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  Discussion on Mare throws her head violently when I try to bridle her
Author Message
Member:
Chilie

Posted on Friday, Oct 4, 2002 - 8:04 am:

With 30 days training in training gear ( bitless system) my trainer suggested I try to bit her for more control. She has tried to take off/bolt in an effort to get out of work. I had her mouth examined by a vet and she saw no pysiologocal reason for the resistance to being bitted. My trainer said she is the most stubborn horse he has worked with out of hundreds. any suggestions?
Member:
Belhaven

Posted on Friday, Oct 4, 2002 - 2:24 pm:

It could be the kind of bit is uncomfortable for her shaped mouth....what kind of bit are you using?
New Member:
Andrea1

Posted on Friday, Oct 4, 2002 - 2:51 pm:

Hi Linda,
Oh dear, sounds like you are having quite a time with the horse. If I may, I do have some questions to ask. How old is the mare? How did she react to the vet checking in her mouth? Are there any other situations where she has reacted so violently to handling? How long have you had the horse? Is this the first horse you have sent to this trainer? I am not familiar with the "bitless system"; could you explain to me how it works?

Thanks
Andrea
Member:
Presario

Posted on Saturday, Oct 5, 2002 - 9:58 pm:

I would also venture that horses don't generally bolt to get out of work - they bolt because something hurts, because they are scared, or because their rider isn't keeping them busy enough and they are just being silly. It sounds like this may be the first time a bit has been attempted to be placed in your mare's mouth. Getting the bit in her mouth is the end result, but there are lots and lots of steps that get you there - her holding her head in a comfortable position (ie not in the rafters), her allowing her ears to be handled and have the headstall sliding over them, her opening her mouth when requested, and finally accepting something placed in her mouth. How is she to have the halter ungracefully slipped on and off hear head, over her ears? Will she lower her head to pressure on her poll? Will she calmly allow you to put your fingers in the side of her mouth, where the bit would go? How old is she? Teething could make her mouth sore. Tell us more about her.
Member:
Chilie

Posted on Sunday, Oct 6, 2002 - 11:18 pm:

This is my third attempt at responding to your responses to my problem. I hope it goes through. She is four years old and I have had her a year. She will not allow anyone to look in her mouth such as doing a age check. The vet had to tranquilize her to do the exam. There appeared to be no problems in her mouth. I used the opportunity of her being tranquilized to bridle adn unbridle her several times. As she started to come out of it she started to toss her head again I quit while I was ahead. She will let me slip the wormer in the corner of her mouth or my fingers with minimal problems and allows me to halter her pretty well. As far as my trainer goes I have know him several years and he has trained or worked with 5 horses for me. I have also seen several in varying stages of training with him. He is an excellent horseman with a quiet gentle manner. She is a fairly easy to handle horse in other respects. The bitless system is basically a bosal sort of system. the hystory and function of it are rather lengthy. It is used in training and showing Paso Fino's. Many are never bitted. She halters easily. When I saw violently, its more of a " it would feel violent if her head ( which I view as a 50 sledge hammer) connected with my face. She is tossing it around. The day she tried to take off she was definitely trying to take control of the ride. She was side stepping on rail, refusing to back, had hopped up in a mini rear, was whinnying at her girlfriends that she could see grazing in a nearby field. She was throwing a mini fit and trying to get out of having me ride her so she could go eat grass with her friends. If you have never seen/heard of a horse trying to get out of work I dont know what to tell you. You are welcome to come watch this horse perform that very trick. She does it in the round pen also. The problems of trying to bolt and tossing her head when her mouth is touched are probaly all pointing back to her not being submissive in her mind to training. She also refuses to stand for mounting. I think THATS where the first bolt is. She is not a nervous horse in the game of paitence she will totally relax even cocking a leg to rest to outwait me.
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Monday, Oct 7, 2002 - 8:01 am:

You've certainly convinced me you have a mare who hasn't learned respect yet, and is trying to get out of work. Why not get more help from your trainer? Maybe he can bring her the next few steps, getting her to accept the bit and getting her to accept the notion of work too.
Member:
Andrea1

Posted on Monday, Oct 7, 2002 - 9:57 am:

Hello Linda,
Thanks for the clarification; I thought she bolted when you put the bridle on. She does sound like she wants to take control, and maybe suffers with separation anxiety. I saw this very same behaviour last week at an event, bringing a friend to stand with the horse, helped.

It always seems like the young mares are the ones that feel they need to take control. I know that sometimes my 4-yr-old mare likes to take over. I have had my mare for a year also, and when I first started to bit her, she would tend to reverse fairly quickly. She would also do this when I put the halter on. The following worked for me, but may not work for you. Every time she allowed the bit in her mouth or halter over her head, she would be rewarded with a handful of grain. She is now fantastic about anything to do with her head, and actually opens her mouth for the bit (and grain). Of course this is just one method, and there are millions of others that might work for you.

