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Discussion on Returning rider, concerns about new horse
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New Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 1:39 pm:
Hi all,
I've been lurking for awhile on your site, I've found it really useful and everyone is so knowledgable and helpful! I love reading about everyones horses. So here's my scoop. I'm a returning rider after 20 years, I used to do dressage, eventing the like and even took an extensive instructors course. I used to be able to ride anything and everything. T'was young then, lol. Since I started again everything is just coming back, the muscles, well they are coming back, and yes! I can actually hold a 2 point position at an extended trot!
Anyway I'm looking into buying this horse, a 10 yr. old, 16 hh, white Andalusian cross, he's a gorgeous, sweet boy, ground manners are wonderful, is athletic, beautiful gaits, never kicks, bucks etc for the current owner. She has only had him for 5 months but has 4 other horses, is trying to have another baby, so she just doesn't have time for him, she's asking 5K for him, which I think is along the lines of his potential, my trainer thinks it's a lot, for pretty green 10 yr old.
No one knows his history, so it's sort of guessing what kind of training he's had. We sort of figure he's had no formal training, hes very quick, no brakes to speak of, but a quick learner. He wants to go without any aids, if you gather your reins he's already off, if you even touch him with your leg, his whole side twitches, you cannot just rest your legs against his sides. He puts his head up and fights the bit a lot, or he will put himself behind the bit and fluster about. He's not bolty or running away, he just seems to be really green under saddle.
Ok this is getting long, I'll get to the point. My trainer loved him, says he's a fun horse, safe but speedy, fast learner but will be work.
The gal who owns him has been jumping him, (I don't think he ever saw a jump in his life), cantering everything. My theory is he should go back to pre-school, learn the basics before anything else, master the halt at a walk, master a balanced trot and also be able to halt at a trot. Does this sound like a good plan for him, start form scratch?
She also has not had his teeth checked since she owned him, and the bit she is using is a dee snaffle with hooks, which my trainer said was maybe a bit severe for him and forcing him to go on the bit when he really isn't ready. This may account for the head action and fighting the bit, he obviously does not like the bit.
He's a wonderful, sweet horse, green 10 yr old. I am leasing him for 2 weeks to see how we get on together. He has great potential and I want to get him started right. So any tips on re-training him would be great.
Cheers
Adria
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 1:57 pm:
Welcome to the site.. You will learn a lot, I know I have..
First off get a pre purchase exam done on this horse, if you can get x rays of a front hoof and one hock.. If one hoof is more upright then the other I would choose that one.. Make sure his teeth are looked at .. Its safer to spend this money up front then what ever the cost of the horse is.. Its great that you are getting a two week trial, is this on site or at your place.. ? I have found if a horse is gonna change his tude it will be after the first month.. its a settling in thing..  Also get help with ground work first.. You horse sounds like he has some confidence issues thus he is ready to go all the time.. ( I have a young mare like this, that I am working on ) We want foreword, but we want it on our terms not theirs, he has to learn to wait for the Q's..
What is he crossed with, my friend has a lovely Andy/TB perfect for dressage BUT he can be very hot..
Good luck and enjoy...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 3:33 pm:
I suggest starting him as if he had never been touched, taking a close inventory of all the holes in his training, and developing your plan from there. You could try a hackamore or bosal as you work through his mouth issues, because certainly learning to go at your pace is paramount. Does he have any lunging skills or is it another place he gets too fast?
I do think you could find something else in your budget that would be more competition ready, but it's really about your personal goals and your connection with this horse in particular that could steer your final decision... best wishes, I know it's great to be back!
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New Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 4:40 pm:
I'm getting a full vetting before purchase, and have his teeth looked at immediately. I'm surprised she never had his teeth looked at in the time she'd had him. He's at a barn which is not "his" place, he was previously out at pasture, she rode him for a month then pulled his shoes and pastured him.
They seem to think he's an Andy/TB cross, although he has some definite Arab traits. Great Dressage prospect, his trot is huge, animated, but also comfortable. Like I said he has no known history, came from the mid-west, that's all. He's a bit hot, but I'm thinking a lot of his hottness is inexperience, he's definitely a submissive horse in the herd, never gets mixed up, stands back at feeding time in a pasture. Non-confrontational. Very people oriented, seems eager to please.
As for lunging, I don't he's ever done it, and his owner has never tried :-/, odd. She has hacked him, he's very brave and not spooky, crosses water, he's had a dog jump on him, didn't flinch. This is all hearsay, but I'm sure true.
I do know I could find something, more "finished", but he is a sweetie, he kind of reminds me of my first horse, a TB/QH.
He just seems to have a great attitude, which hopefully will help with his training. I think they are just asking too much of him now.
I wonder if a Dr. Cook BB might work... Hopefully also lunging to help with confidence, control and understanding what I want him to do.
It is great to be back, Yeah!
I just wish he could tell me about his life... Sigh.
Thanks for your insights
Adria
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 6:50 pm:
Adria,I think you should tell me where this beauty is and I'll go buy him!
Seriously, sounds like a nice prospect. You have "been there" so to speak in your old riding days and you don't sound the least bit intimidated by him. Your plan for restarting him slowly, sounds great.
BTW, you couldn't find one like that around here for twice the price.
Best of luck, and welcome to the best horse website around!
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 7:45 pm:
Funny I was going to say I thought the price was high, but after reading Erika's post I'm going to ship a couple east for sale. You could by a whole herd here in W. Colorado for $5K
If that's the good price in your area for a green horse and you don't mind retraining then he sounds like a decent prospect.
It's been said before but if your not familiar with training then finding a good trainer, that you and your horse are comfortable with, is well worth your money.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 8:33 pm:
I'd never spend that much for a horse, but he sounds like one I'd love to test ride for a couple of weeks! (can I help with his training, grin)
If you have him for 2 weeks you can find out a lot in that time just by doing basic ground work with him. I'd suggest lunging online and off, having him join up with you, see how he is with having his feet handled, ears, mouth. Show him different "boogies" and see how he reacts. Being green isn't a crime, but if he's green and has no desire to pay attention to you, that's different. Once he passes the 2 week trail, keep going like he's never been under saddle. Notice I said keep going, he sounds like a keeper.
