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  Discussion on I need tips for keeping my hands quiet and still at the trot ..
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Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 10:35 am:

I do fine at the walk and ok at the canter with keeping my hands still, but at the trot my trainer says I fidget. She has me linking my fingers together, keeping my knuckles together, even two point so I can get the idea of not moving my hands while at the trot.

My shoulders are back, my stomach toward my spine, my leg position is good, as well as my overall position....If I could only keep my hands quiet at the posting trot!!

Do I just need practice or do any of you have a miracle cure!! (;)
Member:
Canderso

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

What works for me - think of your hands as being connected to your hip bones.

Not in the sense that you need to bring your hands back to your body (Bad bad bad!), but in the sense that they stay in synch with and in front of your hips.

Working through the same problem myself, I am also curious about what your elbows are doing...

Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 1:30 pm:

My elbows are pretty much locked...maybe not as much as they should be at the trot...I'll think about that the next time I ride.

Also, you made me think...my trainer also said I have to work on separating the movements of my hips from the movement (or non-movement) of my upper body...any tips on this?? This may be the key to my fidgeting fingers (;)!!
Member:
Chrism

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 7:03 pm:

What are your fingers actually trying to do? Is the rein changing length? Are you posting and moving your hands with the post? Are you bouncing at the trot and this is causing hand movement?

If you are using a saddle with D's on the front, you can attach a bucking strap and use it to "quiet your hands" a bit. Hook each pinky under it will settle the hands and allow you to be less obvious with your rein aids.

If the horse is slowly taking more and more rein, look at your seat position and make sure your thumb against forefinger (thumbs up!) is preventing the rein from sliding longer. When the horse gives a tug on the rein, sit deeper and close your leg. When you go from walking to trot, you may need to shorten your reins. Also at the canter. Try to have an "equal" contact in each rein. If one is floppy, this is telling you something - start by shortening the floppy rein and applying an inside leg!

Also look at your seat and leg position in general. The core of our bodies does indeed affect our extremities. If the core is wobbley, the extremities will wriggle, too.

Lunging lessons are also very nice for perfecting the seat and making it independent. Often, using the first 15 minutes as lunging lessson can set you up for a very nice ride after.

I am worried that you mention your elbows are locked. Locking implies tension and as riders we don't want tension. We want to be able to give a half halt aid and then relax. If you are feeling tension, that tells me that you are gripping/holding where you shouldn't.

Above all else, remember to breathe to get the tension out. Even hum!

I've been riding for years and go back to the lunge every so often. I also am always seeking to improve - so much to do, so little time!

Just some ideas. Cheers.

P.S. If I had a miracle cure, I'd use it myself! GRIN.
Member:
Sross

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 8:45 pm:

Here are some more ideas:

From Sally Swift's Centered Riding 2:
"Elasticity in elbows to keep arms and hands steady in the rising trot.
It is important in the rising trot that your hands do not move up and down with you as you rise up and down. They must stay still and level in relation to the horse's withers. Therefore, as you rise up, your elbow joint must open, and then close again as you come down."

And from Joy Hirsch in the August 2002 GDCTA newsletter:
Here's a simple exercise that will help riders obtain a quieter hand position. Try first at walk before progressing to trot and canter. Take a small stick or dowel about 8 inches long and 3/4 to 1 inch in diameter. While holding your reins, place the stick horizontally across the hands holding it deep in the web between the thumb and index finger on each hand.
I tried this exercise with a 3/4" wide 8" long dowel. With my small hands, I need a narrower stick to be comfortable. And 8" felt awfully short. I'm going to try it again with a narrower, longer stick.
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 9:30 pm:

Another thing you can try: hold your saddle pad up close to the pommel with a finger or two to steady your hands (think "side reins"), just to educate your body to what "still" means. You won't have an unbroken line from elbow to bit doing this, but your horse won't know that because your hands will be steady, and you'll get a good feel as your horse settles onto the bit (you can focus on impulsion and straightness as you do this). Then you can figure out how to get that same feel of steady still contact without the prop.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 10:25 am:

Wow! Thanks to everyone!!

Chris, I am posting and moving my hands with my body instead of adjusting my hand level as I post...I'm working at this!! Sometimes I do bounce at the trot - he has a real easy slow trot, a bumpy medium trot, and a smooth fast trot. It's the medium trot that gets me bouncing.

What frustrates me is how I can ride a second level canter, but not post!!

