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  Discussion on At what age is it safe to start training for jumping?
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New Member:
Revans

Posted on Monday, Oct 27, 2003 - 3:28 pm:

Hi -
I have a 3 year old TB (DOB 4/6/00)- At what age is is safe to start training for jumping? Have my 3 yr old leg bones grown and developed enough for jumping? Please give advice for starting age over 1ft, 2ft and 3ft and over jumps - also the size of course - Also, is there any procedures a vet can do to ensure legs are suitable and strong enough for jumping?
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003 - 9:31 am:

What size is the horse? Bigger horses need more time to "grow into themselves" and get their co-ordination sorted out as well as developing sufficient muscle and condition.

All the best

Imogen
Member:
Janene

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 29, 2003 - 11:37 pm:

I would like some input in that area too. I have a POA which is 18 months old and will probably be close to 14 hands. (Between 55 and 56 inches. I free jumped him over a pvc pipe on cement blocks and he loved it. I just sat and watched him go around and jump the pipe in the round pen.

I looked out one day and saw my 80 lb. Granddaughter with one foot on the fence and trying to reach her horse with her other foot. He just moved over under her and then kept eating. She sat on him about 5 minutes. I'm having to really make an effort to keep her off of him. She can't wait until he is old enough to jump.
Member:
Revans

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

The 3yr old is a 16.3 hands TB with long legs and a slender frame -
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 2:01 am:

The standard practice here in Ireland (assuming it's not intended for racing) would be just to break such a horse for riding to the point where it could walk, trot, canter, turn, go on a little hack on its own or in company without freaking at traffic, jump a tiny jump (maybe 18 inches), be roped over drains and banks and then turn it away for something like 4-6 months to develop further. However with some such horses they would be left until 4 yo if it was felt they were not sufficiently physically developed so it wouldn't be hard and fast advice. Can you post a picture? Is it 3 going on 4 or only just 3?

All the best

Imogen
Member:
Chrism

Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 10:58 am:

I'm with Imogen ... I am inclined to start a horse at W/T and maybe C at 3 and work on gentle flat work and quiet trail rides. If the horse seems to adjust well, I might add a cross rail or log on the trail at age 4. I wouldn't really start the jumping training until the 5th year, and then it would be using Bertelan de Nemethy's approach. The first couple years under saddle I would look to establish a good horse/rider trust and flat work that includes leg yield, perhaps small shoulder in, straightness, bend, large figures, good transitions and general good horse behavior trailering, outings, trails, perhaps small, low level shows.

But, I tend to be pretty conservative and am not trying to get a prospect going quickly for a sale to make money. My goal is to develop and learn with the horse I have as if it is with me for its life.

For reference materials and approaches, I would highly recommend:

The De Nemethy Method: Modern Techniques for Training the Show Jumper and Its Rider
by Bertalan De Nemethy

Basic Training of the Young Horse
by Reiner Klimke

Cheers.



Member:
Jerre

Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 11:28 am:

There's an interesting article in TheHorse.com, Training Young Athletes, that talks about age and level of training pertaining to race horses. It basically says that some level of physical stress improves the physical ability of the young horse and avoids problems later. The article acknowledges that this is counter to current popular opinion.

Here's a short outtake and the link:
"It sounds completely backwards, the idea that you might actually increase health risks by postponing training and competition until a horse is four or older. It goes against the ages-old and widely held belief that you cause damage by initiating work before a horse's skeleton matures. Yet research conducted from the 1980s through the present day has steadily been debunking the old theories, replacing supposition and circumstantial evidence with hard scientific fact.

In short, the newly understood reality is that done correctly, exercising and even competing a 2-year-old horse could be beneficial by strengthening the horse's musculoskeletal system and decreasing his long-term risk of injury. We'll look at the research supporting this theory (most of which relates to racehorses), discuss how the information might apply to other types of riding, and touch on the unknowns that still remain.
The underlying theme that carries through the research done on bone development and exercise is that bone--particularly the cannon bone--must remodel, or change, in order to develop the shape necessary to endure the rigors of racing. "

It goes on at: https://thehorse.com/viewarticle.asp?fid=4651&dpt=36

You may have to subscribe to read the whole thing, but the site is free.

