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Discussion on Stops,turns around or backs up need help
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 - 9:31 pm:
I have a great horse, not a beginners horse but we get along well together. Over the last few weeks while we are trail riding he will stop seems as if he has seen something or today going through water (he loves water)..ears up, neck arched, feeling tense he stops in his tracks, tries to turn or back up & resist being turned back around, today his front came up off the ground when he backed up, not a rear, but could have been. This usually occurs in an area where it would not be safe to fight with him. Today at the water it was slippery so I let him go back a very short way to maneuver him around on dry ground. I did pop him a few times on the rump with my reins & lots of leg and got him to move forward,turn back to the water & he calmed down then he walked through like no big deal, but the behavior has me baffled. Another time he did this on a trail we have traveled many, many times I want to nip this in the bud & work through this with him. Any suggestions?
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 6:52 am:
I am working on this with my horse too. From what I am understanding, you are right in what you did. You can't let him "win" but you have to make decisions that will keep you and him safe. I think it is a matter of trying to see it coming and prevent it first. If you know there is a spot that he will balk at or if you feel him suck back try to catch it quick and either growl or whatever to get him to move on. Whatever you do, don't cave. I think that you did the right thing in the unsafe spot. You didn't fight, but you made him mind you in the end. I have even gotten off, because my horse gets pretty irrational. He will back and back until he crashes (into trees, etc.). So I have had to get off at times, but I still make him do what I had asked in the first place. A battle of the wills!!
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 8:04 am:
Wow! My QH mare used to do all of the above. I actually had to jump off once and grab her by the bridle to keep her from falling down a steep DrOp-off. She did get better over time, but I never really understood what caused the behavior. She'd gallop into her favorite swimming spot over and over, but ten minutes later would refuse to walk through a small stream she'd crossed a dozen times. She was otherwise fabulous, and we were best buddies for nine years until she died, but the odd behavior on the trail was an issue that never was quite resolved.
I'll be curious to read the other responses to this question.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 10:07 am:
My gelding did this when he was younger, to the point he got dangerous. It was a form of barn
sour...taken to the extreme. He knew he scared me when he did it and I did not get after him strong enough for fear of what he might do if I did.
After a year of this behavior I decided it was him or me, and got tough I started carrying a whip with me and if I FELT his hesitation coming he got a good crack. SLOWLY this behavior started dissipating it probably took a good year for it to disappear.
Then this last summer after a few good years he tried it AGAIN. It shocked me so much I didn't react quickly enough and he continued occasionally to catch me off guard. As you said they seem to know where to do it so you can't discipline them for fear of falling. He started this when I would start going down the path to cross the creek in our pasture. He knew when we did this he was going to have to pull some big hills and he didn't want to.
Very long story made short we had the battle of wills many times. I won the battle after a few times, but the key was to keep my cool and to stop the behavior BEFORE it started. So on the way towards the path if I felt any hesitation I kicked him hard, if I felt further hesitation he got a good crack on the rear. He learned that a slight kick meant I was serious and what would follow was going to mean business. He got over it. I think encouraging forward motion when you FEEL it coming is key.
I don't doubt it will crop up in our future again, and he will need another reminder of who's "in charge"
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New Member:
pjduback
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 2:26 pm:
Just a thought, are they smelling something they not use to? Good be an odor left from another animal that is strange to them. I trail ride a lot, and there is always the 'Oh I can't go down that path(that I've been down a million times!), something doesn't smell right'. I have gotten off to investigate what it might be and have spotted feces from another non-horse species! Their nose are much more sensitive then humans. The key is to let them know its OK to be concerned but we are still going to it! Hopes this helps.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 3:41 pm:
Are you sure that he's being bolshy, or do you think he might be genuinely scared of something?Do you know of anything that may have happened to make him lose confidence? If he's become insecure for some reason, going on a few trail rides with another horse and rider might restore his confidence.
Otherwise I agree with what others have written above, that he's trying to assert his will over yours and a good whack at the slightest indication that he's even thinking about pulling the same trick is the best plan.
