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  Discussion on Barrel Horse that Bucks
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Member:
Conniep

Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 4:53 pm:

My husband bought a barrel racing horse to use as a trail horse. The problem is this, when you put that saddle on, he is going to buck. Sometimes he'll buck with you on, sometimes just the saddle. There have been a few times that my husband mounted and sat there, waiting on the buck. He said you could tell the horse was thinking about bucking, but wouldn't do it. The horse has got to be one of the best trained horses we have ever owned. My husband loves him, except for the bucking.
Have checked saddle, have ridden with a different saddle, have ridden with a lighter weight rider, still bucks. The bucking doesn't last long, 1 or 2 minutes. He will do it on a lunge, if the saddle is on him. If lungeing with saddle, perfect horse.
Any suggestions? We really don't want to start bronc riding. Too old.
Thanks, Connie
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 6:34 pm:

Oh, Connie, this is a tough one. First let me understand the last part of your post . . . . you said, "He will do it on a lunge, if the saddle is on him. If lungeing with saddle, perfect horse." Did you mean if longeing withOUT the saddle, perfect horse?

I have found that if a horse is going to buck, you can sometimes tell just before it comes . . . his body tenses up, or he shakes his head . . . . if you have any suspicions that the horse is thinking of bucking, then I would slide my hand down one rein and hold his head around to my knee and urge him into a few tight circles . . . and then send him straight out and walk him on . . . and if you have another suspicion, do the same thing to the other direction. I know that a horse that is determined to lose his rider can do amazing things with his body even if he is put into a donut shape, but most horses opt out because it's just too much work . . . .

The saddle/girth issue might need more exploration . . . . massage, different pad . . . . horses can get really sour about riding if they have been forced to repeat things over and over and over and over . . . . and he may just be sour . . . . or he may hurt . . . .

Trail riding is so great . . . . and it could be that as your horse is allowed to relax on the trail he will stop being so resentful of a rider or a saddle . . . .

Do you have contact with the previous owner . . . or know if the bucking was a regular problem or for how long this horse has displayed this behavior?
Holly
Member:
Conniep

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 8:27 am:

Sorry, works fine on the lunge "without" the saddle. You can feel him tensing when he is going to buck. So, we'll start him in a circle as soon as he tenses.
He came with a video. He didn't buck on the video, but he was very tense and the woman riding him was extremely nervous. I'll get hubby to try the circle next time he rides.
Thanks,
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 8:39 am:

Coming in late on the discussion, but think I have to say this: In more than 30 years as a professional trainer, I have never seen a horse that bucked without reason. The reason ALWAYS being pain. I now have a hobby on the side: Rehabilitating sporthorses that are destined for the killer (or euthanasia). One of them for bucking. Since I got his feet trimmed correctly and gave him time to heal, he doesn't buck anymore, his face got softer, he enjoys human company and his work. Often we get sucked into the thinking that horses do this to get rid of us and out of spite. It boils down to pain: The muscle under the cinch may be tight (happens also when the feet hurt), the saddle may not fit him (get a third opinion, sometimes it takes getting to a treeless saddle), the bit may hurt, the rider even may pinch him. I employ a chiropractor, a massage therapist, all the horses in my care are barefoot and I trim them to a strict protocol. Investigate where he hurts - for the love of the horse.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 10:54 am:

Claudia,

That is excellent. I'm especially interested in the hoof trimming part . . . . Are you saying that when the feet hurt, the horse tenses up under the belly and that the tightness of the girth is an extra aggravation?

Holly
Member:
Conniep

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 11:29 am:

Claudia,
To add to this, when we put the horse in a roundpen for the first time, he went absolutely crazy.
We had the saddle on him and he bucked for a good 10 minutes. We took it off, but left him in the pen. He paced that pen for 2 hours. He finally realized that nothing was going to happen to him and he can now go in the pen without being trumatized. I really think somewhere in his career as a barrell racer, he has been abused. If my husband could get up the nerve, he would try riding bare back. But he is too old to get bucked off. Maybe we can find a bronc rider to try him. We have had his feet trimmed, in fact, right now he is a little lame and I am researching why. But he bucked before the lameness started.
I am still working with him and haven't given up hope. Any suggestions are welcome. By the way, he bucks if you put just a simple bareback pad on him, not even cinched tight.
Claudia, you wouldn't happen to be in Georgia, would you?
Connie
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