Post a picture if you can, love to see him.
And, WELCOME!!! I call this my online Horse Course, "Everything Equine 101". You'll be so glad you found HA.
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New Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 9:20 pm:
Well, real estate in this town is sky high, so I guess the horses go along with it . Erika, if I don't buy him I'll let you know, you're on the East coast.
Angie, his ground manners are impeccable, loves to just stand and be groomed, great with his feet, cross ties, not spooky at all. I rode him in the arena with little birds all over, my kids popping in and out, my ex using a white hanky. Bridles and saddles well, stands at the mounting step (which I think is new to him), he seems very eager to please and pay attention and respectful, no head butting, pushing about. Quick learner. He's pretty well joined up, he follows you around like a puppy, he's a big nuzzler, easy to get from the pasture. It's just once you get on his back, he's raring to go, almost confused, as if someone just always hopped on him and went, then probably hauled back on the reins to grind him to a stop. You need to turn him to stop him. At least that's what his current owner is doing, one rein stops, I'm not so sure about that.
I've never spent that much for a horse, sometimes say to my self, "are you crazy", and think maybe I don't need such a horse, but... It's his temperament that is really selling him (along with the fact he's a serious good looker, and mover).
Oh, he's a doll. I'm going on Sat. to lunge him and do some ground work with him, I'll get some pics.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 10:51 pm:
Yes, Adria . . . welcome to The Horseman's Advisor. It's great to see a fellow Vermonter on the site. Where do you live in VT, and who is your instructor.
It sounds like you have your "head on straight" as far as evaluating the horse. I, too, think that $5,000 is a bit expensive, but maybe not for an Andalusian cross.
Going back to basic ground work and longeing for respect . . . Spook-proofing . . . working on giving to pressure from the ground with a halter and with a bit . . . All will fortify the confidence and respect and responsiveness and flexibility needed for when you are up on top.
We will look forward to the photos.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 14, 2006 - 11:19 pm:
I think it sounds like a fair price for and Andalusian cross who is sound, good conformation, and "trained" even if not finished. If you like him and he is sound, I'd go for it.
But, how firm is the price? It wouldn't hurt to bring up his lack of being finished and the money and time you'll have to put into him and see if she'll come down a little; but I personally wouldn't walk away if she stood firm.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 1:32 am:
You all should look at the price of horses here on the Pacific coast.. $5,000. is nothing..
My friend that has the Andy/TB cross got him for $15,000 barely trained..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 4:29 am:
That price converted to English money is around £2500 which over here would be more than a fair price for a horse like that (although we do tend to pay more than a lot of other countries for things!). Purebreds Andys in the UK fetch a lot of money, even weanlings can go for £3-4,000 which is $6000 upwards to you!
I think the horse sounds a very nice character if all that is said about him is true, and if it was me I'd be taking him right back to basics with inhand work to establish the voice commands, then with ridden the first thing I'd do is to work on him standing still while mounted. He may have been ridden with too strong a hand and maybe try a simple bit and allow him to seek the contact.
You are very lucky that you have got the opportunity to try him out for two weeks which to me indicates that the sellers aren't trying to pull a fast one. Hopefully things will work out, let us know how you go!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 7:54 am:
Very interesting reading all your takes on the price--Alden, there is a guy out here that brings in basic trail-trained horses from out West and advertises "Load of Horses from the West", believe it or not, and people flock to him. Not a one sells for under $5000 for green ones.
Andalusian crosses here are $10,000-$15,000 for green and up to $35,000 for trained. The purebreds are often twice that!
So all you Westerners, start haulin' your hosses east!
I know if I have to shop, I'm coming out by you!
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 8:08 am:
I am thinking that the price seems high too. I am in MA and have been in the market for a horse. 5,000 is on the high end of my price range, and I think that the time of year has let a horse who started in that range DrOp somewhat. I don't know much about that breed though. I stick to the good ole' qh, paint types. If I were you, I would do EVERYTHING you can in the two weeks you have him. Make sure he is PERFECT for what you want to do. DOn't assume anything. Ultimately, I think there is a saying in the horse world-"a horse is worth what someone will pay for him". Keep us updated!!!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 8:09 am:
Ditto to what Erika said - I've been looking at Andalusions/Lusitanos for sale as I think I might want one for my next horse. I've seen them at minimum of $35,000 for a horse that has been well trained in dressage. I was thinking that if Adria is willing to put some work into this horse, she may very well have found herself the deal of the century.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 8:37 am:
Adria, take a look at this page, lots of cross-bred Andys to get a cost comparison.
https://www.dreamhorse.com/show_list.php3
What's a horse worth? I never can figure it out. There is something intangeable about certain horses that gives them something extra. I guess if it is worth it to you, its worth it, huh?
I just know that around here you can't get anything worth riding for under five--and that's usually a weanling.
I sold a coming three-year-old filly of mixed breeding, very green, to the first person who came by for $4000 recently; then fended off calls for weeks from people who knew her who said they would have paid twice as much--go figure.
There are a few things that I notice around here--anything 16 hands or more, any of the trendy breeds, or anything called warmblood will double the base price.
Local stuff I guess.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 11:19 am:
Erika - a horse is worth what ever someone is willing to pay for it!
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 11:50 am:
I used to say any horse over $1000.00 better have 4 solid gold feet. Now, I'd probably change that to $2000.00, with inflation and all. I can see paying more for a mare or a stallion if you are going to go into breeding. But that much for a gelding just to get ribbons? Or to have a pleasure horse?
Not saying that's bad, or trying to insult anyone. Just not right for me.
Of course I don't think trucks should cost the same as what you could buy a house for many years ago.
Still, I'd love to ride a $5000.00 or more, horse, especially an Andulasian. So any HA member that buys one, I hope I can bum a test ride some day!!
Another thought, do all the really expensive horses end up in the ring doing something? Isn't that what brings their value up?
Anyways, good luck with this guy! If he's worth that to you, go for it!
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New Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 11:56 am:
Thanks for all your support and replies, such a wealth of knowledge on HA, wow!
