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Discussion on Some thoughts on mustangs based on my experience
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Member:
pbarlow
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 11:36 pm:
Mustangs are wired for survival. That means they are a zillion times more alert than domestic animals. If you understand that and can control your body language to not tip them over the edge, you are going to succeed. If you are having a hard time with your mustang, look at your body language and clarify it. Have someone video tape your interaction so you can pick out what sets your animal off.
I have had a lot of luck retraining mustangs that had bad experiences with humans with positive reinforcement like clicker training. I can't cowboy up enough to out-mustang a mustang, so I don't even try. I just make them want to interact with me by appealing to their appetites.
Mustangs understand loyalty. Be loyal to him in return for his loyalty.
Spend a long time on desensitization, conditioned relaxation, and spooking in place. Don't get in a hurry. Don't wack, spank, or hit your animal... they are way to sensitive for that.
Mustangs are really the most interesting of animals to train and if you take the time to figure out how to train a mustang, you will become a better horsetrainer for domestic animals as well.
I own two mustangs, one of those 16 hand northern California boys and a 15 hand rescue from a New Mexico Indian reservation. Both came to me with problems and failures with previous trainers. Both are lovely affectionate animals now.
Some things that worked well for me:
endotapping, bridge & target training, John Lyons methods.
Yrs,
Patricia
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 8:36 am:
I agree with everything you have said about horses, but about horses in general. A mustang horse is wired no differently than any other horse. How could they be, they're just feral domestic horses.
The only real difference is they were born in the wild, have no human breeding intervention, and have to rely on their instincts from day one. The latter is what makes them a good study for all horsemen and owners.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 8:58 am:
alden, i agree with you...
there is genetically no difference at all between a mustang and a domestic horse...
those instincts are absolutely present in any domestic horse at birth....however, they are usually tampered with by humans from day one and never allowed to develop their full potential...this can actually create many of the problems that we see in our horses, because the natural instinct is fighting to come out but the human training and lifestyle imposed on them gets in the way... the easiest way to train a domestic horse without having any of these problems is to allow those instincts to come to the front, and then work within those natural patterns... the horse doesnt fight you, because everything you ask the horse to do is natural to the horse...
the mustangs i've worked with have been the easiest ones to deal with, because their instincts were so much in the forefront that it was a much easier matter to peel away all the human muck.... most of the problems people have with mustangs are because they dont work within the natural instincts... as you said patricia, body language is critical, and yet one of the least correctly taught areas in horsemanship... (and i'll add an addendum to your statement patricia that says "if you are having problems with your mustang look at your body language and clarify it".. if you are having problems with ANY horse, look at your body language and clarify it...
mel
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Member:
maximum
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 9:11 am:
I board a mustang and can tell many stories about his attitude and love each one of them. He is definitely his own horse.
A lady came to me wanting to learn how to do showmanship. In front of the mustang, I asked her what issues her horse had, well, "stubborn, won't hold still, will turn her head and walk away from me and I can't stop her, and so on"
So I said sure, we can work and we'll use this horse. Mind you, he listened closely. First thing, she didn't latch his stall completely when she went to get a lead rope, so while I was watching, he opened the stall, looked both ways and wandered out the back door of the barn. He looked at me once for permission and I let him go.
She gets to stall, and no horse, looks at me and I said, "Forget to latch it?"
So she wandered after him.
My only advice was to not be angry at him, he has a sense humor.
Needless to say, everything she described in her horse came out in him and ten times harder. She learned quickly to listen to her body language and voice and to relax with him. She learned to control her breathing, when her breathing quickened it was a sign something was wrong and he caught it and would not stand, I assume her horse was getting the same feeling.
I also use him for equine assisted psychotherapy. He was in one class and while we were ending the session and processing what had happened. He, knowing we were done, opened the back corral gate and left. Went to his stall and waited for his treat, which they all get after a session.
Must admit I talk to this horse a lot and think he understands every word I say.