Holly,
Yes that is what I am saying.
Connie,
No, we do not live in Georgia. But how about South Carolina? Close enough. You actually find a lot of information on our webpage under "Hoofcare" and we have a big trim clinic coming up in August. Website: https://www.horrellhilldressage.com
Bucking a horse out is not the answer. Horses have the ability to "leave their body behind", which means at some time they just give up and step out mentally. That is not what you want from a horse. At least I don't think that is what you want. You want the horse to tell you when something is wrong. And he is telling you. It is up to you to find out what it is.
Let me know if I can help.
Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 2:26 pm:

My comment probably has nothing to do with your horse’s bucking problem, but thought I’d share anyway. An old riding buddy once had a saddle horse that would buck 1 or 2 minutes every time anyone would mount him. On the trail he did fine until you remounted. Then bucking again. My friend had our farrier/trainer work with him awhile. The farrier had a name for this condition (bucking when mounted) I cant remember what he called it. Has anyone ever heard of that before? If I remember correctly this horse also sometimes “faked” limping on trail rides. My friend took him to the vet had him checked and x-rayed. The vet never found anything wrong with his leg and the trainer never got him to stop bucking although he got a little better about it. My friend traded the horse so I don’t know if it was some undiagnosed problem causing him pain or learned behavior to get out of long trail rides.

Also I know a girl who has a barrel horse and has done some competing. Her horse is very calm and gentle. She once commented that other barrel racers couldn’t believe she could sit on her horse in the chute. She said most of the horses were so nervous and jumpy in the chute that the young girls couldn’t sit on them without the horse trying to buck them off, so they had to have someone literally throw them on the horse as it ran out of the chute.

I know this doesn’t help. I have no useful knowledge on the subject, just random thoughts.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 4:39 pm:

does he buck all the time? or just the first few minutes of work..?

i have a gal friend that has a mare that she claims is 'cold' backed, so the mare will buck ALWAYS for the a few minutes of being riden or lunged, she then warms out it...

there has been nothing she could do to change this behavior.... a dressage horse, not barrels..

just my 2 cents..

Ann
Member:
Conniep

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 4:45 pm:

He bucks 99% of the time. Ever now and then, my husband can mount him and they can go off with no bucking. But he always tenses up like he wants to buck. I think it is past abuse. Something that will get better with time and patience. At least we are trying.
I would call a horse chiropactor, but I'm afraid the closest one is Atlanta.
Connie
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 5:25 pm:

Connie,
Horses don't fake limping either. What you see is what you get. Behavior like that is a sign of dicomfort or pain. Where does one start and the other end? Please e-mail me privately with your address and I try to help you or point you in the right direction. hhdressage@sc.rr.com or call me, you'll find the number on my webpage.
Member:
Jimhug

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:13 pm:

Claudia- are you saying that a horse isn't capable of learning a behavior such as limpoing or bucking when doing this behavior gets them the desired response such as not being ridden? I've seen dogs fake limping and I have a mare that until an injury was the smoothest riding horse I've ever been on, but she would always buck a little when you first got on. This may last 30 seconds or slightly longer. After that you could ride her for hours and never have another incident. We always told people that she was testing you to see if you were worthy of riding her. I believe that the bucking could be something the horse has learned and continues to try it. If the bucking is the result of discomfort or pain, then why does it stop bucking after a minute or 2.
Member:
Tagloili

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 6:38 pm:

Monty Roberts sells a product called "Buck Stopper". Although it is not listed on his site, you can probably email or call. I don't know of anyone else who sells such a thing, but it works.
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 7:39 pm:

James - yes, that is exactly what I am saying. A horse that is properly trained actually seems to enjoy being ridden, my horses all do. And believe me, they have to work. They don't mind a bit. I am not sure about the exact chemical ongoings, but when a horse bucks and "doesn't get away with it", he usually stops unless the underlying pain is severe. As I said before, bucking stems from discomfort to pain, for every individual the threshold is different. I have in the past worked plenty of horses whom I actually could prevent to buck at all by being extremely alert and stopping the undesired action before it started to become elevated. But that is not what we are discussing here. Bucking does have an underlying cause and I think it a) unsafe and b) inhumane not to try to find that underlying cause.
George - I believe I have seen Monty Roberts "Buck Stopper". Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a type of overcheck that puts pressure on the lip when the horse tries to lower his head, therefore inflicting pain and preventing the undesired behavior? That may correct the problem, but doesn't solve the underlying cause either. Unless your aim is plainly to produce a rideable animal, no matter what. Sounds to me like a training method that belongs in the old ages where we used horses in the truest sense as animals of burden.
Member:
Jimhug