Food for thought,
Jerre

Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 5:20 pm:

Please, all,
I think you should not consider what you assume happening in a racetrack appropriate for the training of your own horses.
Young racehorses are trained very carefully, by professional trainers and jockeys. Their training ground is very flat, clean and straight. Their rider is very light and very balanced on their back. Nobody actually sits heavily on their back, and they have at least 1/2 a mile of space to slow down. They do NOT turn circles smaller than 20m, unless in slow walk. They are professionally treated and "repaired" after each training session. And they have to think of little more than just the galloping tempo.
If you think you can provide similar environment to your own young horse, do ride at 24 months, it is really beneficial.
Otherwise, do it's bones, joints, ligaments and brains a favour and wait until 36 months minimum for basic conditioning under saddle. And 12 months more for basic jumping...
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 5:35 pm:

I agree for my own horses. I have an 8-month old filly and the most I will do in her 2 year old summer is get her used to the saddle, and maybe a light rider to sit and teach her lateral flexion with a rope halter, and to walk and direct-rein steer in a safe area. Maybe 10 (max 20) hours. We're doing lots of ground play already. Then basic riding education beginning in her 3 year old summer.

My 4 yo is good on trails, and safe and obedient at walk-trot-canter. I haven't jumped her yet, but she'll be easy (I think!) because she chooses to go over jumps at liberty. This summer we may do baby cross-rails and up to 18 inches.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 5:37 pm:

Oh, and let's think of one more thing here,
Watching your horse flying effortlessly over the poles in loose jumping DOES NOT mean that it is bodily or mentally ready to go into jumping training.
An 18 mo, for example, is perfectly capable of performing spectacular tempi (changes of lead on every step) in the paddock. Does that mean that it is time to start trying such training under saddle?
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 5:50 pm:

I prefer to judge when a horse is ready to start jumping by it's balance. Somewhere around 48 months their bodies "bind" together, in a sense, they are steady and secure in their canter, and then jumping comes natural.
Trails are good for jumping, too. They do strengthen bones and everything. I hate seeing jumping horses coming out of their stalls only to jump !
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 6:19 pm:

For my "two cents" everyone has brought up some excellent points. The "balance point" is a good one-a horse has to have the experience with ground work and flat work to know where it's body starts and ends and how to controll it.

One thing I'd like to add, is that is depends on the horse. Richard's orginal question was re: the TB, I know. But it should be remembered that what is good for the TB isn't necessarily good for all breeds-nor is what is good for one TB good for all across the board.

Horses vary a lot in how fast they mature both physically and mentally from breed to breed, and from individual to individual. All components must be there. Some horses are mature enough physically at 3 to start serious work, but just haven't matured enough mentally. Also, while work makes bones grow more dense and thus stronger, it is still important to wait until knees are "closed"
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 6:53 pm:

I fully agree, Sara,
I have repeatedly seen straight brothers and sisters beeing completely different horses in ALL aspects. Thoroughbreds, that is, and of superb, "pure" genetic lines.
Truly, no two horses are the same...
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2003 - 10:35 pm:

Yes, it's my 4 yo, actually coming 5, that I may start with some little jumps soon. I only mention her willingness at liberty to show that she's not frightened or put off by the look of jumps. She's a big, strong, quiet mare, with nice controlled energy. My fervent hope is that she'll be a nice packer and that I can enjoy some low-level jumping again! I also ride on hills whenever I get the chance, which has been very good for our balance.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 6:23 am:

It sounds, Jerre, like jumping time for her.
Be careful, however, with big and strong. The heavier a horse, the more wear and tear it suffers, especially in the front legs and shoulders. This is the reason I avoid obstacle distances of less than three strides and turns of less than 15m for the first year jumping. Rebalancing after the jump is what "hurts", not the jump itself.
Give her time to adjust and enjoy it...
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 11:56 am:

Thanks Christos, I expect my limited sense of adventure (middle-age courage) will keep us at the occasional x-country jump or small course. I have no huge ambitions for challenging, or upper-level courses. But, if we progress well and slowly, maybe my courage will grow, too.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 12:39 pm:

It will, Jerre, it will.
Just remember to trust your horse. Many riders forget that trust can only be mutual. If you fear her reactions, she will most certainly fear yours. Horses do forgive most of our mistakes, but it seems we are unable to forgive even their smaller ones.
I believe that the middle-age approach of limited adventure and patience is one sure way to excellence. You'll reach where you'll reach. Just enjoy the procedure of getting there, my friend, and you will never reach an end...
Member:
Althaea