Yup, 5k would be the most I ever paid for a horse, I almost bought a champion TB stallion from New Zealand that had in transit on the airplane become sterile, for 5K in 1980. He was a doll, ex racehorse to be used for stud, but that didn't work out for him, so he came to barn I was at in WV. But I didn't.
My thought are yes, I'm paying for the Andalusian, and it's probably too much for his training level. But if he is all he seems to be, he could be well worth it, and the deal of the century.
I was watching Clinton Anderson the other night talking about buying a horse for your child, the jist was you get what you pay for, if the horse is the right horse for you then you paid the right price. If you spend 5 on a horse then sell it 3 years later for 3, you spent 2 and had a great time.
I have looked on the web to compare prices and Erika is right, they go from 4,500 for a weanling up to 35,000.
He is not registered that I know of, but I'm going to check if he's been microchipped, you never know.
Ann, I'm in southern VT, near Bennington, but most of my life is spent over the border in Berkshire County MA. Since I'm about a mile and a half from the border. By the way I LOVE your spotted warmbloods!
Gwen, where in MA are you? I'm from Berkshire County, and that's where Casper (the horse in question) is. He was sold to the current owner by Heritage Farm in Easthampton.
I know the gal who's selling him is on the up and up, she's the personal fitness trainer to a friend who also happens to own the barn I ride at, so. She also wants him to go to a good home, she wanted to see me ride him, to make sure I was right for him, she's a very caring horse person.
Also another question. He's getting 2 and 1/2 scoops of oats, sweet feed a day, and he's not being worked regularly, or hasn't been in months, she also gives him handfuls of feed as treats. I guess I'm not sure if that's good feeding for a boy who is already a bit of a "hottie". Bear with my ignorance on this... It's been awhile
On another note: Do any of you dressage folks know of Mary Rose? British woman, FBHS.
Cheers
Adria
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 12:12 pm:
I think horse prices are like Real Estate prices, what the market will bear, somehow all these prices get set by the market, if the prices for Warmbloods climb, same for Andys or anything else. I was considering a Norwegian Fjord, the prices for them are also up there, then that's the market, everyone will want top $$$ for them, it's a market thing. In Berkshire County the real estate prices are absurd, $500,000 for a nice ranch (house)? But the market has borne it. Crazy! Like Angie said, trucks now cost what houses used to. Horses cost what cars used to. Something else Clinton said, never buy a horse with re-sale in mind, buy the horse you want and enjoy it, if it's the right horse you got your moneys worth.
A
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 12:44 pm:
Adria,
I am from southeastern MA, but went to school at UMASS-Amherst! Heritage Farm has a pretty good reputation from what I have heard... What are you going to do again-was it dressage only?? I think if you are a good match, and you feel that "chemistry" with him, go for it. I have looked at so many horses that were good boys, but didn't make me want to bring him home to my family...
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Member:
Albionsh
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 5:00 pm:
Adria, Erika, Fran and Gwen--this fellow HA member has a number of very nice warmblood prospects here on the ranch in Shady Cove, Oregon. Ages range from five years to weanling, Oldenberg, Hungarian Warmblood, Westfalian, and RPSI. Some are listed on my profile, and others are listed on dreamhorse.com. I will try to put together the information on our classified section--just so busy with all my horses and the boarder's horses too.... Maybe I could even arrange to bring them--and meet you in person!! Of course this winter weather is not the best for traveling, as I'm sure everyone can understand since all the high profile "lost in the Oregon snow" stories in the news.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 7:46 pm:
Angie, you must be in a really depressed horse market. I thought the market here was pretty crummy, but I don't think you can buy a decent horse, unregistered, rideable, for less than $2000 unless it is really old, really young with no training, or has something wrong with it.
You can go to the auctions and pick horses up cheap, but a lot of times they are "project" horses. I'd be afraid to buy a horse for less than $2000.
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 9:59 pm:
You can get a good deal, if you are in the right place at the right time and know the right people. The woman who owns my barn got a really nice Appy who was with the Mt. Holyoke Equestrian team, he had an injury, took a couple of years to fully recover but could never be used for competition, she paid $1,500 for him, he's a great horse, so gentle, great for little kids, but still a lot of fun for experienced riders, he's knows his stuff and is great to ride.
Nancy, I wish I could be in the market for a nice Warmblood! maybe in a few years...
You guys are getting all the winter, here on the East coast we are having the strangest winter. It's been like spring most of Nov and Dec. it's been in the 50's for the past week.
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Member:
Juliem
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Posted on Friday, Dec 15, 2006 - 10:05 pm:
Wow, prices sure vary according to area! I think 5K sounds reasonable and I'm in Idaho where the horse market is really depressed right now! Check out my yearling APHA filly for sale on the classifieds page on this site! Classifieds and Ads, Commercial Advertising and Links. Julie
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 - 9:11 am:
Oh Adria, I hope you didn't just jinx us with the weather! I am loving it!!!!
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 - 9:42 am:
Sara,
Going over the local ads, I do see horses for $2500 to $3500 and they are all show quality horses. I very, very seldom see any over $3500.00. The only time I've paid close to $2000.00 was when we bought a mare in foal. And Cody, who was in the pictures with the puncture wound, was close to that price. $1500.00 seems average around here for "just" horses. I am sure there are breeders with specific breeds who ask more, but I am not aware of them. We've had horses advertised the last few months for $400-$500. Happens everytime the hay crop is poor like last summers was.
Guess I should up the price on the horse I have for sale, apparently it's so low people think something is wrong with him! (Of course first I have to decide how bad I really want to part with him)
Adria,
I'd never spend that much for a horse with an injury. My theory is that it costs as much to feed a sound horse as it does a pasture pet, so why not have a good rideable horse?
Our weather in Upper MI is also strange. Like we are having a rainy season instead of snow like normal for December. 9 Days til Christmas and it is muddy everywhere, not white everywhere! Like the mild temps, but it will be bad with the ice when the temps DrOp.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 - 7:34 pm:
Nancy, I'd love to see your horses but I'm not currently in the market (sorry if I gave that impression). One horse is all I have time for (bummer! would love to have more). Nor am I experienced enough to buy/train a very young horse...someday maybe, but I'm realistic enough to know my own limitations.