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 9:11 pm:

Claudia- I agree that there is a cause for the bucking but I wouldn't say that it is due to pain or discomfort. It could also be that the bucking behavior was positively reinforced in the horse by previous riders giving up. It may be that the previous riders simply quit riding and the horse learned that this behavior meant he didn't have to work. I have a problem with the pain or discomfort theory because the behavior (bucking) goes away after a couple of minutes. I also believe that horses, given the choice would prefer to be in pasture over being worked but a well trained horse will do what we ask of them.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 10:08 pm:

I have seen horses that bucked without evidence of pain. These cases were in spite of intensive efforts to find a source of pain and tack problem, prolonged rest (6 to 12 months), anti-inflammatory therapy, chiropractic care, and acupuncture. Several were sold and lost to follow one ended up in a riders hand who could ride it out: and the bucking stopped.

Whenever chirpractic is mentioned I must put in our standard declaimer: The problem with equine chiropractic medicine is that it is not founded in any research of their diagnostic or therapeutic methods. Based loosely on human chiropractic techniques, the lack of ability to radiograph the spine (a cornerstone diagnostic requirement in human chiropractic medicine), the significant difference in anatomy, and the use of nonspecfic owner complaints and untested diagnostic and therapeutic techniques makes this more of an "art" than a science.

There is no doubt you could train a horse to limp James, but I never seen it happen spontaneously. On the other hand I have seen horses that limped for years that stopped instantly when the painful area is blocked.
DrO
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Friday, May 9, 2003 - 10:15 pm:

James- you are right, a well trained horse will do what we ask of him - because he understands the requirements, he has been trained. Now isn't there a big difference between training and breaking? Isn't bucking a horse out considered "breaking", like in breaking an undesirable habit? Training on the other hand (in my humble opinion) requires a rider (or ground handler) who has control over his own emotions and physical abilities and utilizes the same to make the prey animal understand desirable behavior. Reward is the main factor, not punishment.
Member:
Jimhug

Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 12:25 am:

Claudia- I understand the distinction you're making between training and breaking. If this is a case where the horse has had positive reinforcement (in the horse's mind), then I think the initial training was lacking. He was allowed to buck and was rewarded. The only option at this point may be to break him of this. If the reinforcement is removed, would he not learn that bucking no longer works? I don't think I would do this from the saddle but would first try to do it in a roundpen with a saddle on. If his bucking ceases, I would then try it mounted. It may be as Connie says- he was abused at some point also. Then, I believe they just need to earn his trust. I think we do agree that bucking is not a behavior we want in our horses.
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 2:39 am:

Just a comment about horses never limping without a reason. I've known three who definitely put it on. Two I think it was a "bridle lameness" caused by their riders having rather insensitive hands. The third did it going away from familiar circumstances and was just plain bold and when not allowed get away with it would give up after about 10 minutes. It depended on who was riding him.

So although the first step must always be checking for pain, I do not think it is true that there is always a physical cause. Horses are smart (but fortunately, usually not smart enough!)

Imogen
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 9:00 am:

James-We agree that bucking is not a behavior we want in our horses. But let's come back to the original problem: Nobody knows why the horse is bucking and unless one who is very experienced with horses and all aspects of horsemanship gets to see this horse, this problem will just be kicked around theoretical, and in my humble opinion that becomes a waste of time. We all agree that horses should not buck. We somehow cannot agree why the buck.