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Member:
mcbizz
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 4:38 pm:
Anita, my 16 year old Mustang has done this and it can be really dangerous. He has backed right into a bush or shallow ditch after stopping, head up, snorting. I stay on him but stop him from backing any way I can, not always easy! I've also popped him with the reins, whatever it takes to keep him moving forward. I bought some Prince of Wales spurs, haven't used those yet, but will if this continues. Ordinarily he's the laziest horse on the planet, but if he decides he doesn't want to do something, it is a battle of the wills. He will sometimes try to sneak a buck into the fun, but he only gotten away with that once. I use a good bit (split Kimberwick, with curb chain)so can pull his head around quickly if necessary. He's a big muscular guy, I'm a small person, so I need leverage! Once I get him out of it, we continue and have a good ride. He would much rather be hanging around the corral, eating, snoozing, etc. than being ridden...I think it's his way of testing. But it really can be a challenge so stay on guard.
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 4:43 pm:
My initial response when this started was what's up? what are you seeing that I'm not.. and I was being patient with the go forward process until he started the turning & backing & did not want to turn around when I asked. He's usually pretty good, easy going and not one to spook, his biggest spook is a four foot plant. There are other animals where we ride, but he has been riding the same trails & usually when something like that is out of whack, he may stop, lift his head, but always moves on when asked usually at a faster pace than before. So not sure that is what's up I have probably given him some response that continues to encourage his stopping & backing behavior. I need to get tougher with him.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 5:44 pm:
I think a lot of the responses here are correct. You have been with this horse on the trails every time he's been on them right? So if anything bad happened, you would have been there to witness it.
We all have days when we just don't feel like doing whatever. Maybe he just didn't feel like going out.
I often refer back to the old Colonel that I rode with as a kid. He pretty much summed up the cavalry approach that "there's nothing I will lead you into that will hurt you as much as my spurs will if you don't go there"!
I know it sounds harsh, but the real gist of it is that the horse can trust you not to put him in a situation that will endanger him. And once he is trained, he MUST do as you wish, or he could be endangering you.
You both have to trust and take care of each other. If he isn't holding up his end of the bargain, he needs to realize some consequence.
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Member:
gillb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 4:25 am:
I have a similar problem only mine is a four year old pony who hasn't been out much. If he is unsure about something he will stop, back up or go sideways - and he is totally immune to the whip! If anything a good crack with the whip will make him go backwards even faster.
I either have to sit it out or turn him right round and back him up - we are getting quite adept at this! This way I don't give in to his wishes and we keep going in the same direction. It's not ideal though if vehicles arrive on the scene ..
In his case he is not being deliberately naughty, he is lacking in confidence, so I don't want to punish him but neither do I want him to get away with this behaviour. I plan to hack him out with an older horse until he has seen more of the world, and hopefully sees that nothing out there is going to eat him.
Horses behave in very puzzling manners sometimes, but to them, there is always a reason! I used to have a pony who like yours, went on a particular ride many, many times with no problem. I was going down the same path once in a fast canter when all of a sudden she put the brakes on and I went sailing over her head! Nothing at all that I could see, but she obviously saw something.
Have you tried leading your horse through this tricky bit? I know that many people may say not to get off but perhaps if you did it a few times he would see that there is nothing to be worried about.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 5:53 am:
I agree with Gill that there are times when getting off and leading your horse past a scary place, while not ideal, can solve the problem just like that. I have done it when, as Anita and others have said, my horse has started to back and spin and panic in a steep, stony and dangerous spot at something I can see ahead. Horse has followed past the offending object, which I've stopped and thumped gently to show it doesn't bite, and for ever after we've had no problems in that spot.