As to the weather - I'm so SICK of the mud!! As much as I dread the very cold, I'd welcome some snow any time now.
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Monday, Dec 18, 2006 - 9:46 am:
Just an update, Yesterday I went to lunge Casper. He was really good, it took him about 3 minutes to figure it out, either he has done it before or is really quick learner (which he is). Nice circles, no pulling, at first he wasn't sure of the verbal whoas, walk, trot, but he caught on really quick. A few transitions and he was doing nice transitions from trot to walk, then halt. At first he'd try to change hand (one direction was much easier for him and it seemed he kept trying to change to that hand). Each time he stopped he looked at us, ears pricked as if to say "hey, did I do good, is that what you wanted me to do?", very attentive and willing boy. We even cantered him and he kept on a nice circle without falling in or out.
You could see over the course of the session that he was beginning to get more balanced.
The bit he was using in a Myler Dee with hooks, very thin, so my trainer brought one her bits, a rubber egg butt and he seemed to fight it much less, however we weren't riding him so that may be a different story. I'm going to try riding him with the rubber snaffle to see if he is more comfortable in it. He may have never been ridden in a bit.
Saturday, I didn't lunge him just went to work with him, grooming, walking around seeing how we got on together, his manners are wonderful, you can stand around chatting and he just stands there, no agenda. If you are standing with him on grass, he doesn't pull you around to eat he just waits patiently. I brought my 6 yr old son with me and Casper really liked him, was cute, he sort of followed him, sniffing and nuzzling, really was intrigued by Phoenix's stuffed penguin with the bright orange top-knot. Phoenix was all gung ho to clean Caspers feet, next time Phoenie, I'll turn that kid into a rider yet.
Very sweet horse...He has such a positive attitude and learns so quickly
Cheers
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Monday, Dec 18, 2006 - 11:49 am:
Hi Adria, I don't know about anyone else, but I think that Casper has already stolen your heart. Congratulations on the new member of your family!
Suz
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 6:37 am:
He's passing all tests...
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 - 6:44 am:
Sounds SO fun, and a really encouraging attitude demonstrated during lunging! I always find it so informative to watch a horse's personal learning process when presented with something out of their routine. Pictures please! Stacy
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Member:
Dawson
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 - 5:21 pm:
Hi Andria, maybe I missed it but did the current owner give you any information about where she purchased him from, and can you give that place a call.
Here is my only concern; I agree you have a four to six week honeymoon period with a new horse then he shows his true colors after he's felt you out.
I purchased a perfect gentleman 16.3H, Western Pleasure Qtr Horse... built like Arnold Schwartznager.Whatever I asked he did and gave me more, no bucks, no rears, not a step out of line, total perfection. Willing to go, stop on a dime, spins, shoulder in the list goes on...
I rode him every other day, on the fifth weekend, I rode him to the beach(he loved it)on a trail(loved it) over to my parents, then... headed home. I relaxed, what a horse, we've bonded. WRONG!! From a quiet walk he threw his head down between his front legs and began a bucking marathon. As I laid across his back and watched his hooves come up over my head for the 15th time I thought this is not good. After I came too, the people watching told me I got off just fine and was standing beside the horse until he spun around and kicked me twice in the back of my head then trampled me.
What did I do wrong? I began calling the owners on the back of his registration papers, the first person I reached said, "Damn that horse still alive where's he end up? My quiet western pleasure had been thrown out of three rodeo circuits too dangerous. He didn't buck out of the shoot, instead he waited for the rider to relax and attempt to get off before he went for blood.
Over the years I have been pretty accurate about picking my horses, but this one gave me no hints of what he was about. And when I called the previous owner, that assured me he was wonderful he disclosed that he actually had for 4-5 months, climbed on him twice then sold him to me. We don't bounce as well as we used to, I'd get more information on your horse or ask if you can lease for two months with option to buy. A registered 10 yr old green horse with perfect confirmation would sell for 2500 - 3500 around here. Good luck and be safe
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 - 7:01 pm:
Dawson, sure glad you're still with us after a ride like that!!
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Member:
Kstud
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 - 7:37 pm:
HMMM, Not sure about checking out with the last owner as my tale will show. Bought a lovely 5yo horse at the sales on Nov.1ST and paid big money. Rider at sales had had him for 3 weeks preparation and said he was the sweetest horse and most willing he had ever had (trust this guy 100%). Brought horse home, fantastic, nothing too much trouble for him. Hacked him, hunted him, cross-countried him, jumped him and had dressage lessons. An absolute angel. Went to register as new owner and phoned breeder as name was on passport to query niggly point on said papers. BIG MISTAKE. Breeder astonished that a woman had bought him, took 5 men to break him and said he was the most difficult horse he had ever had (breeder is also huntsman so well versed in horses), thought this horse would never be ridden. Since I learned this all my confidence in the horse has gone and instead of loving riding him I now dread it as I am waiting for the explosion. The poor horse has never put a hoof wrong and has been ridden as well by my husband and my dressage instructor who puts him under severe pressure and he never even twitches. Yet now I know his past I ride him like there is something wrong and he is picking up on it, if I do not get over this I will end up making him a bad one. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and a horse appreciates a clean slate.
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 - 9:09 pm:
I am going to say this because I want to say it and then I will sleep at night. I wasn't sure if I should say it, but now that someone brought it up I will say it. Ironically, I just heard a story about the farm who sold the last girl this horse; that made me question their integrity. I won't even get into the details, but wanted to put that out there. OF COURSE, there are places who buy and sell who are very reputable and from what I have heard, this place has sold some nice horses too. I just wanted to mention that. There. It is out there. I hope it doesn't seem like I am bad-mouthing anyone, or questioning your horse Adria. Please feel free to email me if you would like more information and please don't feel like I am telling you that this place and horse are horrible. I just know that the culture today is "buyer beware", so I am making you...aware. BEST OF LUCK!!
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 12:17 am:
Dawson, wow! Scary stuff. Glad you are ok.
