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  Discussion on How to train a horse to attacking dog
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Member:
Dove2

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 12:44 pm:

My daughter was riding on our boarding farm property the other day, when the neighbor's Rotty ran down the hill, teeth bared, barking. The other horse turned backwards and tried to kick the dog, who was now biting at her hind legs. Meanwhile, my daughter's horse started kicking out, jumping and turning, and generally freaking out.

I've read the previous posts here which touched upon this subject, and the suggestion was to train my horse to this sort of situation. But I'm not sure how to go about doing that. Any tips?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 3:46 pm:

Dove2,
What I do with all my horses, is first, teach them to give to the bit really well, and then, whenever there is something scary (dogs are great for training) just keep my horse facing the dogs. It's okay for my horse to stop and look, but not okay for him to back up or try to spin and run. After a couple of seconds, I ask the horse to move forward, toward the dogs . . . until I get the DOGS to be the ones to back off.

I have never had a pack of dogs attack with biting, but I have had several dogs run barking toward me. I just keep the horse facing the dogs, and have always had the dogs stop or back off.

Down the road from us, there are four dogs that used to come charging whenever I rode by. I have consistently made the horses stop, turn and face the dogs each time, while I chat to the dogs, "Hey, there . . . whatsa matta with you? Whatcha doin'?" etc . . . and the dogs have gotten so that they stay up by the house now and just let us ride by. Sometimes, one of them will come trotting up, but when he hears my voice, he just snuffles around on the ground and wanders back to the house.
Most importantly, I have found, is to not let the horse scoot by the dogs . . . Not only does it reinforce the dogs in their chasing as they think they've scared the horse away, it also trains the horse to be afraid of the dogs. I want my horse to face what he's afraid of and to walk off calmly when I allow it. So far, this has worked for me, and I'm training the neighbor's dogs for other riders, too.
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 4:26 pm:

Dove ... I use the exact same method as Holly, and most all dogs will turn or back off. I practice with my own dogs at home.

It is funny though, my dogs are constantly around my horses. I have blue heelers and they love to help move horses around when changing pastures, etc. If I start a tractor, the dogs will immediately make sure no horses are around the gates, etc. The dogs can move the horses at will.

However, the dogs are always around and in and out between their legs, etc. and the horses could care less. The dogs go along on rides and when mounted, the horses don't even pay attention to the dogs. However, when I ask the dogs to move the horses, the horses are willing to move along. I guess they are all smart enough to know the difference. So much for stupid animals .. huh.

DT
Member:
Kstud

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:02 pm:

I do the same thing too, three dogs used to come out and bite at the horses when we rode past a certain house. Even though our own dogs are loose and our horses hunt they became scared. One day I got so cross I turned around and made my horse chase the dogs, since then they rarely bother coming out and if they do I chase them right back to their front door. Believe me they slink away really quickly!
Member:
Dove2

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:04 pm:

Thanks, DT and Holly. There are, in fact, dogs around the boarding barn however they aren't charging, barking and baring their teeth! This dog was actually biting at the horse's legs!

It was awfully hard, no...impossible, to keep my daughter's horse facing the dog because the horse was spinning, jumping, etc. Thank goodness for grab straps on an English saddle!

So the best way to proceed training the horse for these types of encounters would be to make sure she can give to the bit really well? My daughter did an emergency dismount shortly afterwards because her horse was extremely hyper. I know some folks prefer to stay on the horse's back when a horse is petrified like this, others don't. What are the pros and cons of staying on vs. getting off?

Also, are you suppose to stand still or move toward the dog until the dog retreats? What if the dog continues to keep barking and attacking? (I must admit, this is one of my own personal fears of trail riding.) I like the squirtgun with vinegar idea in one of the previous posts.
Member:
Kstud

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 6:31 pm:

Move towards the dog as fast as you can make the horse and shout at the dog in no uncertain terms. Mind you a squirt gun may be a help as well or if you think that it could help carry a stick to chase the dogs with too. If the dogs make the horse leave their "territory" then they will be even worse the next time. By using a big horse, as in big in comparison to the dog so even a pony will do, to show dominance to the dog, even the bravest dog or even a pack of them will retreat in the face of determined opposition. However you must be determined so perhaps someone could ride your daughters horse to face the dogs for her if she has had a fright. It is very bonding for a horse and rider to make the horse face and challenge its fear and it will give the horse huge trust in itself and its rider. One young horse we had transformed after we did this. It used to be very spooky but it became confident and was always willing to check things out rather than just running away.In other cases just by pushing the horse to chase the dogs has made them much more obedient especially in scary situations. However do not put your daughter in a situation that she does not feel that she can control or where she may be in danger, but that goes without saying.
Member:
Erika

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 8:46 pm:

I like what Catherine and the others say. Also please do not have your daughter dismount with marauding dogs attacking! It puts her into the way of more harm by the dogs, and lessens the ability to control the horse.