I think this is most appropriate when you're sure the horse is genuinely scared rather than playing up, but even if it's the latter it's better than backing into a ditch or ruining your horse's legs on bad ground.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 6:31 am:
Doesn't it feel better Anita that so many others have had the same problem? My horse's two major triggers are back to the barn and tight spaces.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 7:32 am:
I think that if he is really scared and not playing up getting off and helping to deal with it from the ground is the best. Its not giving up or letting him get away with anything. He is scared and you are his leader show him its OK.I have even gotten off and lead them into the water and mounted in the river and just stood there for a while.
If he wont go over it for another reason, I would defiantly not force him how can you force a 1,000 pound animal. If he runs back don't stop him I found this backfires and rarely works or teaches them anything. Just as in teaching trailing loading. allow them to run back so they don't feel trapped( as long as there is not a cliff)  let him take one step and praise praise praise, keep doing this if he runs back thats OK let him ,and you start from scratch thats OK. He will stop running back once you have trust and he knows he wont get hurt by going where you want.This also teaches trust. If you think he is really being naughty you could, after you have allowed him to back .In an area near by work him in circles etc so that going by the bridge river or water or what ever is not so bad. Its basically the same technique used in teaching trailer loading. It works for me. I hope this helps
Katrina
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 9:10 am:
Why does it give me a bad feeling to hear advice saying that it's okay to back up as an evasion?
I think it is a really annoying and dangerous behavior and I would certainly be quick to punish. It can quickly turn into running backward every time the horse doesn't want to comply.
To me, leg means forward, period. Not any direction the horse wants to take me. I guess I have dealt with enough horses that are quick to take advantage, that I am very gun shy about ignoring any bad behavior under saddle.
I wonder what our resident cowboy would do about this...Dennis, are you out there? What about Melissa Boschowitz (sorry if I spelled wrong), can you give us a dressage perspective?
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 9:46 am:
Erika,
I did it your way or the other way for about 30 years. Thats the way I always thought, never let them get there way.
. Usually once they know you aren't going to stop them from backing they stop backing. Why would they continue to do something so hard unless they were arguing with you. They cant and wont run away while going back wards its too hard. I use backing as punishment. I also if they back up and are really naughty keep them backing until I say to stop. they hate that Believe me they will stop on their own.
Any way its the fastest way I have found to stop this behavior.
I see too many people smacking and kicking thier horses to cross a bridge or something. I will never use that route again though I was guilty of it for many years.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:03 am:
Amen, Erika.
Somewhere on this site, there is a long discussion about similar actions and training. Definitely do NOT allow the horse to go backwards or turn away . . . always keep the forward cue going (need strong legs for this and a horse trained to the verbal cue for MOVE) and don't give up until you get SOMETHING moving forward on the horse . . . an ear, a nose reaching forward, a step . . . ANYTHING . . . and then praise and ask again . . . and use one rein to bend the horse if you feel any inkling of a rear or buck or backward movement . . . and get the horse to take a step to try to straighten his body . . . and then face him the way you want to go and cue for FORWARD. It may take 45 minutes to go three feet . . . but it's worth it . . . because next time, the horse will know that you are serious, and it will take less time to get him to respond to the forward movement . . . and it will also build confidence in the horse to know that when you ask for forward, you know what you're asking for and that when he finally decides to go forward, nothing bad happens . . . and he will get praised.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:10 am:
Katrina I have to wonder if you have ever ran into a horse like my gelding, it was the first time I have owned a horse like this in 30 + years. I call him the master of evasion. If I back him in response to backing, he thinks that's great, he'd back right off a cliff (before), doing circles did NOTHING! Another horse along didn't help either.
He was not spooking, he didn't want to go. The only thing that cured him was a few lessons learning leg means forward OR ELSE!
I really thought he was one of a kind I never ran into such behavior before. This horse taught me alot about riding and about myself.
If a horse is truly scared it's different, but mine wasn't he was just testing! I failed the test the first year and he turned into a dangerous moron. It wasn't until I had some lessons on how to handle this did he start to reform, but he had my number and it was a long row to hoe.
