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Discussion on Saddle makes my gelding...frisky!
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 11:15 pm:
I have a 10 year old gelding. I have had him all his life. He was gelded at 3 months. He has always had a twerpy "A" type personality. But these last few years he has finally matured and given up all the games. A friend wanted to ride him the other day and we borrowed a western saddle that has been used on him a few uneventful times before. As soon as I tightened the girth he started getting aroused. We lunged him and then she got on him. He kept getting aroused. He wasnt being bad really just very distracted and horny! She finally got off because I was worried he might do something. As soon as we took the saddle off he went back to being bored and sweet. I was like a switch was turned off.
How can this happen so suddenly, something must have changed and how do I change it back.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 11:24 pm:
what is the make of the saddle.. my husband could use a new saddle...
sorry i could NOT resist...
Ann
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 11:29 pm:
Oh, Ann . . . .
That's just too cute . . .
Honestly . . . LOL
Holly
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 3:47 am:
Possibly to do with the girth tightening on a reflex point around that area, although I have to say I've never seen a horse react like that! Maybe yours is particularly sensitive, lol. I've seen one react like that to food though ...
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 6:24 am:
Boy I am almost afraid to wade in here. Remembering our very young readers, I edited the title a bit.
First it is uncertain it was the saddle, there were hundreds of unique events that day and it is difficult to assess which got his attention. I have to admit the saddle sounded like a switch turning the response on and off. It would make an interesting experiment to return to his usual saddle a few times to see if someother factor is also involved, then you can try the aphrodisi-tack. Control for as many factors as possible: rider, other horses around, etc... If you do it let us know how it works out.
DrO
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 7:54 am:
Shelly,
Maybe it wasn't so much the saddle, but a certain scent of your friend? Perfume? I have heard animals do sense a womens cycle; farout idea but maybe he was reacting to her "scent"?
Scary!!
Ann, Um, don't let my husband hear ya say that, he'd want a new saddle for me.
Maybe we should investigate this more, I like Dr. O's "aphrodisi-tack" concept. Think of the possibilities. Like with a mare that doesn't obviously show signs of coming into heat.
DrO., really, I am surprised you didn't edit the title from the first. Now this should make for one interesting on going subject matter.
I can't wait to see where this goes, I am so grinning right now!
Seriously, hopefully this reaction gets figured out before someone gets hurt.
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 8:41 am:
Angie
Actually that is not a far fetched idea. I was thinking the same thing. I have never seen it first hand with horses, but have been told stories by women about the reaction of some stallions and geldings when around women menstrating. There have also been accounts of bear attacks on menstrating women in national parks. The bears will pick up the scent and become confused by it and attack.
Colleen
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 8:42 am:
OK...I usually enjoy this site from afar...but just had to say that Ann's & Dr O's comments have me laughing out loud (good thing I have a home office--would hate to explain to co-workers why I'm giggling at my computer screen)...My mind is going a million miles an hour coming up with all sorts of puns for Shelley's gelding...but for the sake of keeping this a family friendly website, I'll forgo the temptation....Thanks for making my day!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 9:55 am:
What a great way to start the day..with a laugh!
I thought I'd mention, however, that one of our stallions gets "turned on" everytime we put an english (all purpose or dressage) saddle on him, but never with a western saddle. I figured it was just his "quirk" Could there actually be a reason for this? How weird! Needless to say, this is a topic I'll be following!
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 12:38 pm:
I am glad everyone else thinks this is as funny as I did. Luckily he is a pretty good boy and knows his limits. One of the first things we did was to let him sniff the saddle and both of us after we untacked him. He was not "frisky" (your right, much better word!) any more and was very uninterested with any smells. He just started falling asleep in the cross ties . . . . . sound familiar !! Im thinking there is some presure point on his back or the girth area. There just has to be a Button with the way he was acting.
If I suddenly dont respond to this discussion it is probably because my computer is on its last leg and went belly up. We have a new one on order. Thanks for all the responses.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 1:56 pm:
and now you say a saddle that is putting presure on the RIGHT presure points.. hum... this could be marketable... all it took was a saddle change.? think i will go do some enternet shopping..
Ann
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Member:
Gr82bme
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 2:22 pm:
Shelley
It could just be your guy was feeling good that day. I get teased all the time about my 11 yr old gelding. He DrOps anytime he is around me. I hear "I never saw a horse so glad to see its owner" all the time. It is nothing I do. I just do alot of quality time things with him. Maybe he was just glad to see you or to be ridden? Don't know that this helps you any but I thought you should know it does happen to me everyday.
Debby
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 2:35 pm:
Ann, you are a hoot!
Shelley,
My guy DrOps everytime I groom him (sometimes he moves it and/or when he is completely relaxed. But he is never "bad".
On the other hand, my friend was riding a stallion and he would forever DrOp. She would just tap it and say "PUT THAT AWAY!"
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Member:
Trouble
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 2:55 pm:
Maybe he's a "Cross Dresser"!!!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 9:59 pm:
Lisa-ROFL!!