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

Beautifully put Christos! I applaud you folks who have the good sense to wait and the understanding that waiting is infinitely the wisest, safest, and kindest thing you can do for your equine partner and yourself. Both parties grow immensely from the process.
Thank you folks for allowing me the pleasure to see I'm not the only "stick in the mud" who believes that slow. patient teaching is the way to go!
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 1:40 pm:

I long ago realized that enjoying the moment and the journey was much more rewarding than hyper-focusing on some distant goal. If we can't enjoy where we are, then it's not much fun, is it? My horses make many fewer mistakes than I do -- after all, most of this is stuff they know, it's just up to me to catch up to them! A lifelong adventure, isn't it?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 4:10 pm:

Jerre-maybe that's the advantage of age vs. youth? (hey-I'm older than you

Having raised both, I can say patience and persistence is what is needed to raise good horses and good boys!
Member:
Penner

Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2003 - 2:23 pm:

I thought I would share some information I have on the order of bone fusion by age. Its from Dr Deb Bennett, PhD who is (IMHO) a guru on conformation.. She has written 3 volumes on Conformation, they are fascinating!

That said, I personally follow the "Old School" method, & don't ride until they are 4 years old at least (they rest is ground work). I figure, if the Old School people have done this for centuries, & had great horses, who am I to fool with a good idea?

ISBN numbers and publication dates are:
vol 1: 1-929164-05-X (1988)
vol 2: 1-929164-06-8 (1989)
vol 3: 0-9611314-3-8 (1991,1996)

BONE FUSION BY AGE =
1. Coffin Bone: at birth.
2. Short pastern - top & bottom between birth and 6 mos.
3. Long pastern - top & bottom between 6 mos. And 1 yr.
4. Cannon bone - top & bottom between 8 mos. And 1.5 yrs.
5. Small bones of knee - top & bottom on each, between 1.5 and 2.5 yrs.
6. Bottom of radius-ulna - between 2 and 2.5 yrs.
7. Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius - between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
8. Humerus - top & bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
9. Scapula - glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion - between 3.5 and 4 yrs.
10. Hindlimb - lower portions same as forelimb
11. Hock - this joint is "late" for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial & fibular tarsals don't fuse until the animal is four (so the hocks are a known "weak point" - even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks)
12. Tibia - top & bottom, between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
13. Femur - bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.; neck, between 3.5 and 4 yrs.; major and 3rd trochanters, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
14. Pelvis - growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 yrs.
15. Vertebral column. A normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum. These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 1/2 years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later full fusion will occur. And for a male - is this a surprise? -- you add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand TB or Saddlebred or WB gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year.

The lateness of vertebral "closure" is most significant for two reasons. One: in no limb are there 32 growth plates! Two: The growth plates in the limbs are (more or less) oriented perpendicular to the stress of the load passing through them, while those of the vertebral chain are oriented parallel to weight placed upon the horse's back. Bottom line: you can sprain a horse's back (i.e., displace the vertebral growth plates) a lot more easily than you can sprain those located in the limbs. And here's another little fact: within the chain of vertebrae, the last to fully "close" are those at the base of the animal's neck (that's why the long-necked individual may go past 6 yrs. to achieve full maturity). So you also have to be careful - very careful - not to yank the neck around on your young horse, or get him in any situation where he strains his neck (i.e., better learn how to get a horse broke to tie before you ever tie him up, so that there will be no likelihood of him ever pulling back hard.

Hope this clears up some things...
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2003 - 2:46 pm:

Thanks, Penner,
This is exactly the reason that horses younger than 7 are not allowed in the Olympics.
And this should be extended to ALL competition.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2003 - 3:00 pm:

Penner-this is great! Thanks.

Many horses, in many disciplines are started way to young. That's another big long discussion we could get into-mainly the "whys" re: the hurry to get horses under saddle and performing. I'm a firm believer in letting them grow up.
Member:
Roboski

Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2003 - 9:33 am:

I've really been enjoying and learning from this thread and the mention of balance being a determining factor of when a horse should start jumping made me smile.

My 12 year old son has a 3yr 8 mo QH gelding that he's dying to jump. He's a 16'1" big baby, looks more TB actually, and the vet says his knees are closed.

