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  Discussion on Bits versus Hackamores
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Posted on Friday, Mar 30, 2001 - 10:32 pm:

Hi can someone help me with all the bits? I have a 3/4 arab 1/4 pinto 6yr old gelding. I first trained him in a rubber bit he chewed the rubber off of it. Then someone told me to use a french link snaffle because of the arab in him it might work well it works but he spends to much time chomping on it he is costantly playing with his bits his teeth are fine so I know its not that. He I think over foams at the mouth I know some is ok. Now I am using a hackmore on him always trying to use the gentlest bits on him. Now someone told me to try a bit with rollers on it to give him something to play with in his mouth, I dont know what to do all the one Ive seen have copper on them I dont think he needs cooper in his mouth, HELP i could open a tack shop with all my bits!

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 8:26 am:

Hi Gina,

why not try a plain loose ring snaffle bit? I've used rubber and have now switched to a french link loose ring snaffle and my horse loves it.Wouldn't a bit with rings encourage him to play more with the bit and isn't that what you don't want?


Teresa

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 11:33 am:

Sometimes a horse will carry a bit "quieter" if you change where it is in his mouth - you can experiment with raising/lowering the French one you have and see if it helps.

Sometimes a bit can be too thick for a small mouthed horse and that causes fussiness.

Sometimes an "egg butt" style at the cheek pieces will help a horse keep a quieter mouth.

I would try to bit as simply as possible and stick with plain stainless steel.

You also want to be sure the bit isn't too wide or narrower for your horse's mouth - if it is too wide it can DrOop and cause fussiness and if it is too narrow it can pinch.

The ideal would be a horse that carries the bit quietly, but gets a nice "lipstick" of foam on his lips - showing he is salivating.

Personally, I think a rubber mouthpiece inhibits foaming and they are usually too thick.

Depending on where your horse is in his training, it may take a while for him to quiet and settle with any bit.

And, of course, any bit is only as good as the hands and seat that are attached to it.

It is tempting to go to the hardware store when the horse is fussy with his mouth, but if you have a fairly standard bit that is in the right place in the horse's mouth and is the right width, repeated bit purchases usually don't make a difference.

That is when you want to work on the connection from the rider.

Good luck.

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 2:32 pm:

Gina

Hackamores are incorrectly thought to be mild due to the lack of a bit. They are in fact extremely severe and seem an odd choice in your situation.

What sort of rubber bit were you using? Although some people agree with Chris, and even say that they deaden the horse's mouth over time, I think a soft rubber mullen (one piece) bit is excellent for a horse which pulls but has a soft mouth. You do have to check them regularly because they do wear out, but the soft rubber ones are dead cheap.

French link snaffles are very good with many horses; also eggbutt snaffles as Chris mentions. I also think these days many plain snaffle bits like these are made too thin. A nice thick eggbutt snaffle is gentler on the horse than a thin one which inevitably has a sharper effect. Do check on the width as Chris suggested - every horse is different.

I found this book very good when I was learning about bits:

Snaffles by Carolyn Henderson
ISBN 1-900667-20-7
Published by Compass Equestrian Limited in 1997
Eardley House
4 Uxbridge Street
Farm Place
London W8 7SY

Hope you find something that works which is milder than the hackamore!

All the best

Imogen

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 3:23 pm:

I found that the thicker bit didn't work well with my welsh as he has a thick tongue and low palete so he did well with a thinner french link (he has a sensative mouth). You really have to look at your horses mouth and shape. I agree with Chris that a good seat and hands are the most important.

Kim

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 4:04 pm:

Imogen, why do you consider a hackamore severe? thanks. Wayne

Posted on Monday, Apr 2, 2001 - 6:35 pm:

I posed the following question to Dr. Cook, the inventor of the bitless bridle. I thought some of you might find this interesting, helpful, and at least provocative.

I myself ride 3 of my horses bitless...including a 3 1/2 year old colt horse that has been under saddle for about 10 weeks. Nothing to demanding. Mostly just equipping him with brakes and steering. he will stop on a voice command...as will my others.