Imogen - "bridle lameness" is a condition where the horse pushes with the tongue against the bit (because the rider has "bad hands")and therefore blocks muscles in his front legs that are directly connected to the back of his tongue. In your third case something just occurred to me: Many of us expect from a horse to carry whichever rider with grace and humbleness, while many riders never make the slightest effort to become better riders. How about we stop searching every horse for having behavior problems and mistakes and invest more time into becoming better riders. I come from a different equestrian background. I was tought thoroughly that it is always the riders fault. For the first 20 years I didn't believe it. I made a fair living out of training horses. Then the lightbulb went on and I realized something that seemed all of a sudden new to me: It is always the riders fault. Otherwise it just wouldn't happen that I even get horses in training. They don't "misbehave" with me the way they are "misbehaving" with their owners. May it be because I have better bodycontrol, because I don't have to clamp to keep my balance or I can operate my hands independent from my seat. Maybe I have learned (it will be close to 40 years and it is a continous learning process)to breathe when the going gets tough. You'll be surprised what a calming effect that has on horses. It's a gorgeous day here in South Carolina, let's go out and do some good for our equine friends.
Member:
Nofences

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 4:08 pm:

Hi All,

This thread, and especially the dialogue between Claudia & James, has hit a very sensitive nerve. I have a nearly 15 yo Morgan X that I have raised from birth, and I know without a doubt that his bucking while being mounted is learned, selective and timed perfectly to unseat even highly experienced, certified trainers. My horses have 24/7 access to 13 acres of pasture and are asked to do very little work. The first time my Morgan got me off was when he was a very green 4 yr old, and I believe I did poke him slightly with the toe of my (english) boot as I got on. I was alone and hurt badly enough so that I couldn't get right back on him - he learned that day that getting someone off meant getting out of 'school'.

Now I don't have time to tell about each and every time he's bucked someone off, but the bottom line is I've had him vet checked, massaged, accupressured, hired a number of very good, very kind, very talented trainers, and with certain people (me included) he will start to buck as soon as your right leg is in the air over his back - and he *will* get you off. He also knows the difference when you try to fake him out and only start to put your leg over, but you're still in a position to step back down and get after him if he tries anything. He did this with certain people on his own property, and only once while off the farm - that rider was not hurt, she was able to get back on, and he never tried to buck her off again.

I was as certain as you Claudia that pain had to be the root of his behavior, so I was at *every* training session with *every* trainer and I can guarantee that he was never abused, his trainers were all women who weighed less than 140 pounds, his feet are like iron, he goes barefoot and has had the same (excellent) farrier his whole life. He wouldn't buck the 'chosen few' off every time we tried to get on, but more than half the time he would.

Now the interesting part is that the summer before last I was at my wits end because the last time he'd bucked me off I broke my back, so I sent him to a young woman in a neighboring state, and while she called herself a trainer she wasn't certified - and after seeing her ride I can say she was only an average rider. But guess what? My (now 13 yo) horse never even offered to buck. This young woman was comparable in size and weight to other trainers I'd hired, but she had an adult student who was obese that she allowed to ride my horse - and he never bucked her off either. While he was there he was taken on day long trail rides in 90 degree heat that started out going down the main street of town and out into the woods trails. She never had his feet trimmed, she didn't feed him correctly and he lost so much weight my vet & I were horrified. He was low man in the herd which she kept in a very small paddock, so he had a lot of bite marks, and I'm sure he was in pain - but he *never* bucked.

Now if pain is the cause of all bucking I guess my gelding got it backwards.

Barbara
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 4:53 pm:

Most of the time horses buck because of pain. However a few smart ones will learn bad habbits, such as pretend spooking or bucking. About 35 years ago my sisters pony accidently knocked her off with a branch by walking under a tree. He never got her off again, but he tried to every now and again. When on a nice loose reined trail ride he would duck under a low branched tree. He never forgot the one time he got her off. He was a cheeky pony and we loved him. It was his personality. He also won many shows and gymkanas. He was like a kid . Some horses just want to test you every now and again
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 6:50 pm:

Exceptions to the rule? I would have thought so a few years ago. Even better, I did make the horses submissive, if need be with a drawrein, extensive longeing and exhaustive riding. Most gave in. I got a reputation for being able to ride difficult horses and "fix" them. All of a sudden I had a bunch of problem horses in training. So I had more to "fix". I didn't know then what I know now. And if you all don't want to get the point, so be it. I stick to what I know. Horses buck because of pain. I know now something else: Most pain starts in the hoof. Usually man made. Often produced by well-trained well-meaning specialists.
Claudia Garner
Bereiter FN (German licensed trainer and instructor)
Judge FN (German licensed judge for all sporthorse disciplines)
Veterinarian Technician (trained by the long time veterinarian to the German Olympic Dressage Team)
Advocate for a better world for performance horses
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 7:11 pm:

Hi claudia,
I would love an imput as you have so much experience. My horse has his feet trimmed once a month he has never been shod and I have been told he has perfect feet. He is a 6 year old pure bred arabian. He is ridden in a snaffle or a bitless bridle(DR Cook) and his saddle is a cair wintec that is checked every 2 months for gullet fit. He is in perfect condition. What would cause him to want to buck.and only in spring. He doesnt get the chance though. He gets looked after better than my husband. I grew up on a horse stud and have to admit he is the first that wants to do this. I have ridden stallions etc, They never tried. What do think is the cause when everything looks perfect? Thank you for input Katrina
Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 9:40 pm:

Dear Katrina,
The bitless bridle is definitely a good choice. I have some issues with the Wintec Cair (even so I had suggested its use in the past). It still has a tree and when you step in the stirrups, the points of the tree may dig into his shoulders (back). Also, I find the Cair often to hard, I am not sure if you can let some air out. You may want to investigate this site (has changed a lot for my horses): www.ansursaddle.com
My biggest pet peeve in your post is: "I have been told he has perfect feet". I followed the advice of my farrier for all of my professional career till 2 years ago. I even had an attitude about it: "That's his job, he is the professional, I have to be able to trust him". Mind you, I never had a lame horse. Then I read the books of Dr. Hiltrud Strasser (available at https://www.thehorseshoof.com) and I became deeply unsettled. In the process I changed my entire training barn operation, not only to barefoot, but to a certain understanding of the real workings of the hoof. As I couldn't find a farrier to follow Dr. Strasser's protocol, I learned to trim myself (it's not rocket science, if you care to apply yourself). Go ahead and read the story on my website (https://www.horrellhilldressage.com) under "Hoof Care". You may start thinking about what you have been told a little differently.
Best regards,
Claudia
Member:
Jimhug

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:56 pm:

Claudia- What point is it that we don't want to get to? If it is that we don't agree with you that all horses that buck do so because of pain or discomfort, then I will never get to the point. In my opinion, that statement is like making the statement that all lung cancer is caused by smoking. While, I would concede that most bucking cases probably are the result of discomfort or pain, I will not concede that all are. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Member:
Alden

Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:45 pm:

If horses only buck as result of pain, the same must be true of farting; cause there is a lot of both going on when I turn my gaggle out together! :-)

I would agree my horses' biggest problem is me, but life is tough and all is well at the end of the day; as long as I feed on time that is.

The problem with "always" and "never" is in my experience the statement is always, never true. ;)

Member:
Hhdressa

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 7:04 am:

James - the point is exactly that we don't agree.
What I tried to tell you (and I try again): I thought the same way you think. That there are horses who have learned to buck, primarily because they got away with it so often. And I didn't see anything wrong with correcting this problem by making them behave. I worked them hard and was in total agreement with Alden - life is tough and all is well at the end of the day.
Then I read Dr. Strasser's books and things changed. A whole lot of incidents of bucking horses come to mind now, where I have to say "if I knew then what I know now, I could have avoided unnecessary harshness and pain", and get better results.
It's an old horseman's truth that I didn't understand for most of my life: It is always the rider who is wrong, never the horse, never. Too bad I didn't listen to that earlier.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 8:08 am:

Claudia I checked out your site and the Dr Strassers site. I have always beleived in barefoot I would never dream of putting shoes on my horse. I agree with the natural approach. I dont need convincing by reading his book as I have always beleived in those ideas. There are no farriers in my area trained the Dr Straussers way. I have never thought on trimming myself, but would be happy to if I cant find a farrier . Where can I get guides to show my farrier, and how different is it to a regular barefoot trim? I am willing to keep learning anything that will improve my horse s health and happiness.
As for the saddle I went thru about 10 saddles before I chose the wintec. I have heard a lot of bad reveiws about the tree less saddles ,rubbing ,hairloss, apparent pain. I dont know if its true , but out of all the research I did I stuck with the cair. I will think about getting some air let out .
regards Katrina
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 9:40 am:

I'm sure a sore horse will look for ways to remove the cause of the pain, and bucking may be one way, and the horse will learn to repeat whatever works. I sure think a horse that bucks the moment he's saddled either has some pain, or had pain that way in the past. But I don't think every buck is an indication of pain.