My stallion doesn't just DrOp-and I assume that Shelly is experiencing what I am. Mine gets quite "studdy." (Of course, he is a stud, but usually a very laid back one.) He arches his neck, DrOps, prances-the whole show. He will respond to correction, luckily. But, why does he do it? I like the "pressure point" idea personally. Think I'll compare the difference in fit between the eng. and western girths.
Ann-You're too funny! internet shopping for yourself? or horse? or...??? And, I assume your looking for something in black leather?
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 12:40 pm:
Your right Sara, I am not talking about the "happy" horse who DrOps when he is being groomed, relaxed or just happy to see someone. I have even seen those horses get a little stiff. My guy did this while under saddle there was very little grooming involved. It was accompanied by grunting, doing a little dancing, and he kept trying to sniff or nip at his sides. I could temporaily distract him by putting him to work but as soon as I slowed down he would get all worked up again. The second I took the saddle off everything stopped. I am getting that special western saddle back today to try, I am very curious. He could care less with my jumping or dressage saddle.
Ann, I will let you know the specifics of the saddle since your sooooo interested . . . . !
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 11:17 pm:
Well Ann, I have bad news for you. This aphrodisi-tack isnt very consistant in its results. I tried the saddle on him today. He DrOpped twice and was acting distracted for a short time, but there was nowhere near the reaction that I got the other day. I even took him for a trail ride with it. I will be happy never to see him act like that again, even if it leaves me forever wondering.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 11:28 pm:
Ann...my dressage saddle still gets my stallion excited. Want to know what kind it is? 
Shelly-glad he's more normal now. Bad enough to have a stallion acting like that! (Now you know why he does reining and western pleasure instead of dressage.)
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 - 9:50 am:
well by the reports it sounds like i would have to saddle hop... and well, lets say that just does not fit in my monogamous ways..!... maybe i will have my husband try some NEW things on the old broken saddle .. a little saddle soap and maybe a new pad... that might just work.....{\red
thanks for the humor.. Ann
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 - 10:07 am:
Well...if you can convince your husband that saddle soap is an aphrodisiac,let me know how! Maybe it will work on mine, ...I've got a lot of tack that needs cleaning. 
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Member:
sswiley
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Posted on Monday, Mar 24, 2008 - 10:35 pm:
Hey everyone,
I thought I would just add on to my old post since it is the same problem.
Same horse, similar behavior. He is 14 years old now and mostly goes on trail with me and my daughter.
Some underlying behavior he has had all his life has been mild aggression to strange horses. I have always been able to temper his aggression with a good whack and putting him to work.
Well now his aggression seems to have gotten worse. Now he is going after other horses if we have to pass on a narrow trail. I kept him from hurting any one but he is acting very aggressive. He will either try to charge or kick depending on which end he has better access with. My daughter thinks he is protecting her pony, I think he might be protecting me (he really is attached to me), my vet also thinks he is protecting me. I suppose that doesn't matter which. My vet was going to look into some test we could do to see if he has some hormonal levels that are either present all the time or are released on certain occasions. She was hoping there was something we could give him when I take him out to make him a little safer. Of course we will proceed very carefully till we know how any drug will affect him. It is really bazaar because he is really a good boy normally.
My question Dr O. is, what tests do you know of that will help me figure out if there is an imbalance going on that we can medicate.
thanks
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Mar 24, 2008 - 11:46 pm:
Hi Shelley,
Well, I suppose it might be interesting to test him for testosterone, but it seems to me that the problem is a training one regardless.
We use the term "stallion behavior" as short-hand for territorial aggression, a constant quest for dominance, and sexual display. It's a bit of a misnomer, because many horses will try these behaviors, and adopt them if they aren't trained away from them consistently and with sufficient firmness. None of my stallions would have been permitted to behave like that, and they have plenty of hormonal excuses to want to try.
So I think you need some good training for your horse and for his handlers. His behavior sounds hazardous to other people and horses, as well as to his rider and potentially himself. At 14, there is unlikely to be a completely medical solution, since the behaviors will be quite ingrained. Even if he feels challenged on the trail, his rider should be in complete control of his behavior at all times. Sounds like that isn't currently the case. Good luck getting a handle on him.
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Member:
sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 25, 2008 - 9:46 am:
Yes I agree stallions should behave just as well as geldings. Just not sure how to deal with my particular situation. His behavior is perfect at all other times(I always ride in an english saddle). He normally acts like a benign gelding. The only other behavior I could possibly accuse him of would be a little mouthy and more testing of my space than the other horses. But bottom line, he is a horse that my 10 year old daughter has been able to handle at home. He is occasionally turned out with three other mares and although he flirts with them a little if they are in season he doesn't do much more than I have seen other geldings do. It has only happened with strange horses, and of course that causes a problem with training. I can't expect people to supply me with horses to use as guinea pigs. Also, I don't know if this behavior is that ingrained, it has only happened a handful (less than 5)of times during his life and the prior ones have been minor. Of course when he did go to kick or bite I punished him and put him to work, and trust me, I did it swiftly and it got the point across.
