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Discussion on 5 yr old mare aggressive toward horses in ring
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Member:
reeders
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 5:38 pm:
My five year old mare is fine towards other horses in the barn, cross ties, trailer, and pasture. But, she is defensive of her space in the ring or in tight spots on trails. She is level headed and never skiddish natured. We ride with up to five other horses in lessons and she is fine until one gets too close or pins her up against the fence and she will sometimes kick out towards them. I don't know how to discourage this behavior when she tries to kick at other horses... any ideas or advice would be great! thanks!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 11:00 pm:
A lot of horses don't like other horses coming up behind or next to them in the arena or on the trail. You have to first warn other riders; most people seem to like to ride much too close to the horse in front of them, and cut too close in the arena. When a horse starts to come close, start talking to your horse. I gentlty tap them on the shoulder with the end of the rein to remind them to behave and say "ut,ut." At the first sign of pinned ears and attention on the horse coming up instead of on me, I do the "ut,ut" and rein tap, and also jab with my heels to get the horse's attention on me and whatever we are supposed to be doing (trotting, cantering, etc.) If the horse starts to kick at the other horse, I discipline him immediately (a swift kick and "no")then get right back to work and we keep working.They eventually learn the arena or trail aren't the place for "horse politics" or "woooing" the mares. Some of the pro trainers might have some other better suggestions, but this has worked with my horses including the stallions.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 8:14 am:
I do the same with my mare as Sara describes above: remind her that I'm in the saddle and that she needs to keep her attention on me. Other than many sour puss faces, she's never kicked out or tried to bite another horse. I think the key is to anticipate the behavior, reassure the horse as an other rider gets close and be ready to correct it if neccessary. Also, if someone passes by and my mare's ears remain on me, I give her a "good girl" and quick pat on the withers.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 9:01 am:
I agree with Sara as usual. Both she and Fran hit on a very important point .. anticipate and adjust. A lot of people just ride blindly around the arena without paying much attention to their horse. Always be a proactive rider.
DT
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 10:24 am:
Another idea to desensitize your horse is to pony. Either pony your horse, or use your horse to pony other horses. Obviously, you need to be able to do this safely, so you might start with a horse that your horse is already buddies with and go from there.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 1:07 pm:
Dennis, you agree with me "as usual!" I don't know what to say; I'm dumbfounded and honored!
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Member:
cpacer
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 3:05 pm:
I have to take a slightly different view on this. I don't think it's fair to expect a horse to be okay with getting 'pinned against the fence' by another horse, it goes against their instincts of self preservation. Yes, the horse should do whatever you want whenever you want, but I respect a horse that thinks twice before putting himself and rider in a dangerous situation.
I agree that nasty behavior is not to be accepted, but it sounds to me like the behavior is being invoked.
I think you should let your horse know you'll protect her from the others. I think it's up to the rider to make sure other horses don't get too close and make her feel threatened--not by running away but by making them move away from her.
Maybe if she felt more secure she wouldn't act that way?
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 11:19 pm:
Don't mean to insult you Sara, but it seems that we do think alike regularly.
CP ..Isn't teaching a horse to go against their instinct of preservation what we do in training every day? It is no different than kicking, biting, spooking, or other potentially dangerous reactions in my opinion. If the horse perceives that I am putting him in a bad situation, he may kick at me. My job is to convince him that it is not dangerous and to trust me. I want him to trust me in the arena as well. He needs to know I wouldn't put him in that situation if it was not safe. He needs to accept the other horses just as he does my rain slicker when I have to pull it out. I do agree however, that other riders need to respect your space as well.
DT
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 8:30 am:
I find it helps to shift my schooling whip to the side the other horse is approaching from, and just hold it "at the ready" against my mare's neck.
It acts as a reminder that aggression is a no-no, and she becomes rather demure, keeping her teeth where they're supposed to be, rather than gnashing them in the other horse's direction
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Member:
cpacer
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Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 9:57 am:
I agree with you DT, but if we allow our horse to be pinned to the fence as mentioned above then we've failed their trust. What I intended to suggest was that there may be other ways to fix the issue. I don't think the crop would work for my horse, but that's just him.
There may be room for interpretation in this particular situation, maybe the horse is just being a witch, maybe she's insecure and needs help. My interpretation was that maybe there's a trust building opportunity there rather than a disciplinary one.
Every time I ask my horse to get in the trailer, cross a new obstacle, or even sit on his back I know that he's throwing his instincts out the window. We get our horses to do these things hopefully because they trust us not to put them in a dangerous position, but can't we trust our horses to save us once in a while?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 11:23 am:
Crowding in the arena is a major issue expecially in the warm up areans where there seems to be a general lack of respect for anyone at many places I go. I normally ride a stallion when I'm showing. The last thing I want is for someone to crowd up on my tailend; but, until riders learn respect for each other the only thing I can do is teach my horse not to respond; it's a matter of his safety and mine.
Of course there's always the few rude, overly competative, unsportsmanlike people that crowd on purpose hoping to throw your horse off and get it to break gait or go off the correct lead, bob his head, etc. They think they are increasing their chances of winning by doing so. IMO judges should penalize these riders.
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Member:
reeders
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Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 11:59 am:
Thanks for the advice y'all! I have been riding with my best friend and her gelding out in the ring the last two days and Lizzie tried to get defensive a couple times but stopped after getting a quick tap from my crop. But yesterday I went and rode during a couple of people's lessons.. and Lizzie got worse than before. (Her pasture-mate was also in the ring yesterday.) I told my trainer about the advice y'all had given and we realized most of Lizzie's insecurities started after her pasture mate kicked her the first day we put them together out in the field. (She has been turned-out with a shetland pony since she was eighteen months). It resulted in having to stitch her up and give her a month off. She may anticipate more aggressiveness towards other horses now and has begun to distrust my judgement more than I realized.?
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 4:46 pm:
Cp has a good point, years ago I was on a large group ride. My mare was behaving real well when all of a sudden a couple people said that she kicked at the horse behind me. When I got back from the ride and took her saddle off, I found out that she had a quarter size piece of skin missing from the back of her foot. The rider had been talking and let his horse get too close. You need to make sure other people respect your space too.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 9:55 am:
I saw something on the Parelli Savvy Club (I am not sure why I get the emails, but I had signed up for a free membership at the Rocky Mountain Horse Expo) yesterday that was interesting. Pat Parelli was talking about getting horses comfortable in group settings. He was inside a round pen and his wife (or a student, I am not sure) was outside the round pen.
The horse being trained was the one inside. He started with a fairly small circle, while the horse outside was going in the opposite direction at a trot. Gradually enlarging the circle until they were passing in opposite directions. Then, the outside rider changed directions so the horse was coming from behind, passing the horse on the inside. His point was that as soon as the horse being trained became uncomfortable, he could increase the distance from the round pen edge until it settled down again.
Something similar could be done if you had an outside arena with a railing around it. Of course, eventually you have to get the horses into the same space. But, it seemed like a safe introduction.
Then there was a Clinton Anderson session where he used his horse as if he were herding a cow, following the movements of his student on another horse. However, both horses where pretty solid with backing and roll-backs already.
Just some ideas.
Lilo
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