When I turn my mare out, she often canters off, changing leads several times (2-tempis!), throws a few good bucks, maybe rears and bucks again, and then dives for her roll spot, gets up and shakes, throws another buck and snorts, and then looks for her hay and starts munching. I'd say she's feeling pretty good!

She also bucks over the fence at one of the geldings occasionally, and that's not about pain either, other than her thinking the gelding is being a pain in the neck making faces at her.

My old gelding used to buck off all new riders. But if they got back on, he'd let them stay -- it was only their first mounting. He otherwise NEVER has bucked under saddle. Maybe related to some past pain, but not to any current pain. He's stopped doing this as he's gotten older and mellower.

My friend's horse bucks sometimes when she asks him to go forward to approach/pass an unusual looking object that has appeared overnight in the park where we ride. Those bucks say "Noooo! I don't want to go there!", I don't think they're any indication of pain.

Melissa
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 10:51 am:

Sorry Claudia, I also totally disagree with your statement. If a horse under saddle only bucks because of pain, then what about a horse that bucks in his pasture? Could it not be the same reason, simply to expend extra energy? We have a mare that bucks only in the spring, until she has about 4 or 5 rides on her, only when breaking into a canter, and she only throws one buck per episode, and then it's over, for the rest of the summer. We have chalked it up to excess spring energy. I know dozens of horse that never buck, except in the spring. Is it not logical to assume that this type of bucking is similar to when kids are let out at recess?

I also agree with Melissa that without a doubt, some horses will buck when you ask them to go somewhere that they just don't want to go.

Member:
Lilo

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 2:02 pm:

Hi Claudia,
I have to agree with Melissa - my horses behave much the same way when they are turned out. Run in circles (they don't know two-tempi), buck and kick for the pure joy of it. Often after they roll, they come up and put in a few bucks before settling down to grazing.
That said - I would always look for sources of pain if bucking becomes a chronic problem. However - I have had my Mare for 10 years. She has been barefoot for about 8 years and is trimmed regularly by an experienced farrier. I have to admit - she bucks occasionally. What sets her off: seeing other horses playing free in the pasture while we are riding by, or not being allowed to go as fast as she wants to (for instance, when she tries to catch up to other horses). She has never gotten me off - and gives it up quite quickly - but, obviously, I have to be prepared. Is it my fault - probably. Is she in pain - I don't think so, or it would be a chronic problem. It is definitely related to "spring fever", or some outside stimulus. When this horse is ridden regularly, she forgets all about the bucking.
Lilo
Member:
Terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 4:39 pm:

Ditto on Lilo's post. I have a wonderful trail horse that does throw the occasional buck...and always when trying to catch up with others on a trail and she feels left behind, or scrambling up hills just for the heck of it. Also when she feels miffed that I've asked her to do more than she feels like...she has never unseated me, but she has bucked my daughter off several times. Regular riding and a firm attitude on the rider's part takes care of it. This girl is in no pain. She just thinks she's in charge...
Member:
Terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 4:41 pm:

Ditto on Lilo's post. I have a wonderful trail horse that does throw the occasional buck...and always when trying to catch up with others on a trail and she feels left behind, or scrambling up hills just for the heck of it. Also when she feels miffed that I've asked her to do more than she feels like...she has never unseated me, but she has bucked my daughter off several times. Regular riding and a firm attitude on the rider's part takes care of it. This girl is in no pain-- she just thinks she's in charge...
Member:
Leilani

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 4:59 pm:

I am so glad to read that this behavior is not as uncommon as I thought. My mare, Mele also bucks if she feels she is being left behind on the trail; usually when we are with riders that just take off with no warning or riding manners, and when she has not been ridden lately (my fault). I have a good seat - so far.
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 5:14 pm:

Hi Leilani,

As common a behavior it may be, remember it is still unacceptable behavior. Even just one unexpected or unanticipated buck can put you in a wheelchair - a woman I know is in a wheelchair now because of a 'spring fever' buck. A real good reason to wear a helmut, especially in spring. I should practice what I preach however, as I don't wear one.

Even our sweet well mannered mare that throws an odd 'spring fever' buck knows immediately that it is not EVER acceptable to buck and the behavior is checked immediately.