I've been spending the past few days with Casper, I have learned a lot! Things I think his current owner has not even taken into consideration, or noticed, or if she did notice she didn't pay attention to the messages he was sending. I had a lesson on him, he did fine his normal stuff, head tossing, rushing...he did start to even out a bit, into a more balanced, but very stiff trot. he's very stiff and tense.
Then I had a gal who's a trainer at my barn come a see him, we lunged him, I rode him, he was pretty good, he took off a bit when I went to mount him...he doesn't like that. She rode him he pretty much was the same for head tossing, fighting.
What I have been noticing while working with him is he gets really upset about things on his back, he is not skittish about anything else, bombproof. When you go to saddle him he backs up, throws his head up, is really scared, he does calm down and when the saddle is on he's ok, he's ok with the girth as well. This also applies to his blanket. When we were getting him ready to go back ou to turn out, we did not have him in cross ties, just lead rope and halter, he freaked with the blanket, threw up his head, backed away, I was afraid he would rear, once on he was fine.
I think he has barely been ridden, just saddle broke, he has some back issues which account for the head tossing, the running, he has some discomfort which cause all his behaviors.
He is a sweetheart in hand, he's a cuddly lover boy, not one vice but as soon as something happens which involves his back he gets upset. I think no one has noticed this and they just continue to ride him as if he's a green horse who needs work. he's green but he's got other issues as well.
The upshot, my trainer friend basically put it on the line, he's probably a bigger project than I want to get into, at ten, he's got issues that I don't even know about, I could spend a lot of money on him, if I find I can't train him, I would have to hire a trainer, if he's got back issues...
I'm really a bit emotional about this, he's a sweet, sweet horse, not a mean bone in his body, if his back hurts, if he's scared of being ridden, many a horse would have snapped, but he does the best he can. I too get the feeling he may be a ticking bomb. My rescue alerts go up, but not for $5,000. I've become quite attached to him. I don't want anything bad to happen to him, go from owner to owner.
I've been looking into other horses, because no, I should not fall in love at first sight. I need to relax and take my time. Casper is still on my list, but I may offer her much less money, and realize that I have my work cut out for me.
Catherine: Maybe he NEEDED a woman, not the 5 men it took to break him, might does not make right.
Gwen: I appreciate that, you are not out of line. I think that this and other sales barns, they themselves don't know what they are getting, they see a horse, it's flashy, they think sales. Probably a lot of these horses come with no history, they go and buy them in bulk (so to speak). I did learn something about this horse today from a woman who has a mare I was interested in, his original name, American Idol. She saw him on the website too.
Sorry I'm so long winded
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 7:18 am:
Wow, what a bummer for you. I really respect your clear head. I would have probably been too far gone by now (which would be a big mistake). Keep your chin up, this is still a fun time to be able to choose your next buddy!
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Member:
Ella
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 7:53 am:
If you are looking for a reasonably priced horse to work with that has the potential to be amazing check out the Canadian farms that have TB/Draft crosses. The prices up there are better than here and the crosses have the talent of the TB with the minds of the Draft horses. They have bone without too much bulk.
Check out Cancade Farms web site.
Ella
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 8:04 am:
Adria,
Oh, I am sorry to hear he's not what you expected. If I were in your place, I'd probably try to get the price lowered and rescue him, but then I am a sucker for any horse that is scared and needing help. He sounds like a brave boy who's just been misunderstood and who needs time.
It's good that you know your limits as far as what you are willing to do with him. Keep us posted, I love him already and hope he ends up with a good owner!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 11:11 am:
If you really like this horse, I have a couple of suggestions/comments to make before you make a final decision.
First: does your trainer also find horses for clients or buy and sell horses? I ask because many a trainer (none at HA, I'm sure Will find fault and do all they can to discourage one of their clients from buying a horse the client likes. The trainer will then either sell the client one of his/her horses or find a "suitable" horse. The reason a trainer does this is so he/she can make a commission.
Another consideration, have you had a vet check out Casper? If so, and he found nothing wrong with his back physically, then be sure the saddle you are using fits properly. What type of bit is he used to? Does your bit fit him properly? Just be sure all the tack you use on him fits right. Many a horse has been labeled "bad" due to poor fitting equipment.
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Member:
Ella
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 11:23 am:
This is Deuce with a friend riding him. I found him in Kentucky but he came originally from Cancade Farm.
Isn't he wonderful! (I could be a bit prejudiced)
Ella
p.s. I tried to post this (or something close) a bit ago and it did not go. If it somehow shows up twice I am sorry.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 11:34 am:
Adria, I have a TB that I got with a sore back that has since been brought back to a much healthier state. I don't want to sound like I've had some conversionary experience that I want to shout from the rooftops, because it may not be even remotely the same type of problem your horse is facing. BUT, I was going to give up on him too. He was very hollow under saddle, not under himself at all, very tail-swishy, and probably on the verge of explosive behavior because of his discomfort. I almost sold him as a companion horse. I took him to a vet highly qualified in chiropractic and acupuncture first.
He was fixable, and is so much happier. After two adjustments and two acupuncture treatments (and only $500 which I consider a bargain), he's ready to begin his riding education again. (He's 3 and recently off the track where he handled his pain very stoically, but was definitely not going to race.)
I thought it amazing when the vet told me at our last appointment that the body of knowledge relating to back pain in horses was very recent. That for years it was largely ignored/unknown. Recent advances have been great, though. things are looking up for horses who suffer back pain.
I'm not a walking billboard for chiro, but it worked for Jules. He went from a grade 4/5 lameness on the right and 3/5 on the right (sacra ilial) to being about a 1/5 on both sides. We're going to be taking it slowly, but even in pasture I see a difference in the way he carries himself. The prognosis is excellent, and we'll keep him tuned up with the adjustments as needed.
Good luck to you. It was worth the research and effort for Jules and me, but I already owned him and I felt a responsibility to take it a step further. Best of luck on your search and with your final decision. And merry Christmas!
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 11:36 am:
Meant to say 4/5 lameness on the right and 3/5 on the LEFT. Oops!