I'll see if I can find a bucking strap to try, however, if I do that, how can my arms/hands move with my hips?? I was told that was the natural give to my horse. He's not taking more rein...it's just me (;).

My trainer wants to take my stirrups away this week, do you think that will help??? I'll ask for a lunge lesson for the first part of my lessons.

I think I misspoke on the post above, it's my shoulders I keep back and locked (to keep my upright position).

Thanks so much Chris - as always you are a wealth of information!!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 10:31 am:

Sandra,

Elbow joint must open and close....hmmmmmmmmm. I don't believe I am doing that!! Perfect! Thanks so much!!!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 10:37 am:

Thanks Melissa!

Should I try this on the lunge?

I have the same concern as with the bucking strap Chris suggested, how can my arms/hands move with my hips?? I was told that was the natural give to my horse.

I just love this site!! Forever learning!!!!!

Thank you!
Member:
Fpony

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 10:59 am:

Aileen,
Do you have the access a video taken of your lesson? I found this feedback very helpful as what our mind thinks we are doing and what we really look like are often very differant. This new feedback may help your mind/body to get into sync.

Another suggestion for getting you to open your elbow angle when posting is to think of pushing your hands down on a board as you come up in your post. At first it may feel like you're over doing it in your mind (muscle memory is a strange thing) but in reality it maybe just what you need to keep your hands from coming with you as you post and stay with the horse instead.
Member:
Canderso

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 11:35 am:

Hi again,
If you think of your hips moving forward and back with the horse's movement (horizontal) rather than up and down (vertical), then the hips/hand connection makes sense.

Chris' suggestion of using the bucking strap is great and probably a better starting point - while it won't give you perfect hand position, I found it sure helped me to understand what to aim for.

So I guess we are saying there is no 'magic bullet' but if you get the concept in your brain, then get the concept in your muscles, you can then refine, refine, refine

Good luck!
Member:
Chrism

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 12:18 pm:

No stirrups is good for finding your seat/leg position, as is lunging. So, that is not a bad suggestion at all. Many of us ride without stirrups often, even if it is just a few minutes of warm up at a walk. This helps to stretch the inner thigh muscles to reduce any gripping they may be doing and place the leg. The horse's gentle walk motion along with gravity teases the stretch out of our legs.

As far as how to post without your hands going up and down ... try experimenting with moving your elbows a tad out and away from your body, and/or a tad forward from your body. They need to function independent of your torso as you post. This is only a means to an end, as the chicken wing look is not in, GRIN.

Also, when you are working on the lunge or without stirrups, work on posting. Think of the core of your body (somewhere a bit below and deeper than your belly button) as being lifted up and a bit forward by the horse's movement - almost as if your belly is trying to touch his ears. The horse's movement should gently propel you to post. Your legs should stay draped and on the horse's body as you post. Imagine if the horse should suddenly disappear, you should fall to the ground and remain standing in position!

While shoulders back is good, locked anything is bad. You can loosen shoulders by raising them up to your ears and rotating them forward and backward. Also lifting up hand at a time up high, or doing slow wind mills. Again, you don't want tension, just erect posture that allows your body parts to align one on top of the other.

Your horse sounds super. You are lucky to have one that can teach you along with your instructor.

Cheers!
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

Yes, try holding the edge of your saddlepad on the lunge. Or, cross your stirrups in front of your saddle and hang onto the leathers close to the saddle and pull yourself down into the saddle, on your "tripod", relaxing your hips, feeling the motion of your horse's back,and focusing on going with the motion (use your stomach muscles to do that, not your seat which should stay relaxed). This will help you sit much deeper and bounce less, and the steady contact will help straighten your horse, so your horse will be able to move forward better and come into the bridle and give its back to you, and you'll sit there and feel what it's like when it all comes together. That's the feeling you want to memorize and learn to get again and again on your own. Lunge line lessons are great, take the opportunity to get maximum feel by riding without stirrups.
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 12:23 pm:

PS, I'm advocating sitting trot work, but once you get the feel of a steady hand with steady contact, I think you'll find you can transfer this to posting work pretty easily.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 3:16 pm:

Great ideas Kim! I'll also get my trainer to video me!!

Thank you!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 3:20 pm:

Thanks for your input and support Cheryl!!! I'll take all I can get (;)
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 3:26 pm:

Thanks Chris, and yes, he is WONDERFUL!! My trainer is keeping him one level above me so I can learn faster.

I hadn't thought of riding without stirrups for the warmup walk. I'll try that too!!

I love the description of my belly trying to touch his ears at the post!! Perfect!!

