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  Discussion on What are everyone's thoughts on the memory..
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 18, 2002 - 12:44 pm:

of a horse? Is it short term, long-term, like a human, different than a human?

I know you only have 3 seconds to reprimand if they do something wrong...but I also think they remember abuse from years before...

Just curious.

Posted on Thursday, Jul 18, 2002 - 1:18 pm:

Funny, I was just pondering this question about horse memory over the weekend and intended to write a post about it. We took my arab mare to a community rodeo, the same arena where she competed in high school rodeo years ago. I don't compete, just took horses to ride on the adjacent trails, socialize with friends. Missy absolutely did not want to go near the arena entry gate. She was fine standing on the other side, anywhere except for that big gate. I couldn't figure it out and then concluded she had bad memories of the high school rodeo. There's a book by Dr. Miller called Ancient Secrets of the Horses Mind, and he confirms that they definitely have strong memories. I'm sure other members of HA have memory stories.

Posted on Thursday, Jul 18, 2002 - 1:27 pm:

Funny, I was just pondering this question about horse memory over the weekend and intended to write a post about it. We took my arab mare to a community rodeo, the same arena where she competed in high school rodeo years ago. I don't compete, just took horses to ride on the adjacent trails, socialize with friends. Missy absolutely did not want to go near the arena entry gate. She was fine standing on the other side, anywhere except for that big gate. I couldn't figure it out and then concluded she had bad memories of the high school rodeo. There's a book by Dr. Miller called Ancient Secrets of the Horses Mind, and he confirms that they definitely have strong memories. I'm sure other members of HA have memory stories.

Posted on Thursday, Jul 18, 2002 - 2:16 pm:

Hello Aileen
Horses definitely do have short-term and long-term memories, which is why they are so trainable.

The "3-second rule" you mention is a different issue altogether. This refers to the horse's inability to make a causal connection between two events that are separated in time.

For example: my horse messes up in the show ring and as soon as we get out the gate I smack him. He has no way to connect this punishment with what happened two minutes ago in the ring: he's more likely to associate it with standing next to the gate. This isn't a memory issue. It's a function of reasoning ability.

Kathleen

Posted on Thursday, Jul 18, 2002 - 6:22 pm:

Exactly right Kathleen. My horse touched an electrical barb wire fence with his mouth. One would think he would have associated the pain with the fence, but rather he associated it with the cattle on the other side of the fence. He defnitely remembered for at least 3 months, as it took that long to get him over his uneasiness around cattle, where he had no qualms of walking in amongst them prior to the 'electrifying experience'.

Just a side note, I was on his back when he decided to test the tension on the barbwire fence with his mouth....I stayed with him - my husband gave me an 85 score - perhaps I should take up rodeo! :)

Posted on Friday, Jul 19, 2002 - 11:02 am:

Thank you! I ask this because I have been told different things about horses memories...Now... if a horse has been abused, will the horse remember it for his entire life? If so, I'm assuming time and trust is the only way to semi-erase the memory.

If the horse was severely abused, might pretty much anything set him off? If so, I believe it would be a dangerous horse. Or would the horse just need a very knowledgeable owner that knows their horse VERY well and is fully aware of the risk involved?

My friend loves her horse very much, and I have been encouraging her to look around for another horse (after he took her by surprise at the beginning of her ride and reared with her -- we're pretty sure now - via vet - that it was because of the rope cinch she was using on her English AP saddle), but she is very hesitant and wants to give him another chance.

I understand how she feels because I would want to give my horse another chance if I were in her position, but I also want her to be safe, so I'm just looking for any input.

Thanks in advance...

Posted on Friday, Jul 19, 2002 - 2:00 pm:

Aileen,

Your friend has to do what is in her heart to do. If she is the only one who really loves this horse enough to help it work through it's phobias, then it would be irresponsible to hand the horse off to someone else who would only hand it off to someone else, who would only hand it off to someone else, etc., till it ended up at auction at the killers.

All horses come with quirks and any horse can kill us. If your friend isn't on a human timeline of "got to get this horse ready for the show this weekend" then she can spend her times with the horse just getting to know it and (as someone said in the previous postings about the rearing) "take the horse back to the basics." If it isn't a pain issue (and it may be) then time, patience, consistancy and forgiveness are going to eventually heal the emotional wounds. Does that mean the horse may eventually forget the previous abuse or frightening experience? No, not necessarily, but the horse will be more willing to trust. Will your friend always have to be aware of the possibility of the horse exploding? Yes. Is it worth the risk for her? That's what she needs to decide.

