her ears and swishes her tail on the rare occasion when I heave myself up into the saddle. 99% of the time I use a mounting block, and I don't get any negative reaction from her at all.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 2:01 pm:
Carl - you made me laugh when you mentioned the walker! I've often thought it's a darn good thing they don't put people down like they do horses; my husband would have had me put down long ago!
Fran - I agree with you on the weight vs. balance. A light weight rider banging around like a sack of potatoes on a horses back can really be painful for the horse. Also, you can't judge how much a horse can carry just by looking at his size. Some of those little stocky ponies were bred to carry and pull lots of weight compared to their size. The horse's conformation plays a big part; a short backed, stocky horse can carry more than a longer backed, lighter built horse.
Of course, we all know it's not healthy for us to be overweight. A lot of us should be running along side our horses instead of riding them! (and, I'll include myself in that group. Between being laid up for quite a while and old age, I've packed on some extra, too.!)
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Member:
Irvincd
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 3:25 pm:
All
Thanks for all your inputs and I will go on doin what I am doing and be sure not to do it all at once. Especially on a green broke. Normally I tighten up, walk the horse around and tighten up some more, I didn’t on the young green broke Palomino and when he came back down to the ground I really thought he would faint as he leaned way back. It was strange and scary and made me sad for young Luke.
Liliana
The horse I ride mostly is my Belgian (Big Ben) the horse I did this too is a Palomino QH 15. H (Luke), I have had 3 weeks. I like him allot and am so glad he didn’t fall on back like your horse. He sure looked like he was going to, almost like he had a shot to put him down. But I did give it to him all at once like I usually do Big Ben.
All
For what its worth that was the second time I had ridden Luke and he didn’t do it the first time. I hope he never does it again.
Thanks again to all
Carl
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 4:27 pm:
Why is this posted under neck reining? Or am I the only one getting these posts about girth tightening, and overweight riders, under this subject?
Hmmmm...anyhow, my husband is 6' tall, and 220 and rode a small Arab for years. She carried him well but I always worried for her sake because he was/is just an average rider. I have some friends who are overweight and they both ride lighter than I do in the saddle. Not that I am slim myself, but they apparently have more talent and flexibility than I do.
And I agree with using the Neoprene cinches, and a breast collar too! I hate having a saddle go alley oop!!!
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 16, 2006 - 8:38 pm:
Thank you all for your support! Aileen, it is nice to know that someone else understands! I unfortunately know what it feels like to be both light and heavy. I lost my thyroid with a pregnancy and went from 135 to my current weight and can not get it off even with medication. I am a good rider (Used to ride hunters and jumpers on the NEHC circuit) but can feel the difference myself with my balance and ability to ride with my seat and legs. I don't bump around though (at least I don't think so - lol).
I am (hopefully) purchasing a Draft/TB cross (posts about it under abscess in possible purchase) that I know can handle my weight with no problems. I've got to figure that the exercise I get riding has got to be better than sitting and wishing I was on top!
Thanks again,
Ella
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Mar 17, 2006 - 12:02 am:
Good Luck Carl with your cinch issues....and Ella I have sent you an email to your email address listed on your profile....you've got mail.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Mar 17, 2006 - 7:50 am:
I don't know about that JanetteO, that one you ride was sitting perched in the oak tree yesterday chewing on acorns.
DrO
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Member:
Janette
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Posted on Friday, Mar 17, 2006 - 9:33 am:
DrO, I thought that you said that would make him largo faster.
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Member:
Irvincd
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Posted on Friday, Mar 17, 2006 - 2:56 pm:
Angie
It’s my bad that it is under Neck reining. I am new on the site and went to Training horses and posted it and really can’t tell you why. Sorry, I will try and do better next time.
I did get the answers I needed and rode the horse last night for a bit and he did OK once I got on him!
I am still concerned about how he acted in comparison to Liliana’s Scarlet. He did almost fall back that day not out of panic but like I said its like he had a shot of something.
Either way thanks again all and I will tighten up a little at a time like ya said Dr. O and let you know if I have any more events with this issue.
Ella I never got your E Mail. I don’t know what you sent but I was disappointed! My email is carl.Irvin@navy.mil
Thanks again all
Carl
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Friday, Mar 17, 2006 - 4:13 pm:
Carl, your story reminded me of an incident similar to yours that happened several years ago.
I was saddling a 16 year old veteran show horse and my non-horsey aunt happened to be there. Topper (the horse) immediately upon tightening girth (which was not tight at all) leaned back on tie rope and went down. I had to cut the tie rope to get him back up. It was a one time thing, never happened before or afterwards. My aunt was scared to death, she thought he was going to die, and I wondered if Topper knew it would scare her and was why he did it-lol
Horses never cease to amaze me.
Chris
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 18, 2006 - 8:56 am:
It's o.k. Carl,
seems everyone reads almost every post so you got the advice you needed. Usually DrO comments and tells us where to post things correctly so that had me wondering if it was just me getting the post under the wrong subject matter. I have noticed sometimes I don't get all the postings and click on one that has been going for a few days....and why didn't get the previous ones, I have no clue....hmmm...
See, now I am off subject!! It's easy to do.
Good luck, and welcome to HA!!
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 18, 2006 - 11:09 am:
Hi Carl,
Just wanted to add that something like that happened to a good friend of mine, when she took her gelding to a barn for a class.
She was late for her lesson and in a hurry. She tightened the girth (english saddle) all at once and her gelding went down in back - almost sitting like a dog. The trainer happened to see this and said that he had witnessed this behaviour before. She is more careful when tightening the girth and has never had this happen again.
Lilo
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 - 9:30 am:
We usually don't get persnickity about posting until you continue to post in others folks' discussions. I am not sure I understand the problem that Angie is describing but in her profile she can adjust her settings. Or she may be going to a post where the previous posts where made prior to her setting her profile to receive emails from that discussion?
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 - 4:19 pm:
Hey Carl, I had a different girthing problem but essentially the same thought about tightening the girth. Several people suggested those no-slip saddle pads (You can also use the stuff they sell to anchor throw rugs--it's cheaper and you cut it to size), also the neoprene girth that Dr. O suggests is a little stickier than some. They help keep the saddle from moving so youdon't have to cinch up as tightly. At all costs avoid sheepskin liners! They will have you hanging under your horse's belly in an instant!
PS- as I've mentioned before, you should see the size of the horses in Mongolia carrying grown men around. Looks like the men could carry the little horses easier, but heck, that Ghengis Khan was a pretty successful rider using those ponies!
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