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 12:14 pm:
He may have just been rushed with saddling and actual mounted work. Sometimes we think that a horse that is going so easy on the ground work doesn't need to be brought along slowly under saddle. Maybe some one just saddled him up, scared him, and he's just afraid. And maybe he got hurt and remembers that.
I'd consider Sara's advice too before you write him off.
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Member:
Ella
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 12:28 pm:
Come on guys. It would be one thing if they were just looking for a good home for Casper. At that point you can work through a lot of things. But at $5000.00 you can find a horse ready to go without the problems. If they realize this horse has issues they might DrOp the price dramatically but don't pay good money for a horse with troubles.
That is why I showed a picture of the horse above. I payed about the same price as Casper is going for and he is 5 and ready to go. He is lovely. There are others like it out there. Don't assume that Casper is the only one she is going to fall in love with.
I don't mean to be a bag but I don't want Adria to feel she has to take this project horse on because she is attached. She has not been riding for many years. She has enough money to spend on a nice horse, she deserves to have one.
Ella
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Member:
Kstud
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 1:09 pm:
I am going to be a misery too, I have a very very talented mare that sounded just like Caspar when ridden. Always stiff and uncomfortable. I am a vet and I spent a fortune trying to "fix" her, and I mean a fortune, as she was so talented. I was told by my colleagues that it was in her head, or that it was my riding. I had custom made saddles for her, acupuncture, physio, chiro, herbs, drugs, nuclear scintigraphy, scans etc etc. Eventually I had her spine x-rayed despite the difficulty and expense and even though I was told I was wasting my time and guess what! She had a long standing fracture of a dorsal process that was being pulled by the nuchal ligament and causing the displaced piece to erode the next vertebra, hence the pain. Incurable, end of ridden career, and I would say more common than realised. Lots of horses fall or rear and come over, or another horse jumps on them and this damage may never be picked up as it seems like greenness or temper or bad saddle fit, or muscular tension, the list goes on. IMO it will cost you another 5,000 just to be sure this is not a physical issue and that is before you start the retraining! My mare was also really sweet and though in pain she never reared or bucked BUT she never progressed either. I was lucky that I could at least breed from her and she has a home for life, rather more difficult with a gelding!. Best of luck Adria, the right horse is out there for you.
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 7:27 pm:
Oh, ladies...
This is why I'm torn. #1, $5,000 is the high end for me, I know that if I buy Casper I'm going to spend a lot more before we are done. I had scheduled a thorough pre-purchase exam by a reknowned vet, who is known as Dr. Doom and Gloom since he can find everything wrong with a horse, he's a very good vet, but one sellers don't like to see in their barn. Someone said wait, don't spend the $500 (or more) unless you really want this horse... Look at some more, you need to compare, there are lots of horses out there.
I suspect it could be one or all of the above, back issues, rushing under saddle work and he got scared, maybe he was beaten on the back.
#2, my trainer does not have an agenda, she does not have any horses to sell, nor do I think she would make a commission on the selling of one to me. I will however pay her for her time helping me to find the right horse. Not a lot of money but she needs to be compensated for her time.
Catherine, your mare does sound like Casper, he's so good natured, he's putting up with the pain or discomfort and fear, it could be fear. When ridden he feels as if he just could buck you off.
I'm going to look at a lot of horses, Casper will always be there, so far I'm the only one on his dance card, if I find that after I look at lots of horses and Casper is still really on top of the list, then I will make an offer that is affordable for me taking into consideration what I may have to spend on his rehab.
I looked at a really nice mare today,
https://www.equine.com/horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=313486
Nice gal, I just went to visit and meet.
Ella, there is a barn near me that gets Canadians in all the time, they are a bit pricey though. 5,500 is the lowest. they just got a new bunch in, soo I will be checking them out as well.
Here's a pic of Casper, it's not good, does not show his adorable mug, and yes, I know his stirrup is down!
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 8:51 pm:
Pictures are a really hard way to judge a horse. If it were me I think I like the bay mare better. Sorry! Its not my place to say. But its only a picture not real life so I could be wrong.
Good luck with your search.
Katrina
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 10:02 am:
ooh that mare looks nice too.
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Member:
Shanson
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 11:45 am:
Adria, you've been so smart about your evaluation of this horse. I'm impressed. Keep looking and you'll find a suitable horse. I'm sure the market is quite different in Vermont, but here in Texas, a green, 10-year-old, grade horse doesn't command $5,000, even if he has a nice temperament on the ground and no hidden "issues." Is this the going price for a nice prospect in your area for your intended purpose?
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Member:
Mcbizz
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 2:01 pm:
Adria, I haven't seen it mentioned that Casper has any registration records...maybe I missed it, but I don't think I would spend $5000 on an unregistered horse. He is a beauty, for sure. I would be very curious as to what he is crossed with.
The bay mare looks lovely and maybe more at the
level you need just returning to riding.
Good luck in your search!
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Member:
Ella
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 4:29 pm:
I love the look of the mare! I hope you look at her!
Ella
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 7:55 pm:
Adria, when I read your first post I didn't think the price was too bad considering the horse is an Andy; but it does seem the more you lok at him the more there is to work on.
Of course, that is why you are so wise to take two weeks to decide on him.
I know what it is like to look for your next horse.
I looked for nearly two years, riding project
horses in the meantime. I listened on the phone to what I thought would be a great prospect, drive out, only to be disappointed. Some were hopeful enough Idid ride, a couple got close enough to vet check; finally, I did find a wonderful girl I expect to keep for the rest of her life.
Even though it took a long time now I am glad I was careful and picky.
May I suggest you make a checklist of what you are looking for.
Perhaps a less complicated horse would allow you to take her along faster and this would also allow you to progress faster yourself.
I wonder why a talented Andalusian gelding is not further along?
Lori
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 9:39 pm:
As far as I know he's not registered, or maybe he is but his papers got lost somewhere along his life.
I'm a little bummed about him... He's so sweet, just puppylike. But everyone in my camp just keeps telling me he's not the horse for me. He could have potential, when not tensed up he has a wonderful trot, a floating canter. Maybe everyone is wrong, maybe I should just offer her $3000. and be done with it. But it may be a long haul.