The best to all three of you.
Holly

Posted on Friday, Jul 19, 2002 - 2:15 pm:

Holly,

My friend is not on a timeline and she does realize the risk, but I don't know if she's decided if the risk is worth it.

Good point about the horse being sent to the killers...I did not think that one through.

Thank You!!

Posted on Friday, Jul 19, 2002 - 4:54 pm:

I just went on a particular trail the other day, for the first time. I know my mare must have been on it years ago. she knew every little twist and turn. When I urged her left and she wanted to go right, Right was the correct way. Left was a dead end... LOL. I have owned her for over 8 years so, she remembered that far back...

jo

Posted on Friday, Jul 19, 2002 - 11:30 pm:

Oh YES! Horses have a memory like a steel trap - believe it! :O

Suzy

Posted on Saturday, Jul 20, 2002 - 2:27 am:

Aileen--I just had to speak to Holly's thoughts about your friend's horse's future. My first horse was a badly frightened, distrustful, abused and neglected year-old Appaloosa/Standardbred filly. My neighbors brought her home from an auction, and sold her to me for the $60 they paid for her and a half a case of beer for hauling. She was extremely sensitive and had obviously had some bad experiences with humans. I couldn't get near her for days. I patiently gentled her and won her trust--and, green as I was then, went on to spoil her. By the time she was 4 she was dangerous and unrideable. I considered getting rid of her, but couldn't bear the thought of her ending up at the killer's. With the help of a professional trainer, and more patience and a lot of time on my part, she eventually became the most wonderful, trustworthy, safe, willing, and enjoyable friend, trail companion and school horse anyone could ever wish for. I learned almost everything I know about horses from her or for her sake. She was spook-proof (because she trusted me perfectly to keep her safe), loved to work, would do anything I or my daughter ever asked, gave me two exceptional half-Arab colts, and helped me teach countless children and adults how to ride and communicate with horses. I schooled her in dressage, and she was feather-light to all aids; people couldn't even see me give them. She loved to jump. In the mountains, she would go anywhere I asked--through rivers, across bridges, narrow trails, steep inclines. She would work (play) just as well bareback in a halter and leaDrOpe as fully tacked up. She died of a rare cancer when she was only 16, and I will never stop missing her. She was the horse of a lifetime, and I am so glad I gave her everything I had. That's what she gave me back.

Posted on Saturday, Jul 20, 2002 - 10:13 am:

Kim,

What a wonderful and heartwarming success. I'll be sure to relay your success to my friend. She will be VERY pleased to know that there is a chance that this guy will be the horse of her life...She did get on him bareback last night and walked and trotted him without any rearing, bucking or spooking (;) and she was elated.

Thank you so much for sharing!

Posted on Saturday, Jul 20, 2002 - 10:20 am:

Kim,

On a sidenote, what type of cancer did your wonderful horse have? My guy was diagnosed with apocrine carcinoma -- they said it was a very unusual lesion for a horse -- (it was found in what we thought was a sarcoid)in February of 2000. It hasn't come back in that form since. He is a VERY easy keeper so I'm assuming that his weight will be the first to signal to me that something is wrong.

If it's not too painful, could you share with me your experiences?

Posted on Sunday, Jul 21, 2002 - 2:21 am:

Aileen--It was some kind of soft tissue sarcoma; I don't think I ever knew the name. She--Sunny, Sundancer--was also an easy keeper. The first sign of her illness was a shortness of breath during extremely light work (packing kids around the place) that you might think was heaves, but she was never heavey. I thought it must be some kind of allergic reaction to something, but it only worsened. She was soon off her feed and working for breath, like a person with emphysema, and she looked very anxious and preoccupied all the time. There was a large and rapidly growing tumor in her thoracic cavity, crowding out her lungs and causing her pain, and maybe metastases elsewhere. I was told that her primary tumor was inoperable and her disease untreatable, and that it was not often seen in horses.

Posted on Monday, Jul 22, 2002 - 10:14 am:

Thank you Kim,

I can only imagine how I would feel if I were in your place...I feel for you.

I sincerely appreciate your information.
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