I have never had a dog do anything but run away when a horse starts to chase it--especially with a growling, snarling rider atop!!
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 8:59 pm:

Maybe I just have a big mouth, but I've always found that sternly telling the dog to go home and git works. But like everyone else says, keep facing the dog too.

I could loan my little Arab mare out, she loves to go after dogs. Ears flattened, teeth bared, front feet trying to crush their little skulls. I figure I spend more time telling her NO, than the dogs! With the exception of a blue heeler we had, he drew blood on 2 of our horses, don't care for that breed. Sorry Dennis, maybe he was just in my life at the wrong time. They are beautiful dogs.

Could you borrow a paint ball gun?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 10:16 pm:

Catherine, your point about instilling confidence in the horse is SOOOO important. It's especially important when training a youngster. Thank you for bringing it up.
In order for us to instill confidence in our horses, WE have to have the confidence that we can handle the situations that come along. One of the best ways to do that is to work on LOTS of balance exercises so that we are secure on our horses, and another vital requirement is to have a plan for what to do when faced with the unexpected: bicycles, motorcycles, ATVs, school buses, semis, farm equipment, baby carriages, balloons, wind socks, bear, moose, hot air balloons, barking dogs, etc.
One of the best things we can do for young riders is put them on responsive horses and prepare them with a game plan of what to do in emergencies.
When we are prepared, it is so much easier for us to boldly face the curve balls that come our way.
I prefer to stay mounted . . . I've always felt safer on top than next to an excited horse. I have always been able to put a nutty horse on a tight circle, haven't always been able to control a horse that is jumping and rearing next to me. Of course, if you are on the ground with a nutty horse, you can always let go of the lead, and that way, you are out of harm's way.
Be sure, if you go the squirt gun route, that your horse is trained to a gun shooting over his head or from his back. I'd hate to see what would happen if a horse was freaking out over something on the ground AND something on his back.
Member:
Dove2

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 6:26 am:

Thank you all so much for your suggestions. I'm going to get to work on this, perhaps starting by walking (saddled) towards a non-barking/attacking dog, and then maybe having a few squirt gun fights in the arena. (You'd think after going through one of Rick Pelicano's "exciting" bombproofing clinics that everything else would seem tame by comparison, but I see there are a lot of challenges out there!)
Member:
Frances

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 8:36 am:

I heartily endorse the effectiveness of the above advice, especially Erika's "snarling growling rider" (really works well) and Catherine's point about how good being able to get ride of predators together is for the horse's trust and confidence in its rider.

If you can get the attacking dogs to retreat you can almost SEE the horse swell with pride and satisfaction - and what started as a negative situation ends up as a very positive one.
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 8:56 am:

I have to agree with Erika about staying mounted. The last place you want to be is on the ground between a snarling dog and a panicky horse.
I used to carry a high powered pellet hand gun which also works well .. carries a pretty good sting, but not loud. But, I have never seen a dog not back down when you yell at it and get the horse to face it and move towards it. If you turn to run away, it will almost always come after you with renewed vigor.

DT
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 1:38 pm:

I've "chased" dogs, water trucks, drags, horses pulling carts, ponies, you name it, while mounted.

Definitely seems to give the horses confidence. It also helps for the rider to stay calm and confident. I really like being the only one to remain in the arena when the water truck or drag comes in.

Came in real handy when a member of the ring crew decided to drag the arena DURING one of my dressage tests!!

Chris
Member:
Ilona

Posted on Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 - 9:16 pm:

I had a problem when on a narrow mountain trail when a dog sprung up loudly on the side of us. My horse, being very prone to flight just took off up the vertical mountain side. Not fun. In that circumstance there was no way to face the dog. However, I did calm my mount verbally and by doing pronounced deep breathing myself. It settled both of us. The dog couldn't, or wasn't bothered to keep pace. This horse however is very bonded with me and I generally turn to face and approach everything that is potentially an issue.
With vehicles I like to stop if I hear them, go off the side of the road and face the road until the vehicle is gone. Mind you, I don't ride where there is heavy traffic; I wouldn't make any progress at all! Now my horses corrals border a road and I have lots of dogs around so they are pretty much desensitized to those two hazards.
Now if only I could say the same about horse-eating goats!
Member:
Dove2

Posted on Friday, Jan 12, 2007 - 7:08 am:

It's going to be quite a challenge to get a flighty animal to stand and face the monster. I think our young horses would do like yours did, Ilona: take off no matter where. That must have been awfully scary - for you! Thanks for the tip about keeping sane enough to verbally calm the horse, especially the deep breaths. I am starting to get into a habit of deep sighs when I think my horse might spook while leading her/him. It's a different ballgame, though, when they panic with a real monster vs. a perceived monster.

Thank you everyone, these have been good suggestions. I'm still nervous about the possibility of a dog attack but I'll know not to intentionally run, to try to face the attacker, yelling as loud as I can, and try to move forward towards the dog(s). Now, if I can only convince my horse of the plan!
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