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Discussion on Foal's following behaviour and leading
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, May 5, 2003 - 4:02 pm:
Dear all
Just a point of interest that I wasn't sure where to put. I was told that until mare and foal have been in the field loose together for a couple of days the foal doesn't develop its behaviour of following the mare properly and I found this to be true - foal was born Thursday, went out Sunday (weather was just too awful before then) but it took about a day and a half in the field before the foal really began to follow mum.
It seems to me it's very difficult to get leading working well until the follow behaviour is fully developed. What do those with more experience think? Also, do any members of the board have experience teaching foals to lead for showing that they could share (I gather the trick is to keep practising taking the foal a few steps in front of mum and bringing it back, gradually increasing the distance?)
Thanks
Imogen
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Member:
Karene
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Posted on Monday, May 5, 2003 - 6:21 pm:
Imogen,
I was teaching both my foals to lead within the first 2-3 days after foaling. I used a long cotten lead rope which I could run from the off side of the halter to the near side around the butt. At first I would ask the foal to lead and use a little pressure on the butt to get him/her moving/leading. It didn't take long for them to "figure it out" and lead without the butt rope!
You want to take care they can't get enough line that they can wrench their necks, etc. if they try to kick up their heels. Also, found it's best to let them exercise a bit/tire themselves out if they've been stalled before beginning a lesson.
Foals are such fun. Congratulations on yours!
KarenE
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, May 6, 2003 - 9:14 am:
Imogen,
I, also, was leading my baby soon after birth. But with mine, it was the day after. I imprint trained him, and he was very comfortable with me from the get go. Getting respect was another thing. He kind of thought of people as playthings until I got firm with him. That behavior kept resurfacing until he was about 3, so making sure they respect you early is important. I taught leading the same way Karen did.
Alicia
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 2:29 pm:
I think I must be doing something wrong. The foal leads fine in the box and also in and out of the field if you put your arm around its butt to encourage it forward when needed. If you try to use a butt strap instead of an arm, she bucks and kicks until she gets it off her butt - any advice?
She will also follow the mare in from the field loose but the problem is her "aim" at the stable door which has flowerbeds on either side is not good so she does need some guidance. Also I think its safer/better to lead her.
I don't understand the instructions several people have given about attaching a strap to the foal slip on the offside and then putting it around the butt as well - it seems to me if the foal gets at all uppity this leads to their head getting pulled down and also more likelihood of flipping over, which seems a bad thing.
Any further advice/pictures gratefully received and in the meantime I shall continue using my arm around its butt...
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 2:57 pm:
Hi, Imogen.
I guess my inclination is to not use a butt rope . . . . I'm not very good with ropes . . . am all thumbs :-)
What about if, as you are giving pressure with your arm on the foals back end, you include slight, steady pressure from a lead under his chin. As soon as you get a forward lean, release the pressure on both ends and praise him. Continue until you get a step . . . and release . . . . gradually reducing the arm pressure and just relying on the halter/lead pressure, always standing and facing the way you want to go . . . . and giving verbal forward cues to which you add the forward motion of your own body language? The foal's first inclination will be to pull back against the halter/lead pressure, which is why, if you have already done some leading work with your arm pressure on his back end, you should probably continue with it until the foal can make the mental switch to moving forward on your body language.
I have taught young horses to lead, but not foals . . . .
When using a leaDrOpe, I think the inclination of most folks is to PULL the foal along, which only creates a foal that pulls back. If the foal DOES decide to pull back, just go with him keeping steady pressure on the lead to maintain the same degree of pressure with which you asked him to lean forward . . . and talk confidently and soothingly to him. And when he stops pulling back, ask again . . . and keep on asking the same way over and over until he gives you some kind of forward motion with his ears, nose or a leaning forward in his body. Any amount of coming TOWARD pressure should be rewarded. Hope this makes sense.
Holly
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 4:36 pm:
if you are not comfortable with the butt rope, your foal is young enough to teach one small step at a time.. it may take several days/ maybe a week or more... just get the foal to move a leg and reward heavy...like a zig zag movement... pull your foal to one side, one leg has to move.. reward...pull your foal the opposite side, reward...soon the foal will figure out that when i move my legs i get huge loves... it won't be long and you will have a foal moving with you.. don't forget the huge rewards/loves..
remember to reward the slightest movement... also the lessons are not long.. they have short attention spans.. and you want the foal to be happy not cranky with you..
Ann
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Member:
Sspete
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 6:29 pm:
When teaching my foals to lead, I have used the butt strap 'method' but before that I have let them walk around (in the pasture) with an old halter and long, old lead rope on. They learn to stop and make the appropiate changes. The pull on the lead is what they aren't really used to and somehow they learn to sucome to the pressure. It makes it easier to lead them forward too. Maybe you could try this????
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 6:53 pm:
Sheri, aren't you worried about the mare stepping on the lead rope and causing an accident..?? that would be my worry with two in a pen together...
Ann
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 8:17 pm:
Hello Imogen,
I think it is important to work through the butt rope. This is what raising babies is about: geting them over some of their natural reactions to pressure and touch. Do you want a horse that bucks and kicks when he feels pressure exerted on his butt? On the other hand I do not think this requires correction: just patience. He will not do that forever and you just need to wait until he quits then start again.
DrO
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Member:
Sspete
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Posted on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 9:10 pm:
even if the mare steps on the rope, the foal will learn what the pressure is and how NOT to reack to it. Does the mare lead well? and the foal is how old? I have heard that some people who have problem foals tie them TO the mare and lead her... that way, they say, you both teach the foal.
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 8:07 am:
Dr O - I agree but...
I just don't know how to stop the butt rope coming off! So I suppose I should just keep at it putting it back on each time?
