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  Discussion on Advice on calming extremely nervous horse on trails
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Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 9:30 am:

Hi, This is my horses second year under saddle and he is wonderful. He is a very nervy horse. He goes out on trails with other horses and he is fine. However I am not always able to have a buddy come along. We have been going out slowly a little further away from the barn, come back and go again over and over, which works . My problem is now we are going out further he is so scared he shakes, snorts and is like a bomb ready to go off. Each step he takes is so shaky like he wants to bolt but even that is scary. He doesnt know wether to back up spin ,run. He knows he is not allowed so feels trapped. He DrOps his head wonderfully normally ,but this fear is so intense. He has trouble consentrating. I take him out on walks,(leading) up in the woods,he still is very scared however he feels safer because he can see me. Any advice I have been doing everything I know. Thank you
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 11:57 am:

One thing I remember doing (but involves another rider) is to go out on the trails and have your horse lead for a bit. Then have the other horse lead for a bit. And during the ride have the other rider disappear out of earshot. and then come back. Helping him think he really isn't always alone out there.

I think this a natural response to new and frightening things, just try not to let him get so worked up that you turn around and go home. Then you are just confirming his suspicions.. What about just standing there till he quiets. and go a bit further, then turn and go home.

I never tried this but what if you went out earlier alone and placed treats along the way. I wonder if he starts to realize there might be a prize at the next leg of the journey he would be more willing to go out and stay out. i wouldn't usually treat while riding but it might work even if you treat from the saddle and make him turn to you when he is being good. (others might have a better reason why you shouldn't).

This will take time and patience. Just keep doing what you are doing. He is only a baby.

Also is he a thoroughbred? Usually they are just a little more goofy out in the big bad woods...And I treated mine differently undersaddle than my quarterhorse. For example, on the trail if we come up to the scary spooky log in the middle of the trail with the quarterhorse i would go to it make her sniff it, step on it, walk over it, around it and so on, from both sides of the log and from her every perspective until she realized its nothing to be afraid of... On the other hand, my TB, I would avert her attention elsewhere and pretend that I didn't see anything why is she acting like a big baby. I would just keep her going.... If i had her check it out like the QH well i most likely would have been on the ground walking back to the barn. But the next time she was in the arena or her stall, I would be sure to have a bunch of logs, wood, garbage can, etc whatever got her going in the first place.

joj
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

Thanks joj,
Last year when we first went out on trails. I did your first suggestion and it worked wonderfully. However we dont always have another horse to ride with.
I try and ride in a type of circle so that he never really turns around to come back home..He starts off scared at a particlur thing then his fear escualtes to everything. I do make him stand till he quitens down. This does work 75% of the time.The other 25% standing scares him even more. So I circle him to try and keep his mind busy. I tried letting him graze while out, maybe I will try the snacks. I just need to get his heart rate down so he can listen. Maybe I should lead him out to the woods, hang out then get on him. What do you think?
At the barn I can introduce all sorts of scary stuff and he gets over it fast.
He is an arab. I been around them my whole life and this guy is the most nervous horse I have ever owned. He had one owner and I know his whole life history. So nothing bad ever happened to him.
I guess I was worried as I have never seen a horse so terrified and he makes himself worse. Silly boy.
Thanks for your thoughts will try the snacks
Katrina
Member:
Willie

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:40 pm:

Hi Katrina,
Adding to Joj's suggestion about the treats -- you could also try going out for a short distance, then getting off, giving him a treat, and then hanging out in the woods for a while in a comfortable spot where you have some room and you can both see anything that might come up the trail. If he ties nicely, keep the halter on under the bridle and tie him to a tree for a while. Bring a book along and just hang out in the woods, giving him a carrot every so often. He'll fuss and fume for a bit but if you're patient, he should eventually get bored.

You might try this first with friends, also -- choose a destination for a picnic, get off and tie the horses safely while you eat and mosey around. The goal is to get your horse comfortable with his surroundings as a safe place to BE, not just a place to move quickly through.

I have an off-the-track thoroughbred who at first went into major panic attacks every time we went into the woods -- apparently he'd never seen squirrels or heard birds and frogs. He's now quite a nice trail horse and nothing much bothers him, though he still prefers to be out there with company. It took LOTS OF TIME and PATIENCE, but I was fortunate because he trusted me and has always tried to do the right thing.

Good luck!
Sarah
Member:
Fpony

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 2:26 pm:

Hi!

I would try introducing "clicker training"
At the barn you condition your horse to the sound of the clicker meaning -treat is to come. You can do this quickly by asking your horse to touch your hand or target (I used a small dog toy) click when he touches and then treat. (small pieces of carrot, apple bits of grain-I use a fanny pack to hold them)Repeating this several times and do it often when you go to the barn. The clicker marks the behavior you want. I can use my voice the same way but when learning to cope with something scarey the distinct sound of the clicker hits home as to want you are asking for.