I let him enter JR in some baby, w/t cross rails at the show Saturday and really wished I'd brought a video camera. The gelding wants to please and so he carefully, slowly, stepped, leaped, jumped, cantered, trotted, nearly fell over and in many other ungainly ways made it over 8 tiny x-rails.What balance?? We cheered him as though it were the Grand Prix and I think will wait a little longer to do much jumping!
Member:
Christos

Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2003 - 11:41 am:

The physical and mental balance required to do it safely, Sharon.
Horses are not toys for children. Especially young, green, big horses.
A 12 yo kid on a 3 1/2 yo horse is asking for trouble. Please, reconsider.
I wish you all the luck you can get.

Member:
Roboski

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 7:12 am:

Hi, Christos
Thanks for your concern!
My son has been riding since he was 5yrs old, and he and his pony have been jumping 3 ft for years. Even made it to our 4H State competition twice!
His instructor has been teaching hunt seat for 40 years and stresses safety first for horse and rider. We are not going to overface this baby! He's very quiet and sensible and we are bringing him along slowly; we've owned him for over a year and just a few weeks ago asked him to go over a few very small x's.
My son is an exceptional rider who has been foxhunting on his pony for three years now. I would never dream of putting an inexperieced child on a green horse. There is a difference in 12 year old kids, right?
My point was that the HORSE, for all his seeming maturity, is not quite balanced yet, just as was stated. My son's balance (both physical & mental) is marvelous!LOL.
Sharon
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 8:03 am:

You are right, Sharon.
I am over-conservative in some ways. This is perhaps why I prefer training stuntmen to teaching talented kids. It is less dangerous, for horses and riders alike.
Member:
Roboski

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 8:41 am:

I truly don't believe that it's dangerous, Christos! I am a careful & protective mother, after all.
This is a lovely QH with a sensible brain that looks kinda TB. Not a highstrung bone in his body! Maybe with an OTT race horse, but this baby was handreared from 4 wks and almost believes he's a dog. Just as with children, you can't make assumptions about horses based only on age.
I know 15 yo horses that I wouldn't trust my son on. And maybe all equestrian sports are too dangerous for kids. As well as football, skateboarding, dirt bikes, swim team, bike riding......c'mon Christos!
Member:
Roboski

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 8:48 am:

And soccer, y'all play alot of that over there, don't you? Causes brain damage from them hitting their little heads on the ball.........
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 10:53 am:

Sharon,
Actually your first post made me smile.When I was 12 I was winning everything around. I remember that enthusiasum. I knew at 12, to never, never do anything to hurt or put my horse in jepardy. So I think at 12 your son is fine. Especially being around them for so long. I rode and exercised my mums purebred arabians Stallions, one was green broke, at age 10. They were little hot heads, but I turned them into gentle giants and I was just a kid. Kids need more credit. My mum also would never have let me exersise them if she thought they or I were in danger.

A 40 year old man could do as much damage as a 12 year old. I have seen grown men drunk, and sober,get on a green or unconditioned horse and gallop it till it cant go any more, with no regard to the horse. Age is not the problem. Its love and commensence of the horseman/woman.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 11:13 am:

I should say. I was 10 . The stallion was 3 1/2yrs.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Oh , and back to the origonal post. I waited till my arab was 5 before I took him over 12-18 inchs.
Arabs take a few years to fully develop. In regards to jumping the longer you wait the better. My horse at 6 1/2 is finally ready in my opinion. You should know your horse. I am in no rush. Personally I would not jump a horse under 4. a cavaletti here or there for fun is Ok . Nothing serious though. The info above about fusion is excellent.
Its not balance that makes my desions. They get better balanced through regular riding and exersise. Its the horses body maturity. Is he physically strong enough for the jolts and bumps of jumping.
Member:
Roboski

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 1:46 pm:

Gosh,yes, Katrina
I only wish I rode like this kid! The advantages of starting so young are amazing. I dislike cantering my TWH 'cause I say it's too bouncy and then my son jumps up on him and looks like he's sitting on the couch. GRRRR!
I think it's cool these two will mature together, and as I say we aren't rushing him. But alot of folks down here think QH's mature a little faster.I wonder if there's anything to that? The gelding trailrides, herds a few cattle, shows in flat classes - just great for a young horse.The kids were playing basketball while I had JR in crossties and the ball bounced under his feet; nothing! He just looked down and stood there!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 8:42 pm:

I wouldn't worry about a 12 yr. old riding a young horse. It totally depends on the kid and the horse. I started riding before I could walk (literally) by sitting in front of my mom. When I was 12 there were few horses I couldn't ride-my son was the same way.

Sharon-your young QH sounds like a "keeper!"
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