I've used bits for years. Frankly they never made sense to me, and presently my horses respond just as well without them.

Enjoy. Wayne Wride

Dr. Cook, I belong to a horse advice website, and a lot of people
believe that a bit or something in the horse's mouth encourages it to
salivate and that is good for the horse. What are your thoughts about
that in light of the bitless bridle. Does the horse salivate? Should it?
Thanks. Wayne >>

Hello Wayne:

The short answer is that, yes, a bit in the horse's mouth DOES encourage the
horse to salivate. However, this is counterproductive for the reasons
attached. See the long answer below, extracted from one of my articles.
There is more information on our website at www.bitlessbridle.com

Regards,

Bob Cook

The Bits Effect on the Respiratory System

In common with all mammals, horses have evolved to either eat or run. They
are not equipped to do both simultaneously. The anatomical crossover of the
digestive and respiratory pathways at the level of the pharynx dictates that
the two activities are mutually incompatible. And yet this is what we have
been expecting of a horse for the last 6000 years.

As soon as a bit is placed in a horse's mouth, the horse is being signaled,
physiologically, to 'think eat'. Accordingly, the seal of the lips is
broken, and reflex salivation commences, together with movement of the lips,
jaw and tongue. These are digestive system responses, dominated by the
parasympathetic nervous system. But now a rider mounts and asks for motion.
As a result, the horse is simultaneously being signaled to 'think exercise'.
Accordingly, an entirely opposite set of 'fight and flee' reflexes are
initiated, dominated by the sympathetic nervous system. As the horse is an
obligate nose-breathing animal, stimulation of the oral cavity during
exercise has to be counter-productive.

>From this I conclude that, at exercise, the horse suffers from neurological
confusion, as its nervous system is trying to respond to two conflicting
requirements, each tugging in the opposite direction. A horse can either
graze or gallop but it should not be expected to do both at the same time.
To summarize, the bit method of control initiates a set of responses that are
diametrically opposed to those required for exercise. Eating and exercising
are two mutually exclusive activities.

· For eating, the horse needs to salivate and therefore has a wet mouth
(parasympathetic)
For galloping, salivation should be in abeyance and the horse should have a
relatively dry mouth (sympathetic)

· For eating, the horse needs to be in a relaxed frame of mind, dominated
by cholinergic responses
For galloping, it needs to "â€| stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood â€| set
the teeth, and stretch the nostril wide", a state of mind dominated by
adrenergic responses

· For eating, the horse needs an open mouth and it is physiological for air
to be present in the oral cavity and oropharynx.
For galloping, its lips should be sealed and there should be no air in the
oral cavity. The presence of air constitutes a hazard. Because of the
orientation of the head, air will tend to creep upwards and invade the
oropharynx. Tongue and jaw movement will encourage this process. Air now
breaks what should be a natural seal between the root of the tongue and the
soft palate. Dorsal movement of the soft palate on its cushion of air will
cause stenosis of the nasopharynx and the galloping horse may develop
inspiratory stridor (become 'thick in its wind' or a 'roarer'). Once air is
present in the cavities above and below the soft palate, aerodynamic
conditions are favorable to the development of soft palate vibration during
galloping. This will be especially likely to occur if the head is flexed (as
when the horse is being 'rated') and the soft palate is no longer under
longitudinal tension. The soft palate may start flapping like a wet blanket
in the wind and the vibration may become audible ('gurgling'). Subsequently
the soft palate may become dislocated from the ventral half of the ostium
intrapharyngium (dorsal displacement of the soft palate) and the horse will
asphyxiate ('choke-up).

