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Discussion on Problem # 13 at my farm :D
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 11:24 am:
I have three horses here on my property. About two months ago, I had to seperate my long yearling from his grandmother and mom. He had been escalating in his "play" with grandma to the point where he was chasing her away from hay and nipping her and he was winning the dominance war. Looking back, this should have been done awhile ago and I'm forever sorry about not recognizing it sooner.
Now the situation is he is in his own paddock 7am to 4pm, then he's kept with his mom for awhile for some social time (who he chews at, so it's only grandma that he gets dominant with), then put in a stall at about 5:30 for the night. The two mares are free to come and go in and out of the barn during the night but I do put their hay inside, so he's never "alone", at least while there's hay in the barn. Things had been going fine....until the last 4 mornings.
The routine has been I enter the barn in the morning (I have no grain at this point, just treats to get grandma into her stall so I can feed everyone seperately. I should add he used to get a treat also when he was out 24/7 to get him into his stall, but this has since stopped cause he's already there), I put Grandma into her stall, turn to walk back out of the barn to get the grain, and at this point, Legs starts pinning his ears at me and lounging at his door, all while looking right at me. Not knowing what else to do, I yelled "Knock it off" loudly but didn't want to get too close and he stopped. That didn't work for the third morning, so I "charged" him at the door, while yelling. He didn't back down but his ears went back up. This morning, same thing, except this time I ignored him. I don't want to make this a "war" between us before I check with you guys first. He does NOT do this for his evening feed (maybe because he's already been out all day? Maybe because he gets a treat to get him in the stall?). The other strange part is, he doesn't do this when I come back with the grain. Then he's back to normal. He watches me, ears forward, I walk to his stall and then he and I walk together to his grain bin (me on the outside and him on the inside) so I can't use this time as a "training session".
He's been well behaved with everything else, including leading him to and from his paddock. I am also IN the stall with him at least twice a day to give him more water or give him his hay and he's never shown an ounce of aggression at me then.
I've read DrO's articles on aggression and stall manners and I'm confused. He looks and acts like he wants to take my head off, but doesn't follow thru with his threats. Not that the threats are allowable, but how do I let him know this? Do I still use the crop, even though he's not biting or striking at me? I'm well aware this could turn into a bad situation if I even let this threatening behavior go on.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 11:39 am:
'Nip' it in the bud now.. He may be threatening now,.. but he could get enough nerve to follow thru soon enough.. ON that note I have a mare that acts very similar , but only when in the barn baby sitting the'broken' filly... She appears to be protective of her food , and again only in the barn.. Competition? could be .. I use a riding crop to make her back off the manger when I go in... That works well,and she now when I open the stall door moves away without me having to posture her...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 - 11:57 am:
Kim,
I don't have experience with training or changing behaviors of aggressive horses but I agree that this might be a sign of future escalation. One story to share was a friend of mine was a groom and exerciser at the race track that holds the preakness...there was this nasty mare that showed signs of aggression. One day she called in sick to work and another groom was putting bedding in the stall. For some reason the mare snapped and hauled off and kicked the sub groom in the head....she died instantly! Poor soul.
Anyway, I sure do hope that no one ever has to go through a similar situation....I am with Ann. Nip it in the bud now. There are others on here who can share great advice as to how to make that happen.
Good Luck!
v/r
Corinne
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 6:41 am:
The problem Kim is I am uncertain what the horses motives are and therefore reluctant to engage the behavior, it may simply be attention getting, which is being successful with what you think of as correction, and why it is worsening. My first inclination whenever presented with difficult to explain behavior is to completely ignore it.
If it persists I would consider either closing the upper door (if you have one and a completely enclosed stall) or upon entering the barn, walking in his stall and tying him to a side wall (not a back wall) until the rest of the chores were done. This "tie" needs to be strong enough so that there is no chance of it breaking. Any raucous behavior that ensues from this correction should be completely ignored and it will extinguish in time.
Ever so often give him a chance not being tied and good behavior rewarded by continuing to not be tied.
DrO
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 10:57 am:
Well, this morning, I decided to completely turn the tables around on him! Instead of walking in and blowing past him to get Grandma first, I walked in and immediately went to him and rubbed his head and kissed him and told him he was a good boy (but no treats!). Talk about a horse looking shocked, LOL! This took him completely off guard and he was his normal, pleasant self after I put Grandma up for their grain. I don't think he knew WHAT to make of me this morning!
Thanks DrO for your assesement and the corrections to use! I also felt I was making more of it in his mind by acknowledging it the first few times, hence starting a war. When I ignored it yesterday morning, I don't think it lasted as long. This morning I thought if I totally disarmed him, he wouldn't think to act up. But, morning feeding time constraints don't always allow for petting time, so it'll be back to usual and I'm not even going to look at him if he's bad. Hopefully he'll get the picture.
Wow Corinne! That poor lady. Legs behavior was reminding me of a mare that I used to board with. She was the nastiest mare I'd ever seen. She would lunge and bite at anyone (vet, farrier, boarders, her owner) walking past her stall. She was a terror and she was never corrected and nothing was ever done about it. I pray I don't end up with a situation like that. They're solution was to breed her  . I remember the placenta didn't deliver and she walked around with it hanging out for 24hrs because nobody could get near to her to even sedate her. The vet REFUSED to attempt to get her with an injection (and I don't blame the guy one bit). They ended up getting her to eat oral Ace and she got tranquil enough to treat. What a nightmare!
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Member:
Shanson
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Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 2:37 pm:
Gosh, this is a pet peeve of mine. So many people fail to properly train alpha mares and excuse this kind of behavior because "it's a mare." This is such a disservice to the horse when you consider that, with proper training and handling early on, they can learn to be polite and obedient.
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Member:
Lynnea
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Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 4:46 pm:
Just a thought...but I would attribute his behavior those days with him being used to getting that treat and when you walked past him to Grandma he knew you had a treat for her. They are creatures of habit, and he resented the change, but knew grandma still got hers..and you had a treat with you. I have hidden cookies in my pocket for a certain horse in my barn, given it to her when no one could see, and yet my other horse would start talking and acting up....she knew full well what I was doing!!. As soon as I stopped doing that...the problem was solved.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 8:20 pm:
Sharon, I hear ya! My pet peeve is when people breed mares like that, thinking the pregnancy will "calm" them down instead of working on some good old training to correct the problem. If memory serves, she taught her foal a lot of her behaviors.
Lynne, I mentioned the treats cause I was wondering the same....hmmmmm....maybe I won't give Grandma any treats either (she usually walks in on her own anyways). I really don't want to give Legs any treats cause he's at that lippy stage. He doesn't need any more encouragement to put his mouth on me!
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