I do know that mares can get hormone producing tumors that cause behavior problems and when the tumor is removed the behavior goes away. So there are medical interventions for some behavior problems.
Please don't assume I am an inexperienced horse person that can't handle a rude horse, I have had plenty of horses and am not afraid to address a behavior issue. I understand that on a web site it is hard to communicate the breadth of anyones experience along with their current question. My vet who knows me and my horse also is taking his situation seriously and believes there might be a medical issue.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 25, 2008 - 11:26 am:
Shelley you know your horse best and were there, we can give suggestions but I think if your gut feelings tell you this is extraordinary behaviour I would certainly do the testosteron test a few times, it is not complicated I've had it done with a cryptorchid and we had to retest several times but after that we had a good idea of his testosteron level.
After that you can make further decisions based on what you find.
By the way I've found the 'normal' stallion way easier to handle then the cryptorchid with his rare ups and downs in testosteron level he was unpredictable, which made training him dangerous and difficult.
I would like to hear how you proceed,
Jos
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 25, 2008 - 1:26 pm:
Shelley -- my oldest boy has some things in common with yours. He is a gelding who DrOps down a great deal when I get around him. He also gets very studdish around mares and this behavior will last much longer for him than it will with most geldings. Mares love him and stallions hate him. He is noticeably jealous if other humans come around me and his jealousy extends to a dislike of other horses being around any members of his established herd. He clearly believes that we all belong to him. He is okay on the trails in that he doesn't "go after" any of the other horses though he can get cranky if they are too close and I believe that he would reach out and bite another horse except that I am always ready to get after him if he starts to do so. He had very firm "cowboy" training and usage before I got him so he knows how he is supposed to behave under saddle. Also, if he has any kind of physical discomfort going on it makes him generally MUCH MORE irritable, aggressive and cranky. Part of his personality is that he is rather emotional and if he gets frustrated he is prone to having a temper-induced reaction. In his case, I think it is just his personality, but it definitely becomes much stronger if he is in some kind of physical discomfort.
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Member:
sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 25, 2008 - 2:50 pm:
Thanks Vicki and Jos,
Interesting, these "geldings". Just to add further insight, my boy was foaled at home. From the moment he hit the ground he was a handful. He was so rude to his mother and she so passive that I ended up weaning and gelding him at 3 months. The castration went soothly and I put him in with a cranky pony. That helped for awhile but he has always had a "testing" side to him when it came to ground handling. He is trainable, he just needs lots of reinforcing. On the flip side ever since the day I got on his back he has been so happy to oblige anything under saddle. As if he liked me up there . . . . ! I know the vet got both testicles(I saw). Is there a possibility for a third? I had a hard time understanding the article on castration.
Elizabeth,
just re-read my post after yours, it sounds a bit tart. Sorry, not my intention.
I know training can deal with a good portion of this behavior, I am just in the position of riding with my daughter and her little friends these days. Kids tend to forget how close they are to another horse and they are also down lower. I want confidence that I can keep him in line if something unexpected happens. There are enough unexpected risks involved with riding as it is.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 4:38 am:
Shelley never heard of a third testicle but I read somewhere on this site even geldings have a little testosteron levels left[for another reason then testicles but I can't remember] and these levels are different in different individuals?Need Dr. O to comment if I have understood correctly
Perhaps a search on testosteron level would help.
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 6:42 am:
Hi Shelley, my gelding acts like that around strange horses on the trail too, some seem to set him off more then others. It is a very frustrating problem and one I haven't completely solved. Like you I don't have the opportunity to expose him to different horses.
I believe it stems from being an insecure herd boss. He hasn't been around a lot of strange horses and just doesn't know what to do...I think. I have gotten a bit of a handle on it, he usually gives some kind of warning he wants to go into "attack mode" ex...ears go back, butt hop. Soon as I see his warning I am correcting him before anything happens. This has helped, but he is quick! He has no stallion tendencies. I think with him anyway it is an insecurity around strange horses and his need to be "boss". I also foaled him out and he has only been around my horses for the most part all his life. Let us know what you find out.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 - 1:22 pm:
Hi Shelley,
Reading about your situation brought an article to mind from the Parelli's column in Horse Illustrated. I found a similar description on their webpage. It is called "Horsenality" and gives insight into different personalities of horses and how to react appropriately to curtail their behavior. Just something to think about.
Just click on the circles to read a description of the different horsenalities.
https://www.parelli.com/content.faces?groupType=HORSENALITY
I also ride with kids who can be a little unpredictable. I find I must be completely focused on my horse and not on anything happening around me to keep my guy in line. Not sure if you are directing the children while directing your horse, but that could cause confusion in your horse.
Linda
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Member:
sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 - 8:36 pm:
thanks Linda,
Yup, left brain extrovert would peg him.
Although he is really well behaved under saddle except in these rare but significant situations. I actually think he likes me on his back, he would be happy if I sat up there all day.
The only directing I need to do with the kids is to keep them together and not let any trot off ahead without the group. Luckily my boy is fairly good in the back of the pack, its just when we need to pass other horses on a trail.
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