Once your horse understands the click as a yes you did what I want, you can teach them anything. I used it for loading into the trailer by having him touch his target as he went in. It seems to relax them and give them something to focus on. My horse will pick up his feet with me only pointing to them and on the trail I have a clicker on my crop (which I don't use other then for the clicker) When we would come to scarey stuff I click at any sign of moving forward or by the scarey thing-then treat from the saddle. We can now do puddles, go by scarey telephone trucks with the ladder in the air etc, etc. I've also used it to reward his being calm and stopping as we cross a bridge.

I have an Arab who can be nervous on the trail but the clicker seems to bring him back to earth as if "oh that's what she wants" besides he seems to find learning new things this way fun.
Kim
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 4:27 pm:

Sarah,
I think going out on a little picnic sounds great. I will have to do it on my own. My friends at the barn prefer to ride hard and fast. So we are going to have to learn on our own.
I will also think about clicker training kim. I have read all about it, but have never needed any training tools as he learns everything I teach very fast. This might be the time though.
Thank you Katrina
Member:
Parfait

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 5:49 pm:

Katrina,

I like all the posts here and it sounds like you probably have tried a lot of different things. I can think of just a couple of things (and maybe you have tried these too) but when I have a super nervous horse I try to over relax my body to the point of slouching. Just really relax in the saddle and I often will not look at whatever the horse is looking at--I know it sounds dumb but I think it helps them.

Second, I had a goober horse last year that stayed good in the hills as long as I got off and lead her passed the scariest stuff, but if I rushed her or made her go by herself initially she got more hysterical (and stayed stupid the whole ride). I would often then--evetually--mount up and ask her to take me over the stuff, and I'd give her the time she needed to think about it. I gave her lots of praise-scratch her crest or whatever and she got more and more bold. Now she is a total trooper and will go anywhere.

I would for sure keep the horse out for as long as possible and I especially like the picnic idea. I would go for the longest ride ever. Just walk and essentially flood the horse until he was out long enough to develop confidence. Right now it sounds like he might be out long enough to get scared and go home.
Kerry
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 7:04 pm:

Thanks Kerry,
I think your'e post makes a lot of sense. I had been trying the John Lyons method of slowly going further.,but I have been doing that for ages and it really isnt working for him. It does work for most horses though. I will plan on going out for long periods. Getting off and on if I have too. Maybe I will take some grain along so he can have lunch on our little outing. He trusts me completly so that helps. He is such a great horse.I will definatly do what you suggeest
thank you
Katrina
New Member:
Bmwatson

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 10:53 pm:

Katrina,

I must agree with Sarah because the picnic program certainly worked for me. I have an eight year old quarter horse mare who I have had since she was three. When I first got her she was extremely nervous on the trails when it has just her and I. She was okay when there was other horses. With alot of time and patirence the picnic program worked like a charm. The only thing that I did at the begining though was that when I would get off of her at the rest area, I would just lead her around a bit becuase I felt she was too nervous to tie up. After a rides like that, when I felt that she had calmed down enough, I would tie her up. Now she is just awesome and is to the point where I could probably attempt to ground tie her on the trail (if I was brave/stupid enough).

Anyway, I hope my little tid bit of information helps you. Good luck and goood riding.

Barry Watson
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 3:41 pm:

Katrina,

This may sound crazy, but do you talk lots while you're out riding? Better yet, do you laugh out loud and carry on like you should be institutionalized? (especially when your horse is nervous) This may sound crazy but my TWH was very unnerved when I started riding him away from his pasture mates. All the above advise is very good and we did get good results with the John Lyons method, but what made him overcome his fears, I truly believe, was me laughing, singing, even just talking. It just seemed to comfort him as opposed to the silence, but especially the laughing worked the best. Even now, when he spooks on the trail, if I laugh right away, he immediately relaxes. The rewards have been two-fold, I think it has increased my confidence also. Tango is now a lead horse in the forest, warns everyone of upcoming deer, ATV's, cows in the bush, jack rabbits and the like. He has also come to know the meaning of 'eeeeaaasssy'. It didn't take him long at all to understand that when I say a long drawn out 'easy' it means that everything is probably okay.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 7:43 am:

Hi Sherri,
Thanks for your advice. Its not crazy, its a great idea. I do sing to him and yes it does help, I am glad people dont hear me. I sing Blaze is a good boy a very very good boy :-)I think it makes them feel like they are not alone when they dont see you. I am thinking of taking a loud radio out. It would also scare away the critters before we get to them. I have to try laughing. That will be hard as I dont feel like it when he is ready to explode under me.
Thank you
Katrina
Member:
Dartanyn

Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 2:44 pm:

Just another input confirming the benefits of a "picnic" type trail ride. What I've always tried to do since ALL my rides are trail rides - is make "away" as fun as "home". Take carrots, apples, sometimes a bit of alfalfa; feed it at differing break points and just stand for a bit at those; or an all-out break at the turn around point on the trail. Not always treats, sometimes just a nice body rub - or a break from the saddle or saddlepad that I'm using is a nice reward. Variety keeps them from guessing, and I do not have a trail sour horse ever! Love it! Dawn :-)
Member:
Canter

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 10:06 am:

