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Discussion on Needing to be in front at fast paces
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Nov 13, 2006 - 7:08 pm:
I have a problem just started with my almost perfect horse. He has started to insist on racing or being in front when we canter or gallop in a group. This is new. on our own he is perfect. I do hunter paces and he has been great until recently. He gets so hot and worked up and refuses to be behind the horse in front. If I let him pass he is ok. If not he pulls bucks etc only because I am holding him back as sometimes there is not enough room to pass plus its rude. He is usually faster than the horse in front . Its getting difficult to calm him down and I don't want all my training going down hill by having to use heavy hands. So far I have been doing the one rein stop. Making him stand when good let him go and catch up. This works great but I cant keep doing this in a timed competition. If I was able to let him pass and make him go faster pass the other horse I am sure it would stop as then he would have to work hard and the fun has gone out of it, But thats not practical and as I said rude.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, Nov 13, 2006 - 8:31 pm:
KT, I am curious as to how you get your horse to stand . . . and for how long?
When I have had this problem, I have done LOTS of circles with my horses and headed them in the opposite direction. As soon as the horse comes down to a walk, either on the circle or in the opposite direction, I release on the reins and let him follow the other horse(s) again . . . and if he give me a higher gear than what I ask, I circle, etc., until he gives me a walk . . . all the way home, if necessary. The horse will end up doing twice as much work as the other horses that head down the trail in a normal manner, but until my horse realizes that speeding up without my cue is a "no-no," then I discipline him that way. When my horse is walking or trotting on cue, THEN I ASK for canter if I feel that he is in a controllable frame of mind . . . When a horse is willing to give us something, we should cue for it JUST before he gives it, and this way, he learns that there IS a cue for it . . . and will learn to wait for the cue.
The reason I circle or zig-zag on the trail with my horses rather than try to hold them at a halt is that it is always easier to make a horse move than to make him stop.
If your horse is totally loosing focus on YOU then it may be time to go back to the round pen and review the cue for "MOVE" and work on getting the horse to pay attention to you whenever you ask. If you are dealing with a behavior that is putting you and/or other riders and horses at risk, then it might be good to take a break from the group riding and just work on keeping your horse's attention. Lots of lateral cues and "give to the bit" work may be in order as you head down the trail . . . Most important is that your horse be aware of you and be obedient to your direction.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 1:13 pm:
Katrina, our horses must have been comparing notes. (You and I ride some of the same paces I'm sure, maybe they have been chatting)
I had the same problem with my wonderful pace mare. I worked with one of the former Masters of SVH to solve the problem.
Surprisingly, what she suggested was that was using too much seat to regulate the pace and was sitting too strongly all the time. The horse began to associate that almost as a driving seat.
It's a little hard to explain, but when she got me back up in half seat and riding "lightly" and forward, things got much better. It seemed like contradictory orders, but I had been told that by another good rider, too, so I figured I'd try it.
I now try to use the strong seat more sparingly and try to release it as soon as there is a slight response--just like we try to do with the reins when the horse responds. Hope this helps, it worked great for me.
Lets try to watch for each other on the paces this spring.
Erika
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 7:40 am:
Holly I can get him to stand as long as I want if he doesn't I back him. I taught him this a long time ago. He doesn't care about the horses going ahead if he is standing, walking and most of the time trotting. They can even be out of sight. He is 100% focused on me. I did what you recommend and thats why he is so great at slow paces and will stand because if he doesn't he will work. I usually back him, sometimes circles but there is not always room on narrow trails. What happens is when I let him canter behind a group he starts of fine then whoosh he has to be in front. Its a herd instinct. I tried the zig zag thing serpentines yesterday, funny you mentioned that. I refuse to teach him to be heavy as he is so soft to the bit I give him his head so he has nothing to pull against until he is almost on top of the horse in front. A big no no. Thats when the problem starts. I love the idea of zig zag and it did work great. I think that might be my answer as it kept him focused without resorting to a full stop and he stayed soft in my hands. The big test will be a pace. I might have to zig zag the whole thing.  Erika that makes sense. When he gets to close to the horse in front I bet I do use too much seat as thinking about it I do sit back and maybe to deep in the saddle. I do that also because when he is sooooooo excited and I want to slow him he has been known to throw whopper bucks. I am going to try what you say because I know I tense up because i cant have him ramming up the but of another horse. Thanks guys I now have something to work with.
Erika I might be seeing you. I am not sure if I am doing the Borderland pace this month I was hoping to do it with one friend but another wants to join and 3 horses is pushing his buttons too much. Last time I rode with 3 he bucked like a rodeo king not stopping till I was off. It took him 2 or 3 minutes while my friends looked on horrified. Driving him forward at that point was useless. I got back on and we finished the pace this time my friends let me stay in front as they were terrified for my safety. Little bugger that he is. That was also in a bitless bridle, useless for bucking. Doesn't happen like that with a bit fortunately
Thanks again will let you know if the ideas work. Actually I am sure they will. Thanks
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 3:02 pm:
Katrina, when is Borderland? For some reason I don't have that one on my schedule.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 8:33 pm:
Erika its this Sunday the 19th. Are you going to go?
Katrina
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 8:41 pm:
Erika for your info
dear riders-----just to remind you about the hunter pace coming up this next sunday, and to let you know that we will NOT use the river crossings----the water is pretty high now, and we might get more rain this week...so, we will have to be creative!...... hope to see you all there....for info, contact me here or:
---Borderland Farm 845-986-9433; 340 S.Rt. 94 Warwick NY ---Adults-$40./Juniors-$25.---start time 9-12 ---Open, Novice, Hilltopping; six places ribboned in each division ---All jumps have go-arounds
TRAILERS: please park on the grass in front of the main house, or along those driveways thanks, marianne, for vhm
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:56 am:
Thanks Katrina. I have a mini-United Nations coming to my house from my kids' boarding schools this weekend so it looks like I'll miss this one. I appreciate the info. Will pass it on to other riders.
Erika
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 8:49 am:
No problem Erika.
Well I went to the pace and was allowed to do it without competing just as practice. I started off in a group . It lasted about 5 minutes before he started popping. He was getting ready to rear so I hopped off before he learnt that one. He is a quick learner. He just wanted to be in front. So I hand walked him a bit till he calmed then got back on and walked it with an occassional trot. He was mad as can be when horses were cantering by. I hopped off a few times. Its not worth being hurt. Any way I did the zig zag. It helped alot but he was still strung out. This is all at a walk and trot. Its the first time ever this has happenned. So now I have to back to the beginning of training.
I am thinking that because the front is so important to him that I should allow him to go in front when he wants (with the help of a rider) then, make him work while in front. Making being in front hard work. I think being in front might then not be so much fun, instead of doing the work behind which helps but has not solved the problem.
What does any one think?
Katrina
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 9:14 am:
Katrina ...
My recommendation exactly .. keeping consistent with the theory of "making the wrong response difficult, making the right response easy"
DT
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 9:28 am:
Ooops . . . didn't see Dennis's post, but want to say, "BINGO," Katrina . . . you are thinking like a horse
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 4:58 pm:
Thanks Dennis and Holly, I wish I had thought of it earlier, Now I just have to find a riding partner that is willing to help me with this. His feet not hurting any more that and being super fit and cool weather well say no more. Your recommendations that this should work have given me confidence in handling this. Thanks.
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