I actually had a post in here asking for help, I think it was called one step forward and 2 steps back. Dr.O hit the nail on the head back then (as usual) and said I was overfaced and it was true, but we worked thru it with help of a trainer.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:11 am:
Sorry, katrina . . . didn't read your post before I posted mine . . . and if something works for you, then I guess it works. I just have to say that I never let my horse pick the movement when I'm around him on the ground or on top. Just as I don't let my car make decisions to move off or turn without my direction, so I won't let my horses choose without me asking. Now . . . in training . . . if I KNOW my horse is THINKING of doing something for which I want to teach the cue, I will cue him just before he does it or as he commences doing it . . . and if my horse doesn't KNOW the cue for "BACK-UP," and I want to teach it, then I guess that's different, but if I'm already cueing for "FORWARD," and my horse is refusing me . . . then I don't stop cueing for "FORWARD" until I get SOMETHING moving forward, and then I release the cue and praise. I think that makes sense to the horse . . . and lets him know that he's not the pilot.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:20 am:
This is an issue we deal with regularly when training young or inexperienced horses. However, you will be tested occasionally by even your best trail horse. Although horses are different, and situations may differ, I handle pretty much the same. Safety is always first, so be aware of the situation and don't be afraid to get off if necessary.
I handle stubbornness, and legitimate fear in much the same way. I figure I basically have 2 goals. #1 is to get from point A to point B .. #2 is to have a calm horse and rider upon arrival.
I keep the horse facing point B, if he wants to stop and investigate a bit, that is OK as long as he keeps facing the right direction. Running backwards is not an option and spinning away just means continued spinning until facing again, then stop. My concept is that I can not "force" the horse to go anywhere. My job is to lead him to the obstacle and encourage him to make the right decision by asking forward .. and forward is always forward, but a half step, or even sticking nose out in that direction is a legitimate try, and I will stop and reward at that point. My encouragement for forward is an escalation of aids, from leg, to spur, to a tap on the rump, to a smack on the rump. The key is to be firm and consistent, and not let the horse determine the rules.
If the surroundings are too unsafe and I have to dismount, I follow the same basic principle from the ground.
DT
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:38 am:
Diane I have never had a really stubborn horse so you are right in that regard.
I guess really thinking, this probably works more with fear. I dont ever let them think its their idea . I always turn it around so he thinks I am in charge. Like Holly says reacting before they do if you know they are going to do something. As I see the horse thinking of backing I encourage it as or before they do . I have never had a forward problem unless their was some fear involved so I guess thats the difference. For me the above happens once or twice then never again in that spot. So if your horse has no fear I guess I would listen to the other advise. Maybe if I get to ride a really stubborn horse I would change my thinking. (maybe)
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 11:24 am:
Katrina I still have him! Come try the boy out. He Tests EVERY new person. I don't have a friend that will get on him!
My trainer, the person that broke him and I are the only ones that have rode him. Everyone that has seen his earlier antics refuse, I've offered
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 12:20 pm:
Thanks everyone! I keep losing my post I press the wrong button & I have to start over.........Yes glad to hear I am not the only one with issues.
I have tried everything except getting off & walking only because the places are not the safest to dismount so I have chose to stay on and work through it. We may go back to the start but we always end up going forward & riding through & will do this several times, so he has not actually won, but I think when we do go back his thought process is that he has won since once he turned we went back to the trail start. One time I circled the trail to come at the trail from a different direction, he tried the same turning maneuver going down the fire road, there I did back him to the flat & circled him then moved on. We spent a long time going back & forth on the same trail that day. I want to make certain I am handling the situation so I do not make it worse and the pop ups this weekend concerns me. Sounds like I should be patient & try to get him more relaxed before asking to move on, but when he quickly turns it can be difficult as the backing ensues. Maybe if he turns I should have him just stand there, not try to go forward or anything till he is settled some? I have spurs but do not typically wear them, I find I ride with my legs closer than I probably should. Rusty is 16.2 and I am 5'2" so I think it is a size thing. I really think he has my number & knows it. He was trying to stop & pee all the time, not that he'd go every time, but he stop, stretch, and have a grand time looking around. Now, I let him pee one time out one time back. He usually pees within 10 minutes of starting out. He would try this when we rode with others and was very annoying..I'd have them ride on if I thought he was into the paper reading mode & he'd change his mind to keep up.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 1:10 pm:
When my arab mare was younger, she would refuse to go into water if she could see it. Marshy areas with the grass hiding the water, weren't a problem. I took to backing her in the water, making her stand there and wait til I said to move out.