Katrina,
I'm with Sherri--Whenever I'm the least bit worked up about my horse's behavior (previous horse was a TB who could occasionally get nutty at new things)I would start to sing to him. Singing, talking, makes sure that YOU are breathing, which helps reassure the horse that you are calm and relaxed. The unfortunate thing was I could never remember anything interesting to sing at these times and usually resorted to "Row, Row, Row your boat..." Whatever works!
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 3:20 pm:

Thanks Dawn and Fran and everyone. This is the way to go.The picnics are what we will do.
I also bought a tape recorder with little loud speakers. They fit in the pouch of my saddle blanket. I tried it today I had it full blast. Its better than singing and the music relaxs me as well as him. So far so good. I will keep you updated on our picnics ,singing and laughing rides. Thanks again
Katrina
Member:
Brock

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 4:27 pm:

My horse's preference is my rendition of "Whiskey for My Men and Beer for My Horses". Singing on the trail is therapeutic for both of us (just on those rides when my husband is not along though and it's just the two of us)!

Pam
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2003 - 4:10 am:

Pam, I don't know that song. Can you share the lyrics?

I sing "All of Me," except I only know the chorus, and when all is sweet, "Going to the Chapel." And sometimes, "Homeward Trail," or at least the chorus of that. H'mm guess I need to brush up on my lyrics!

Jerre
Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2003 - 8:36 am:

Pam
I like that song too. I dont sing to my horse on the trail (he would probably turn and run home at the sound of my singing voice!) But i do talk to them and hum sometimes. Jerre, I can email you the song in mp3 format(its too large to upload here).
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2003 - 7:40 pm:

Just an update,
I have done everything you guys recommended and after a few months I have the best trail horse ever. I cant beleive the difference. Thanks to everyone. We just one 3rd in a hunter pace this weekend, crossing rivers, ditchs, fields etc. He is turning out to be my dream horse.
Thank you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Member:
Canter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 8:28 am:

Congratulations, Katrina, for having the patience and determination to work through the issue. No doubt that it has paid off for you in a big way!
Member:
Parfait

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 11:05 am:

Excellent work Katrina!
I bet you two have built a great bond along the way. Congrats!

Kerry
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Saturday, Nov 1, 2003 - 6:07 pm:

here he is now a few months later

We one 3 3rd places in our first 3 hunter paces ever. Thanks to you all for helping me.
Katrina
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2003 - 9:44 am:

I'm glad I'm not the only one riding down the trails singing and talking to myself! It really does help nervous young horses. From the post about your horse being ready "to fly out fr. under you" I get the feeling you are nervous yourself and therefore tense, even if you don't realize it. I don't know if your a "drinking woman" or not, but sometimes a half glass of wine, or short shot of brandy will help you to relax which will help Blaze be more relaxed. With a young horse esp., any difference in you makes him more "on alert." Hope I don't sound too much like a lush here!

Also, I seldom have anyone to ride with and have Arabians-another "sensitive" breed. I have gotten my husband to ride along with me-on his mountain bike(he won't ride a horse.) This has given me some assurance in case of trouble, and gives the horse companionship. Sounds stupid, but I've had horses whinny and get upset when he gets out of sight! However, they seem to move fr. being in the company of a bike to being alone much easier than they would fr. being with another horse. And...I trust you always wear a helmet! (Some great ideas here-I like the picnic one esp.)
Member:
Parfait

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003 - 12:47 am:

That is so great Katrina! You deserve the credit this time, as you have put in the countless hours (and just the right kind!) to get together with your guy and make a team.

That's what I love about training my own...it's the journey that is the most wonderful part. Best wishes for much learning and many new goals ahead.

Kerry
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2004 - 4:54 pm:

Just one thing to keep in mind - trail horses are not born, they're made. Most horses will eventually be comfortable going down the trail but some will never be able to handle it. Case in point - I have an appy mare that is the best trail horse that ever lived. I had her bred so her offspring would replace her when she no longer could do the job. However, her baby just wasn't cut out to be a trail horse. She did great in her three year old year when she was still learning and following her mother, but as time went on, she became a nervous wreck on the trails. She would jig the entire time and be coated in sweat after going just a short distance. I didn't do anything different with her, it was just in her genetic makeup. I spent 4 years trying to turn her into a trail horse and it wasn't to be. I turned her into an arena horse and there she excelled. I sold her to a 16 year old girl looking for her next show horse and from what I hear they cleaned up at the fair that year.

So if your horse is just not making it on the trail, maybe he's just not suited for it. Making a trail horse takes a lot of wet saddle blankets. Most horses can do it and do it just fine, others, well, they may need a new career. Hopefully you'll recognize the distinction and move on to a horse you can enjoy.

Happy trails.
Holly

Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004 - 9:57 am:

Holly
That is a point I had never concidered. It always seemed to me that trail riding would be more "natural" for a horse than showing or eventing and assumed any horse could eventually beome a trail horse. My friend bought a TWH that had never been on a trail. The horse would catch branches in his mouth and due a complete turn if you tried to move him left or right. After the first riding season he was a great trail horse. My appy/quarter mare was very nervous and jumpy for the first year of trail riding, even with other horses. It took a several years for her to become a GOOD trail horse. I hope my two new ones eventually become good trail horses.
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