Good luck and remember - SAFETY FIRST
Member:
Terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 5:27 pm:

At the risk of sounding really silly--what is the best way to reprimand when this happens? On a trail I usually give her a resounding pop on the neck and tell her NO. Somehow, I don't think I'm getting through to her....and she has actually run away with me once when riders in front took off with no warning...and when this happens she is very reckless in her pursuit...just wondering what is the best way to discourage the behavior. Sometimes on narrow trails it is not an option to turn her in tight circles as there is nowhere to do this...and I don't wear a helmet either and SHOULD....
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 6:20 pm:

Terri,

We can usually anticipate an imminent buck and by raising her head, making bucking difficult, we can usually have her attention back on us and can avert the behavior. If you can anticipate it, and usually you can, coupled with a forceful "NO"!...it will allow you a very short window of opportunity to deal with what might be coming next, and give you time to get her mind on something else. We sometimes will get her backing up and maybe rein her in a couple circles. Getting her mind on doing something else, and definitely a raised voice helps. She definitely knows what NO means, and...say it like you mean it.

A horse can anticipate nervousness also, so if you're away from the group of horses, or in a situation where you are nervous, the horse will pick up on your tension, making him very nervous which might cause a buck, out of fear.

This may sound ridiculous, but my gelding was a little barn sour a couple years ago and didn't want to leave the other horses. I could feel lots of tension in him as we rode away from the farm, and I tried my darndest to relax, hum a tune, talk to him, laugh out loud and basically ignore both our fears. He seemed to relax and we rode away without a problem. As soon as he would realize he was alone again, and if I wasn't talking at the time, he'd get tense again. I'd start whistling, singing, relax my seat, and it really seemed to have a calming effect on him.

John Lyons also has a good 'calm down' cue whereby you lower the horses head causing him to relax. It works too. If you want I can email it to you.
Member:
Trouble

Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 2:51 pm:

When I first purchased my gelding a couple years ago, I hadn't ridden in over 15 years. As I was working him, he became a little unresponsive to my move forward cue(trying to test me). At some point I lightly tapped him on the shoulder with the end of the reins, making a little "slap" noise to get his attention.

To my surprise, he lowered his head, arched his back and let out a little buck! Not enough to unseat me fortunately (cause it wouldn't have taken much!). I continued my workout with no further problems (no rein slapping either!)

I have since "tested" him on several occasions with the same result. He has never once bucked with a rider for any reason other than that. He just simply gets ticked off when he hears that slapping noise.

Also, he is a maniacal rodeo horse in the pasture. My retired neighbors tell me they get a kick out of watching my horse and pony in the pasture all day because of the funny things they do!
Member:
Sspete

Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 7:03 pm:

WOW, a lot of discussion on this subject.... can I ask for some clarafication tho? It has been my experience that there are several types of "bucking" in most horses. One should be able to classify them. Such as the irritable buck, the discusted buck, the 'learning' to buck, the habit buck, and so on... I have ridden horses most of my life, they are as different as people and a lot of times, it has been my understanding that people do not 'get to know' their horses or their people for that matter. One can not 'assume' anything about other humans or more specifically their horses (especially when they havent spent the time to get to know them). Now, I'm not saying everyone needs to 'get in touch'with their feelings/horses, but perhaps a little more time spent observing the horses while at rest, working, haltered and while mounted (even by another person) may be in order. Learn their 'language', as it were.... Good luck and lots of patience may prevail. Barrel horses and in general 'speed' horses form habits out of necessity, that was how they were trained, maybe some more 'slow' time with your horse will help???
Member:
Nofences

Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:02 am:

You are absolutely right Sheri. Horses are complex creatures and it does them a disservice to believe that they do not experience a wide variety of 'emotions' and that they all process 'information' in exactly the same way. Common (horse) sense tells us that individual horses respond to fear, pleasure, stress, pain, etc., with a variety of behaviors, and that conversly a specific behavior such as bucking, pawing, rearing, etc. is not the result of exactly the same cause in all horses.
Member:
Sspete

Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 2:16 am:

Thank you, Barbara
Member:
Roboski

Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 8:36 am:

I thought about this thread Saturday when my eleven year old's new gelding acted up a bit at a hunter pace meet.The horse is just three and exceptionally well behaved for a youngster, but twice now ( the first time at his first horse show) he's done some bucking. Never at home,or on trails, or under saddle in the paddock - just when he's excited and confused around bunches of new horses in a strange place.
Pain? Nope! Naughty behavior? I'm convinced.
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