I wish you the best of luck with your horse. For safety, keep the trainer there, so that he can help if the horse gets out of control.

Best wishes
Andrea......


Member:
Cowgirl1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 10, 2002 - 5:36 pm:

It truly sounds to me as though she's no where near being ready to ride and that you need to go back to the round pen and probably start from the beginning in terms of getting her to respond to your body language and respect you. She needs lots of time sacking out as well, especially when it comes to her head. This may be a lengthy process if she's being that resistant now but if you don't have control on the ground you'll NEVER have control in the saddle. I think if more people understood that basic tennant there would be a lot more happy horses and happy horse owners and a lot less needless accidents. If you're not familiar with some of the methods used by John Lyons or any of the other round pen methods, you would be better off sending her to a trainer who does. I hope everything works out for you. Good luck and keep safe.
Member:
Andrea1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 10, 2002 - 7:24 pm:

Hello Linda,
Any updates on your mare? I would love to hear how things are going.

Best Wishes
Andrea...
New Member:
Marnie

Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 4:22 pm:

I am back for more advice. I will give you a little more history. I bought this beautiful appy mare of the internet. She was from Delaware I live in North Dakota. She was pretty much uptown Georgia Brown. She had never experienced any other livestock or wide open spaces. By our conversations I gathered she was a nervous horse. I just figured some wet saddle blankets and she would be good. She really has adjusted pretty well. I do have a couple of problems. She is pretty slim and just isn't that interested in her feed. Her previous owner said she wouldn't eat just plain oats it had to be sweet feed, they were very short on hay out there. Even sweet feed she could take or leave. Then I went to ride her when she has the bit in her mouth she does this crazy thing with her bottom lipp. She flaps it very loudly and quickly like Mrs. ED or something. It is very loud and very annoying. Then I switched from her snaffle to a bozal. No flapping but she doesn't mind as well. Then I noticed when she ate she was losing grain.So I had her teeth checked. They were bad she had hooks ect. After a week I tried riding her again same thing. Then I left a bridle on her with a bit in her mouth for most of the day she didn't mind it at all. Next day we had a trail ride. She was pretty nervous pranced for quite awhile bottom lip flapping. She finally relaxed and walked and the lip would quit for awhile. However anytime a horse would come up on her she would lay her ears flat back and start lip flapping especially when 2 little colts got close. I am trying to be patient I know she is 3,000 miles from home and has been seperated from the horses she had known since she was a yearling,she is 6. I am just at a loss no one has seen anything like it. It is almost like what new horses do when they smack their lips as a sign of subbmitting. My daughter also told me there is a hormone released when horses do certain things with their mouth that helps with anxiety. So How do I find out is pain or is it nervousness. Also do you have any suggestion to put weight on this mare. The vet said that sweet feed isn't all that great for them and it is hard on their teeth horses were never meant to eat sugar. She is eating oats now but they are not the most important thing in her life. Please help me if you can Thank you very much Marnie
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 8:02 am:

Hi Marnie, We had a mare at the barn that I work at that did this when she was nervous. Very weird indeed, she would lip flap being led or ridden and it was almost always followed with a prance. Sometimes she would do it in pasture also. Strange thing was she was the alpha mare. She never quit doing this lip flapping as long as I knew her, which was about 10 yrs. Maybe when you get her home and she gets less nervous it will subside and the weight will come back, nervousness can really stress some horses.
Member:
Alden

Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 10:21 am:

Marnie,

I'm curious why you'd go all the way to Delaware to buy a horse they admitted was “Nervous”? Isn't there any calm horses in N.D.?

Horses have personalities, the chances are you will not change her personality. So you have to contain and control her with training. Please notice I said training, not equipment, it's common for people to try and control a horse like this with equipment. I'll admit it isn't nearly as easy for the average person to train a high strung or nervous horse verses training a calmer horse; so you have to be pretty good.

What's her worming history, worms could be interfering with her gaining weight.

The lower lip is probably nervous energy, often it's because they have been handled with rough hands. I take horses that need to be retrain to the bit back to square one on the ground. More than likely she needs to be retrained on her ground work anyhow so that's a good place to start.

Good day,
Alden
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 11:57 am:

Marnie,

I think you're on the right track having suspected her teeth especially since there was no problem with the bosal. Depending on how long she's been flapping that lip, it may a habitual thing and even if her teeth issues are resolved, it may not go away. Patience is the name of the game and she may never become dead calm bomb proof.

If you're concerned about her weight, there are several products on the market to help horses maximize use of their feed, you may want to try one. Also, you can try to add fat to her diet, either with corn oil, or rice bran. I haven't seen a horse yet that won't dig into rice bran. Another option is to free feed hay pellets.

Good Luck,
Chris
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