I know it sounds like I am letting the horse get away with something if I want a forward movement, but as long as the horse is going the way I WANT to GO, I don't care if it's going backwards or sideways. I am winning, horse is working harder.
Of course you have to stay safe, and also keep working on the forward cues being responded to, but sometimes you have to be a little bit creative if you want to get anywheres.
It was either go back wards with her, or she'd try to jump the whole darn river when she got frantic from being left behind! She fine now, that was many years ago.
Anita,
I wonder, you say about peeing...is it possible he has some pain issues? Kidney? Keep track of time, does he balk after so many minutes? Might be waaaay off, but sometimes things aren't what they seem with horses.
Oh, and having more knowledge now, I would not back a horse straight, I'd make sure one rein was asking for a bend to prevent developing a rearing problem.
I've backed horses home zig zagging down the road when they wanted to do the jigging thing instead of walking nicely. Zig, and Zag, turn and halt. Walk on quietly.
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 1:51 pm:
Initially with the pee stops I was concerned & even talked with my vet...Rusty is always totally relaxed at these stops truly like time to read the paper and does not seem to go too frequently at home and never in the trailer always as we start on the trail. I ride frequently with my sister in law and she agrees he has my number & is never to the point of being uncomfortable. She has not been with us when he is balking as this is new behavior. I agree with the giving to the rein pressure.. he is being testy & resist the turn, lifts his head unless he wants the turn. He has never acted this way in my small arena. I can ride with a halter & no problems whatever, just goes where you point him and up until recently, I have had no issues on the trail, but I have stopped the stop & pee with once out & once back by making him go & not letting him stop. I am beginning to think I have traded one behavior for the other.
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Member:
mcbizz
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 2:18 pm:
Anita, I haven't seen on this post how old is this guy??? My Mustang never showed signs of bucking until he turned 13 and wow! did he buck!
I think it was because it was very cold out, I hadn't lunged him after not being ridden for a while and he just got too frisky. He got me off (I was using a snaffle bit and dressage saddle) but didn't hurt me bad enough to scare me to death, so I got out the western saddle, a stronger bit, got back on and worked his butt.
The backing up thing has always been his way of showing opposition and I don't think that will ever totally go away. But I am very aware of it and have my "tools" in place when it happens. Some of these guys get pretty smart as the years tick by and keep us on our toes!
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 3:02 pm:
Rusty is a 12 yr old MFT and he is very smart. I have had him over 3 yrs. He is my only horse. He rides well with others or alone/front or back of the pack. If we are out with QH he slows his pace until the way home because his natural stride is very long. He will walk out with other gaited horses, but he can be lazy too. He is ridden/lounged 3 to 5 times weekly. Although the last 6 months more the 3 than the 5 for actual riding too many life issues....which could be he is picking up on my stress level. I am certain we will work through this. When I think about the very first time he did this it was in the field behind our house. He tried to return home before I was ready, so we stayed out there until he would go by the gate without him hedging. There is an incline there & that is where he tried his maneuver turning & backing instead of moving forward past the gate..there it is BARN SOUR! But then he is always willing to come out if not greet me when we ride, easy to halter, easy to bit. He really is a great guy. I am using a myler comfort snaffle with a shank & sometimes I think I send mixed messages. I will be going to a MFT clinic end of Feb. and taking Rusty.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 8:54 am:
Barn sour--I'll never understand why the same horse that takes a month to ride a hundred yards away is the first one out when you leave the gate open!