But then I do realize, yes a more uncomplicated horse that i could move forward with, like you said Lori. the TB mare is nice I have also found a Trakehner mare, who was used as a brood mare and is now, getting back under saddle, very green but well behaved, she is $5000. AND she is registered with champion bloodlines. If she is willing and sweet we could work well together.
Happy Holidays all
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 11:07 pm:
Adria, I love that you are doing your homework... You will find the perfect horse, or the perfect horse will find you...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 5:35 am:
Adria the thing which worries me most is indeed his past is not known. If you can buy a nice horse of whom you know why he or she is not well ridden at a certain age or a younger one which explains why he is green I would always prefer it. Chances are big a nice horse with good ground manners but 'green' when mounted has had problems. I will always say don't go looking for problems horses are always capable finding them themselves.It isn't only the money but the more you get attached to him the sadder you will be if he has some trouble you cannot fix.
Sorry to be so negative but I agree with Ella look for a horse without problems and immediately enjoy yourself.
Jos
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 9:23 am:
This whole horse shopping thing also makes me realize stuff about myself and get through them. I'm a heart first consumer, a bit stubborn and need to work things through myself to find out whether or not something is right for me. I almost bought this great house once, a fixer upper, but oh it needed work, but when done would have been fabulous (see a pattern here, lol). However something happened and then I decided not to, even after I had gone to contract and put my other house the market. Which incidentally then I would not have bought the house I have now, which was also the first house I looked at, but a great house and property.
So, by seeking a lot of advice regarding Casper I was able to really look at him objectively. If left up to my own devices I may have bought him already.
I really appreciate all of your diverse opinions it's really helpful!
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Dec 25, 2006 - 1:06 pm:
I think many of us women have that nurturing side to ourselves. We like to see what we can make of something, especially when it's in need of some TLC. Some people really enjoy working through issues and the re-training process itself. Are you like that, Adria? I see that a bit in myself, especially when you told your story about the house. I like "fixer-uppers" too. I suppose you need to be realistic about your own experience/ time/ money to know if that is what you are looking for in a horse. I'm quite sure if you took on the challenge, and found a way to bring this horse to the best he can be, that it would be an incredibly rewarding experience. It has many risks though, so think it through carefully.
A very interesting discussion and I'm sure we are all learning from this!
Linda
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Member:
Mcbizz
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 7:55 pm:
Adria, after reading about Gasper the whale today, I thought about Casper, the horse you were thinking about buying. Have you made a decision?
Still looking, or is he your's now?
Let us know!
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 3, 2007 - 4:24 pm:
I have decided not to take Casper, he's a sweetie for sure but I think at the stage that I am in in my returning riding career he's too much for me to bite off. In that price range however I have found quite a few nice horses that I am looking at. His owner I think is going to keep him at the barn and start working regularly with him, if she gets him to a good level, then maybe she can get her price. heck maybe if I haven't found a horse by then, I will revisit him!
So I will keep you posted about my prospects...
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Member:
Mcbizz
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 3, 2007 - 5:04 pm:
Thank you, Adria, for the update. I'm sure with some more training, Casper will find a good buyer, if not you. I bought my Arab gelding very green, with many problems, and have sometimes questioned my sanity for doing so. Now, ten years later, I realize how much I've learned from it. And how much time and money have been involved. Would I do it again, though? Probably so!
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 12:33 pm:
Sounds like the right decision, Adria!
Catherine, what's happening with your 5-year old, mentioned in your Dec 21 post? Your story has stayed in my mind as I can totally imagine how you must feel (being told the horse you know as an angel is really a devil).
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 1:14 pm:
Ok, I'm back! Since I like getting all your valuable opinions here at HA I'm sending a link to a horse that my "scouter" saw and really liked, the only thing she didn't like was the fact that he is a little bit short strided for her tastes and possibly mine. He's a 7 y.o. 16.1 hand TB, he jumps really well. His neck seems also to be a bit thin, but he is aTB.
Here's a link to a whole lot of photos of him, including a video of him trotting and jumping.
https://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/jlk39/Pony%20and%20Dozer/?action=view&curr ent=adrienne003.jpg
Can a short stride be lengthened, the back become more supple? Will his neck fill out with training and muscle development?
I know you all love looking at horses, so I'd like some of your opinions. Aside from these things she says he's wonderful, experienced, laid-back gentleman.
thanks
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Member:
Mcbizz
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 1:31 pm:
Wow! Great looking horse! Your scout must be a good one. His neck looks fine to me and what a nice face!
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 2:42 pm:
What a sweet looking horse.
I can't help but wonder, however, if he ever had a bad fall? There is something not quite right in his back - look at the bump and hollow from the back of the saddle to his croup. That shouldn't be there - and you can see it in both directions.
Something I would check into.
Good luck!
Cheryl
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 2:47 pm:
Nice looking horse! (Tell that kid to sit up straight)
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 8:14 am:
What ever happened to that cute mare?
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 8:31 am:
Adria, have you looked on equinesite.com? It is all New England and New York, with a ton of horses. I find myself being very jealous with what I see on there.
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 10:54 am:
Gwen, I found your post of April of this year about a TB that you were interested in buying and your question was about the same as mine. I guess he's a very typey TB, maybe in the delicate side.
The cute mare is still on the radar, having trouble getting over to see her, since I have to coordinate with my scouters/devil's advocates, or I end up falling for a horse which may not be the right one for me, lol. She is built much differently than Bulldozer, much of a stockier TB.
I'm going to see him on Sunday, Anna says he's a really nice gentleman, soft to the aids, smooth trot. She also says his stride is a little short, but he moves freely.