(Also it has mild foal heat diarrhea - I was worried that it was just that it had a sore bottom anyway so didn't want to press it without finding out whether I was doing the right thing).
It is quite an amenable thing and is happy to have legs touched and picked up etc. It does occasionally kick out in the stable but I feel it is too young for serious correction yet - it is just reacting to things it doesn't yet understand.
Sheri - the mare leads beautifully and has lovely manners in the stable and is generally not too bothered about humans doing things with the foal as long as she can see what's happening.
We go out to the field very well with just a hand behind the foal's butt. Coming back is more of a problem because the foal is a bit all over the place so it's more like an arm behind and even another arm around the chest. It is not really a bold foal, it just doesn't like the butt rope.
It does depend a bit on who I have to help me with the mare as some people pick up on the need to keep pace with the foal and to keep the mare so she can feel/see it while others are nervous and tend to let her circle which doesn't help.
Thanks for the advice - keep it coming!
Imogen
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Member:
Karene
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 8:33 am:
Imogen,
It does take a bit of coordination with the butt rope especially as you only want pressure when you are encouraging him to go forward. Also, I have one hand on the halter and use that pressure as the go forward cue and apply the butt pressure if needed.
Can you get someone to help you? That person could hold the lead and apply pressure when you ask so that you can focus on the head?
With our foal last fall, we would have grain waiting for the mare when we brought them in and then would keep the foal out with us for a few minutes (then longer) to socialize her, give her some mini-lessons and get her used to separation from her dam. It's a good time to work with them as they've gotten any pent up energy out. Mom didn't get anxious as she could see her baby and had her grain.
Keep us posted on how it's going.
Karen
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 11:06 am:
Imogen, I've been going through exactly this same process, since I have my first (and a surprise at that!) foal.
Really, it's just baby steps (groan. pun intended) I didn't realize how incremental I needed to be with my foal. I can do anything with my hands, but every new halter, rope, tool needed to be introduced. With ropes, I started just looping it over my arm while doing chores, just so it was present. Then I gathered it up and rubbed her with it, after she was quiet, letting the ends get looser so they dangled around. And just a minute or two a day was enough -- she remembers. Get a long enough rope, or a polo wrap, and do a figure 8 around the baby, holding the middle up about the withers. Only use the butt pressure if baby pulls against the halter.
And start leading with just a step to the side, working toward small circles. The circles get gradually larger, until you can lead in a straight line.
My apologies if this is all familiar, but it's what I had to figure out for us.
Jerre
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Member:
Tagloili
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 7:37 pm:
Imogen,
When I start weanlings with a halter, I use a 12 foot lead rope. I bring the lead rope along the right side of the weanling across the butt and up to the attached end of the lead rope. With my right hand where the two join, we begin our walk.
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Member:
Thomboy
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Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 8:00 pm:
Imogen, I have always used a butt rope but have had my daughter available to help keep everything pretty steady; however, this year, I found something new and I absolutely LOVE it. My first stud colt of the season was born with a ruptured bladder, so his first 12 days of life were spent in the hospital healing from 2 surgeries. When we got him home, we obviously had to teach him to halter and lead, but had to be careful of herniation into the healing incision. My husband found "The Baby Trainer" and after I finished laughing at just how ludicrous the idea was, I took a serious look at it. Because of the way it works, it discourages and even prevents the baby from pulling back or rearing, thus eliminating a lot of the danger of herniation. I did the unthinkable...I bought the silly thing and it has been the best $40.00 I have spent (aside from the astronomical amount for his surgery) this foaling season. After 2-10 minute sessions, he was leading like he had been doing it all his life without even a thought of pulling back or rearing up.
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 3:17 am:
What is the baby trainer? I'm intrigued...
Imogen
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 7:48 am:
Hi, Imogen,
I hadn't ever heard of it either, but got a catalog yesterday from which it can be ordered. Go to www.stagecoachwest.com It is called "Baby Trainer" and is made by Ringer Products. The order # is 20-13581 and it lists for $39.99. Very interesting.
Holly
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Member:
Thomboy
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 10:56 am:
It is absolutely the greatest thing since peanut butter for a difficult foal or for those times when you are just not feeling coordinated enough to "hold everything in place," and it saved my guy from possible herniation and me from EXTREME worry. I would gladly be a spokesperson for this thing!!!
My colt was so "stand-offish" at first (I believe becasue of the "negative" handling he received his first days of life) but yesterday at a fundraiser for the military, people were coming up and loving on him and when they would stop, he would walk closer to them and try and nudge them for more. I believe the "positive" interaction is responsible for this almost immediate change in attitude!
Good luck to you!!!!
Melissa
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Member:
Tagloili
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 11:07 am:
The only place I've been able to find the weanling and yearling trainer is at:
https://www.americanlivestock.com/product_0_1859.mhtml
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 2:53 am:
The picture's easier to understand on Stagecoach because it's bigger. I was surprised that the back strap seems to hang so loose - is that how normal butt straps are used? The pictures I have of leading foals in my stable management books show the strap higher up just beneath the tail, and not loose (not very tight, but firm).
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Tagloili
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Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 3:56 pm:
I used the Baby Trainer on our week old weanling. Worked great and best of all, kept her from rearing up. Teaches to lead real quick.
www.ringerproducts.com
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 5:22 am:
Thanks to all of you who gave advice in this thread - here is my foal at one month and one day at her first show. I'm afraid to say we came 2nd out of 2 in the class but it was great experience for the foal who didn't bat an eyelid at anything including small children running around in red plastic rain capes firing luminous water pistols!
Imogen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 3:32 pm:
Beautiful, just beautiful.
DrO
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