I'll also work on loosening up a bit, I want to ride perfectly so I do tend to get tense to make sure my body doesn't fall out of position (;)

Thanks again!!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 3:36 pm:

Great description Melissa!! Thanks so much!! Hopefully I'll be able to try that for my next lesson!

Thanks again!
Member:
Sross

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 10:22 pm:

Don't worry too much about not being able to follow your horse's mouth with your fingers on the buck strap (absolutely love those things!). Remember that there's less movement to follow in the trot than there is in the walk or canter. (Watch his head as you lunge him, see how his head movement varies at the different gaits.) Hands stay steady, elbow acts as the stabilizing shock absorber between the steady hands and the posting body.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Feb 7, 2003 - 4:43 pm:

Thanks Sandra...great points!!

I have SO much to try!! Thanks so much to everyone!!

Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Feb 8, 2003 - 11:21 am:

I haven't been able to try the lunge work yet, hopefully today...but I focused on the following and it worked (;)!!!

Elasticity in the elbows
pushing down with my hands
belly toward his ears

He was SO good, he kept DrOpping to the walk when I didn't do it right, I asked him to keep going so I could get it right and by g-d, he did!! When I wasn't doing it right his head was UP...Once I got it right, he put his head down and in a frame and I FELT IT!!!!

I just love him!!! AND this board...thanks so very much!!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Feb 10, 2003 - 10:01 am:

Well....my trainer says I have a better position without stirrups!! Go figure...

She had me sit the trot and pull up on the bucking strap (she gave me one)....I have NEVER felt that deep seat before!
Then she had me hold the reins and bucking strap in one hand with the other hand free, and switch them off. Then she asked me to post a few steps...and I could actually do it!!

Thanks to my trainer and this board, I might actually be able to do well this show season!!

Thanks again to all of you!!


Member:
Aeowen

Posted on Monday, Feb 10, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

Hey Aileen - everyone here has had great advice - but I wanted to add one more thing (as someone who had this issue!)...

When they are speaking of flexing your elbows... you need to actively flex your elbows - almost like doing a little pushup/down. I know it sounds goofy - a lot of activity to keep the hands quiet, but it's exactly what you need to do in order for your hand to stay still while your body moves! If you're blessed/cursed with short arms (like me - short arms, long torso) you need to move them even more to stay in contact with the horses mouth and keep the hands still and soft.

Let me just tell you, I emphasize... I was so frustrated with instructors for years that were telling me to keep my hands still... I was locking my elbows and keeping my hands "still" but unfortunately that meant they bounced as I rose up and down in the posting trot!

-Bevin
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Feb 10, 2003 - 1:10 pm:

There is a thing called the arm stabilizer. here is the web site. I never tried it ,but it sounds like a great idea. Has anyone used this? Does it work?
Katrina
You might have to copy then paste in your browser
https://www.thearmstabilizer.com/ourstory.html
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Feb 10, 2003 - 1:56 pm:

Thank you Bevin! It's nice to know I'm not alone in my frustrations!! I was doing the exact thing as you were!

I am doing the push ups, now...my trainer also asked me to really take a hold of my horse while I'm learning to keep my hands still, so the bit doesn't jiggle around in his mouth due to MY instability. That has helped SO much! He's a much happier horse (;)

Katrina, actually my trainer has tied polo wraps around her advanced students' arms to keep them still and to their sides. And it does work.

I actually need to work on flexibility, I'm TOO stiff in my shoulders and elbows and wrists while trying to keep my hands still!

Thanks for the input!!
Member:
Nonie

Posted on Saturday, Feb 15, 2003 - 8:45 pm:

Well, in keeping with my untarnished reputation as The Gadget Girl, I have ordered and have now received the arm stabilizer, which looks like a nifty little device, and am eagerly waiting for the first opportunity to try it out (a test run in the kitchen seemed promising, but minus the horse. LOL). This will mean waiting for the first day when it isn't so BEASTLY cold here that I have to wear a thick down jacket on top of several sweaters and therefore cannot really fit the stabilizer over everything (see the website for clarification on fit). As it is, my arms are pretty well immobilized by extra clothing, but the effect is not one of finesse.

I'll report back the minute I get a chance to try it out. And I would like to publicly state here that I have no immediate plans to use the Arm Stabilizier AND the Unisit at the same time. I am enough of a laughingstock already.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Feb 17, 2003 - 8:44 am:

Let me know how the arm stabilizer works Katrina
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