I went to Equibase to see if I could find info on his racing career, pretty interesting... He cost A LOT of money, $105,000 at his last auction in 2001, and his total career winnings were only $8,500, man, what a business. Stopped racing in 2003 placed first once, and third once.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 11:03 am:
Ditto Cheryl above...my TB had this exact same conformation through the lumbar area along with the short-stridedness. In my horse's case, the lack of muscles in his butt (because he always compromised his impulsion from the rear from pain) made that area of his spine much more visible at the croup. He has since regained some muscle and it is not nearly as prominent. And yes, the vet thinks his issues were caused by a traumatic injury, possibly a bad fall, in the past. Just be sure to have it checked out very carefully if you move forward with this one. Very sweet face, indeed! But I agree on the neck...I like them a bit more filled out. Good luck!!
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 11:19 am:
Terri, is that your horse in your profile, I do see it if it is. Also seeing what Cheryl is talking about. Also a more prominent, less rounded croup, but looking at a lot of TB's they seem to have that.
I'll have him thoroughly vetted by my vet, whose nickname is Dr. Doom and Gloom, I'm sure he'll be able to find and clarify anything like that.
On his racing stats it does not mention any falls, but it could have happened during workouts.
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 3:46 pm:
Yes, Adria my tb ended up filling out with a better diet and some conditioning. Although I ended up selling him, I would always recommend a good natured tb. Of course there are some that are a bit kooky, but I have found that if you find a quieter one they are very rewarding to work with. They seem so reasonable, smart and responsive.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 9:30 am:
Yes that's him. my first impression of him was "Yuk! What a roach-backed horse!" Since treating his pain issues, his movement has become so much more fluid and his stride has improved considerably. Consequently, his topline has changed as well; the dip that you see in the picture is now barely noticeable. As soon as my place dries up (if ever...seems we have been afloat since October), we'll begin a new training regimen, and I hope to see continued improvement. He is one of the "good-natured TBs" that Gwen refers to above!
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 11:36 am:
Dozer is definitely one of the "good natured TBs", almost to the point of his laid back temperament bordering on laziness. But he is very sweet, very trusting and willing. I went to meet him on Sunday, he's willing, responsive to the aids, but always has the feeling of not being forward but he is! His stride is short, when he walks he does track up but his step is not large, a bit choppy. My trainer says "well, that's just the way he is", I'm not so sure, he does have the conformation of Terri's horse, kind of roach backed, prominent withers which are a bit concave when meeting his shoulders, again my trainer says "he's 7 he's done growing" but from reading a lot on HA and other sites, it could be a matter of muscle development. He was off the track in '04, when she bought him he hadn't been ridden in over a year and before that as a light trail horse, so possibly he's just getting his muscle tone slowly back. The gal who is selling him has had him since March and I believe has done really well with him.
Although his stride is short, he is fairly light on his feet, and moves freely.
All my gut instincts tell me he is the right horse, patient, willing responds to the aids, and super calm, even my kids could ride him. Super sweet.
Just a bit concerned about his movement. He does not seem in pain, but could it be his back is out of alignment? Stiff? He doesn't seem stiff per se, but just not really loose. He jumps fine, 3'3, has done hunter paces etc.
That's not me riding him.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 12:32 pm:
If you are planning to have him vetted and Dr. D&G is as astute as you say, he should be able to identify whether or not there is asymmetry in stride or in the horse's physical appearance. Mine immediately noted the longer stride as well as the less-developed muscles on the right side. My horse would not allow a flexion test on the right hind either. My eyes are simply not trained to that level, but I could see it when pointed out. Good luck as he seems to be a plucky, nice guy! For my horse's full story, see the post "Question on Back Conformation" from June 2006.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 1:00 pm:
Does he step short on all types of surfaces? Soft arena vs. hard road? Possible sore feet if he changes with the surface.
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 5:29 pm:
You would think though, that if his feet were sore, the jumping would hurt! He wasn't uncomfortable jumping?? It could be the way he is being ridden too. Some riders just may not encourage their horse the stretch out. Definitely get "doom and gloom" out there!
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Member:
Kstud
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 5:55 pm:
Hi Adria and LL,
Adria the grey TB you are riding looks very sweet and I have only looked at the one photo so it is impossible to judge as the picture could have been taken at a bad moment but it does make him look a bit cramped of his quarters, if you buy him it would be worth having a very thorough vetting anyway.
LL, Thank you for asking about Kiff, he still is a total sweetie and has not put a hoof wrong but I have not lost that feeling of dread yet unfortunately and so have not jumped him or taken him out of his home environment since. I know this is stupid but whilst I have great intentions when I am not riding him they seem to evaporate when I am! Not sure what to do next!
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Member:
Adriaa
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Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:57 pm:
I don't have a photo of him w/o tack. I'm sure Dr. D & G will see many things, he's very thorough, watching the horse move, free and also ridden, plus he says he'll have his hands everywhere. Everyone says he's the best although I've gotten mixed feelings from folks, he could throw so much information at you that you become confused.
I don't think it's his feet, he jumps well, with out a blip. His strides are short and quick. So he moves out but with more strides. He is barefoot and his feet are really nice.
Terri, I read the discussion on Jules, it does sound like Dozer including the very high withers, he needs a pad with the saddle she's riding him in. My first horse was like that, but he had a huge trot... bareback was hard needless to say. I'm glad that you figured him out and he's doing well.
He is an ex-racehorse, anything could have happened. I don't have anyone to ask about that, but he could also have had a history like Jules'.
I notice Christos was in on that discussion, he'd probably have some insight as well. But I read he hasn't been around in a while.
Catherine, it's called day dreaming, I picture myself doing a floating half pass across the arena, yeah like in my dreams!
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 8:24 am:
Catherine - so glad to hear Kiff is still being the lovely boy you know him as. Perhaps you should just carry on as you are for now and not push yourself to do anything more challenging with him for a few months. Meanwhile you could occasionally loose-school him over some jumps to see if he's still cool with that. Are your husband and trainer still riding him too?
A sudden thought: as you've only spoken to his breeder on the phone, do you think there could have been a mix-up with his papers and another horse's? Wouldn't it be great if you were talking about different horses?
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Member:
Kstud
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 3:22 pm:
Hi LL,
No such luck I am afraid as all that mares other foals were fillies! The loose schooling is a good idea, will try that and I am happy to potter around on him anyway at the moment as the days are short cold and wet! What has happened to Christos, I noticed I hadn't seen his name for a while?
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