· For eating, the horse needs a mobile jaw, tongue and lips. As the tongue
and larynx are both suspended from the base of the skull by the hyoid
apparatus, any movement of the tongue inevitably results in movement of the
larynx. During swallowing, the larynx shifts its position.
For galloping, it needs immobility of all these structures. Referring to the
above example, it becomes apparent that a constant backward and forward
shuffling of the larynx is incompatible with laminar airflow through the rima
glottidis. Such movement would also imperil the airtight seal at the level
of the ostium intrapharyngium, so predisposing to dorsal displacement of the
soft palate.
· For eating (swallowing), the horse needs a mobile and dorsally elevated
soft palate
For galloping it needs an immobile and ventrally placed soft palate

· For eating, the horse enlarges its oropharynx at the expense of the
nasopharynx
For galloping it enlarges the nasopharynx at the expense of the oropharynx

· For eating, the horse needs its head at ground level.
For galloping, it needs its head to be raised.

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 3, 2001 - 8:45 am:

Gina--in spite of all the chewing and foaming, how does your horse go in these bits? Is he too busy chomping on the French link to listen to your aids, or does he do what you ask but you're annoyed by the sound of the rattling bit? When I switched to the French link, I was surprised at all that rattling and clanking going on, but it quiets down when we get down to work, and my horse goes well in the bit, which I guess is the whole point.

About hackamores, from The Manual of Horsemanship, The (British)Pony Club: the hackamore "has no mouthpiece but acts by leverage on the nose, poll and chin-groove. Although the mouth area is not affected by the hackamore, it should be realised that the nose, poll and chin-groove are all delicate, highly sensitive areas, and are just as easily damaged." It goes on to suggest that prolonged, inexpert use of the hackamore can cause severe, possibly permanent injuries, but that "in the hands of an expert it is sometimes effective" on a horse with a problem mouth. My South African guide to bits calls the hackamore "a precision tool for the expert horseman with a pair of delicate hands." I would deduce that the hackamore CAN be severe if not used with care. Also, there are hackamores and then there are hackamores; some are more potentially severe than others.

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 3, 2001 - 8:52 am:

Dr. O - I'd love to hear your perspective on this, with all the eclectic contributions, I'm enjoying looking at things in new ways. Interesting..

Of course, we've been told that human beings shouldn't do two mutually exclusive things at the same time - run with scissors, talk with our mouths full, drink and drive, etc. Yet, if you read the debate in the Towing Vehicle section about manual vs. automatic transmission, it's clear that we've evolved beyond that. Why, many of us can drive a truck towing a trailer while talking on our cell phone, drinking coffee, eating a breakfast sandwich, changing radio stations, hollering to our horses on the intercom, yelling at drivers around us, and picking up change on the floor for the toll booth. Perhaps our equine friends have evolved as well.

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 3, 2001 - 11:36 am:

I don't profess to be an expert on bits or hackamores, and I don't dispute that a hackamore in the wrong hands, like any piece of equipment in the wrong hands, can be severe and abusive.

But I've seen more horses jerked around, abused, and made crazy by bits than I like to think about. In fact, I believe that a lot of riders rely on harsh bits to control a horse, when what they really need is some patient training.

I'm not excusing the abusive use of a hackamore, but I can't think of anything more severe and damaging than somebody jerking a piece of metal with levers on it, around in a horse's mouth. I've seen some of these poor horses' mouths bleed.

I vote for patience and training...and a willing horse with a great disposition. Wayne

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 4, 2001 - 9:13 am:

Mary,
Thanks for the request but I have to admit, I have never used a hackamore so must defer. I have never considered them severe but as noted above you can turn anything into a weapon.

Dr Cook's thoughts are interesting and I can't say that they are not true but I think they are the results of "thought experiments" and not actual physiological measurements. At least I have not seen any such work. I would love to have all folks out there with Soft Palate Displacement try a bitless bridle to see if the problem stops and report back. If bitless bridles would allow horses to go better, you would think the flat racing industry would catch on to this before too long.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 4, 2001 - 10:14 am:

Re: the bitless bridle - I checked out Dr. Cook's website and looked at the testimonials from the various disciplines, including the flat racing folks. They spoke about resistance by riders and trainers to try them, but interesting successes, generally used on problem horses. Then I searched the web and found that Tuft Vet School's newsletter announced they had acquired what looked to be the same bridle. I'd be curious to see how it worked out for them - anyone have any connections at Tufts?