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Member:
kstud
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 6:00 pm:
Answer to all your riding problems!!!!!! I have accidentally found the solution to spooking, resistance, laziness inability to come on the bit etc. The down side is that there is no short cut, you MUST try it and that is really tough for the guys. The up side is that it is fantastic fun and addictive. I had the same problems as Anita until recently and was always wondering why my horse would DrOp on to the bit with my trainer and flow beautifully but would just poke his nose with me. Out trail riding he would spook for no reason and dictate the pace a lot. He could be pulling the arms out of me one minute and dawdling along the next. Of course I blamed myself even though I am riding 35 years (I am 40), ride daily and get LOTS of professional training. I am very fit and slim and though I say it myself, incredibly flexible as I do Bikram Yoga and Pilates twice weekly. Even so I did suspect a slightly stiff right hip and a slightly forward pointing left shoulder but so minor that my trainer could not see it and therefore felt it was of no importance as my horse was not crooked and did not favour any side which he should if I was riding crookedly. I look straight on video too.
So I hear you screaming, what was the answer...........................................Belly Dancing! I kid you not, I signed up for classes with a friend for a joke. After just one session my shoulders and hips loosened up so much that I was following the contact in a way I had never felt before. I have always had good hands but now I realise how blocking they really were. My hips now follow the movement no matter what and I realised that my horse was only spooking out to the left as he obviously had discovered a weakness, ie my right butt cheek did not follow and stick on the saddle. Now I am like super glue and he does not bother. My leg position is so much stronger and the two of us are way way happier and more relaxed, and you should see my dressage now. I mainly jump but I took this horse (broken and riding three months) to a registered dressage show last weekend and won both Prelim classes (first level in USA) even though I have never even been placed before in dressage. I can now sit to the sitting trot and a bouncy canter. It is like magic!! So there you go girls, get out the skirts and go belly dancing, it will transform your riding.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 7:39 pm:
That is the LAST thing I thought you would say Catherine. Now, where do I get me one of them' belly dance training tapes?????
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 10:42 pm:
Catherine . . . No kidding? Really? Cool!!!
Cross-referencing threads here, but I guess we "Saddlebags" will definitely have to let Corinne be a member or mascot . . . as she is a Belly Dancer Extraordinaire!!!
Can you speak to this, Corinne?
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 11:52 pm:
Well, I was definitely not expecting that! We were out today alone and he did absolutely wonderful, but I don't think this new behavior has been on a consistent basis anyway. I may check into the belly dancing..thing could prove useful in more ways than one
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 1, 2007 - 8:06 pm:
Yeah, same here, Catherine. I pictured you with no time for anything but riding and horse care! Fantastic!
I have mentioned my kick boxing here before. Good for getting the legs up to the stirrup and general strength and endurance. But I was considering yoga--I know I need more stretch and flex, but I count the SECONDS going by...it is so tedious. So maybe bellydancing is the answer!!
Great suggestion!
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Friday, Feb 2, 2007 - 9:16 am:
My boy tried his antics yesterday when I took him out alone. It is definitely barn sour/lack of confidence being alone with him. He wants to jig all the way home and I was working on having him stand for a few moments and also turning the opposite direction when I wanted to. He would have mini tantrums, backing squealing, bucking,etc. I THINK that once he realized I wasn't backing down, he chilled out quicker than he has with past tantrums. While I was growling, booting, smacking (the whole time saying, "eyes up, shoulders back"...) I was thinking, "This is for Anita!"
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Member:
rusty
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Posted on Friday, Feb 2, 2007 - 5:50 pm:
Thanks Gwen! We were out today & he tried once to do his stunt...when we were going to cross a major street with lots of traffic. Unfortunately he seems to get a small reward since I let him turn & walk back through the horse crossing to an area about 15 feet off the road as there was a bus coming & I needed more room to work with him. As soon as he started the backing I brought his head down & we proceeded to go in circles for a few times. I turned him toward the road, he walked on as if nothing out of the ordinary had occurred. I truly believe he is just being willful and seeing if he can get away with it. Otherwise we had a wonderful ride
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