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Member:
sonoita
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 9:21 am:
I think they could teach us.
happy TRails
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 9:58 am:
Amen Martha, when I got into mustangs I talked with R. Shrake and Mark Reis at length and they BOTH said they are not the same as domestic horses in that their alertness and reactions are so much quicker than a "normal" horse which spells trouble for most humans! Boy do they have a sense of humor!! Dennis Reis has said several times how if he had to pick 1 horse to survive with it would be a mustang! If given patience and respect and love they will repay more than you could ever hope for .... Cindy
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 10:39 am:
OK chalk it up to too early in A.M. and not enough coffee plus old age SIGH! It was Mark Rashid not mark reis sorry! Cindy
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Member:
mcbizz
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 4:48 pm:
Since I adopted McMurphy as a one month old orphan mustang foal, I doubt that his short time of only one month in the wild had a huge influence on his disposition and behavior except for his intense interest in food and defense of his space.
He was courageous and outgoing from the very beginning, unlike the shy little filly from the same herd that I adopted with him. They were as different as night and day. McMurphy became human oriented immediately was quick to learn and would eventually do anything he was asked. I say eventually, because he would not be forced to do anything, I merely asked and waited.
He bonded only with "his" little filly and my paint quarterhorse, who was a surrogate parent to both.
I like to think he had draught/quarterhorse blood in his veins judging from his conformation and head. Also, his calm way of dealing with things.
However, when he was upset, stand back! Deadly if confronted, to say the least.
We all romanticize our horses, whatever breed.
And all breeds have their "airheads" and warriors.
Now that my McMurphy is unfortunately no longer with me, (I lost him a week ago at age 16) I will focus on my Arabian gelding. I know that in his brain and genes there is still some of that wild animal inherent in ALL horses.
Knowing this will continue to amaze and surprise me and keep my learning process moving forward.
Cheers to the horse, whatever the breed.
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Member:
pbarlow
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Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 12:03 am:
Alden,
I think that there is a big difference between domestics and mustangs, not genetically but the product of their environment. Domestics habituate to a lot of stimuli, especially human related stimuli. Domestics habituate to the scent of humans. Mustangs are not habituated to anything relating to the human species. The scent of humans, to a wild horse, is the scent of danger.
The old timers around here used to catch mustangs by walking after them. If you could follow them for a month, you could gradually interface or integrate with the herd. They habituated to you and accepted you into the herd.
The wild horse is hypersensitive to environmental stimuli that might mean danger. The domestic horse is dulled to the environment since none of it is really dangerous in any real sense. They have to make up stuff to pretend is dangerous.
What I notice about a mustang bonding to a human... its much closer than I expected. They seem like they would prefer that you just stay with them if you are going to insist on a position as herd leader. They get confused by your tendency to come and go as you please.
Yrs,
Patricia
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 9:38 am:
Carolyn,
I am so sorry you lost your beloved McMurphy. When they are only 16, you hope that you have many years ahead of you and it is so hard to lose them. Well, it is hard to lose them at any age.
Both my horses (21 yr old half-Arab mare and 11 yr old Rocky Mountain gelding) are very reactive. Any unusual noise, and they both bolt out of their stalls - even after years in the same environment.
I am kind of glad, because I think they will notice unusual noises, smells etc. on the trail. On the other had, due to my mare's reactivity, I have been dumped twice in the last two years. I could do without that!
So - is it part temperament, part environment and training?
Lilo
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Member:
sonoita
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Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 10:17 am:
Carolyn, I agree with you.
Thinking of you and Bizmarkk.
Happy Trails
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 6:37 pm:
Carolyn,
I'd tend to disagree that one month for a foal in the wild isn't a long time. In human terms a month is nothing and slips by in a flash, but for a foal it would be a very long time and much would be learned in that time.
Patrica,
I whole heartedly agree a wild horse will be a product of it environment. I think the same can be said about horses that have been abused or neglected, the few I had the pleasure of working with quickly become very close, once they feel safe.
I take "Wired differently" to mean for a given input there will be a different reaction. Take donkeys, the are wired differently, they are much more a stand and fight animal than the horse. This is one reason people feel mules are stubborn. They are not really but have a little of the donkey's fight and little of the horse's flight, so they also are wired differently than a horse or a donkey. Sometimes I think mules get stuck in between and it takes a little while for them to work out a solution. Once the do work out the solution they will not forget it, I think that's the donkey 
As for Clinton Anderson not training mules I wouldn't know because I never thought to ask him. I do know his training method is all pressure and release in one form or another. It may look like "whack 'em into submission" but there is no real force involved.
Good day,
Alden
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