Regarding bits in general, during my search, I found the most detailed, yet succinct explanation of all types of bits and bit materials (and hackamores) that I have ever seen - one of those things you print out and file at the barn for reference. Go to www.endurance.net/FAQ/Showfaq.asp?Counter=36 if interested.

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 4, 2001 - 11:03 am:

Hi,

I'm sure Tufts acquired the bridle through Dr. Cook, as he is professor emeritus there. The Tufts vet school has a strong commitment to animal welfare and humane handling techniques (they are, I believe, the only vet school in the country to be teaching their students clicker training---very progressive!)

Regarding the quality of Dr. Cook's research, I would expect it to be of a very high standard judging by his impressive curriculum vitae; in addition, his list of contributions to equine veterinary knowledge is extensive. He has spent almost his entire 30+ year career in research on wind and soft palate disorders, with much of his data taken from race horses, and is almost inarguably one of the world's experts on this particular topic.

Dr. Jessica Jahiel is a big fan of this bridle (or at least a very close imitation of it)--she brought one to the Horse Gathering last summer and it was used on several horses there. I believe it's all she ever uses anymore.

~Amy

Posted on Friday, Apr 6, 2001 - 8:21 am:

Hello Amy,
I think you may have misunderstood my comments if not I will write this anyway as a clarification. I was not being critical of Dr Cook. I was noting that the statements he makes are based on taking what we currently know and then making suppositions. The one above is that a bit in the horses mouth will significantly decrease the flow of air into the lungs as he gallops. The points he makes seem logical but I have not seen any work that measures this.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 4, 2001 - 10:56 pm:

I own one of Dr. Cooks bridles and consider it one of the best investments I ever made.

The most remarkable difference I noted was the looseness of the flat walk which was almost immediate (Tennessee Walker). Being a somewhat older and careful (translate chicken)rider, my main concern was would my horse stop. Yes-he obeys the raised rein same as if he had a bit in his mouth. My husband however has now confiscated the bridle for his horse who has always had to be held back on trail rides. He absolutely loves this bridle!

Perfectly quiet hands are something I may never attain. The bridle eliminates the problem of possibly hurting the horses mouth if he spooks all of a sudden, but still keeps control.

My instructor ordered one as she normally starts her students with no bit, or just a halter until their hands are quiet enough to not damage the horse's mouth. This eliminates the problem.

Interesting discussion I also had with Dr. Cook was how many horses may have problems with a bit because of poor teeth floating. Much more common than what you may think.

Posted on Thursday, Apr 5, 2001 - 3:48 pm:

I've been using a side-pull for a few months now. It's all nylon, even the chin strap. The nose band is wide, cushioned thicker nylon, not a rope style. My arab mare accepts it very well and we do have nice control. I will admit I don't have a good whoa at times, however, especially on the trail. Sometimes have to slow/stop her with a one-rein circle stop. However, the sidepull seems to be the solution for a horse who hates, hates the bit, even to point of bolting in terror if one is held up even five feet away from her face. Her former owner used a mechanical hackamore, but I wanted something less severe (the hackamore even didn't stop/slow her sometimes on the trail when she wanted to be the herd leader). Question would be, why would the Dr. Cook bitless bridle be any different or more effective than just a simple side-pull? I may consider one mostly for the whoa. Thanks

Posted on Sunday, Jul 29, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

Thanks everyone for the info on the bits. I did buy a bitless bridle. Im going to use it and give it a chance. When I first purchased it I felt like there was no control. I have to get used to it, or should I say my horse has to get used to it. I will get back to everyone and let you guys know if this bitless bridle works. I have a very fussy horse. Let me say even with the hackmore he tries to eat it. He is 6 yrs old is it because he is young that he eats everything or is he playing with me? Help Gina
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