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Discussion on Claustrophobia?
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2003 - 2:09 pm:
My 10 year old Morgan gelding has always been worried about large vehicles coming towards him on the road. He also does not like going into narrow spaces, or going underneath anything fairly low - although he will go under branches on a hack with no problem whatsoever!
He will load into my horsebox (don't know what the US equivalent is) as it has a side load and presents quite a spacious entry, but getting him into a trailer is another matter - he just won't!
I don't suppose this is an entirely unnatural response but many horses accept these things with no problem. He recently had to go into a treatment room at vet hospital but point blank refused to go in, as the doorway was relatively narrow and although higher than a stable ceiling, he kept baulking at it. He goes into a stable fine, by the way.
I've had this horse since he was three but he has always had these issues. I've tried many different approaches but so far nothing has worked - with the exception of trying to get him to walk under a pole, which had to be done firstly with the pole removed, then semi-raised, then put down and he eventually accepted that. This was during a Le Trec training day (Le Trec is a kind of competitive trail riding event which is quite popular in Europe and the UK). But I know if I were to meet another pole another day and in another location, he would not do it!
Has anyone else had experience of this and were you able to overcome it?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 6:00 am:
Hello Gill,
All of your problems seem to revolve around the problem that your horse goes forward, not at your command, but only when he wills it. I suggest you start with some focused round pen lunge work that concentrates on keeping the horse moving forward when asked and not stop until specifically asked. If you are not familiar with lunging seek some professional help so that you can learn to give consistant signals. In time this will translate into a horse that will go forward more willingly when asked.
For specifics on trailer loading see, » Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Trailer Loading a Horse but I would not start the lessons until he is behaving well on the lunge.
DrO
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 7:41 am:
Dear Dr O, I may have given the impression that my horse does as he pleases, but in fact he lunges and longlines very well and is very obedient. He walks, trots, canters, whoas all on voice command on a loose rein. He will generally do most things I ask but these kind of instances tend to throw him into a bit of a panic and he then stops listening to me.
I know in some cases where I can spend time conditioning him to the 'scary' situation I will win, but in instances such as a large lorry approaching round a blind bend there is not much I can do!!
The funny thing with him is that he will accept most things, given time and patience, but in new situations he reverts back to panic stations. It's as if his senses go into overload and all rational thought is thrown out the window! Large vehicles coming towards him at speed is something he has never got used to although I have to say he HAS improved with the help of my safe and sensible pony, and providing I am on the inside of the pony and the vehicle slows down, he is fine.
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Member:
Lesleyb
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 11:28 am:
Gill,
You might look into the John Lyons conditioned response trainning methods. He has a 'spook in place' lesson and a calm down cue which teach the horse to deal with his emotions and fears and also to look to you for the guidance he needs rather than the head/tail up 'I'm outta here' type reactions to scary things. No, I don't mean your horse does this I mean only that too many other horses do!
There is a web site you can go to, complete with a discussion board that you can go to and the best part is it's free!
www.johnlyons.com
You can read all the threads but you will need to register in order to post.
I hope this helps.
Lesley B.
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 2:47 pm:
Thanks for the info Lesley, I'll have a look at the site. By the way my horse does fall into the 'tail up I'm outta here' category with scary things! He is basically a wimp. But very sweet with it 
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 4:21 pm:
I found an interesting article and thought of your situation while reading it. It might help explain why your horse is reacting this way. Check it out at:
https://horsetraining.8k.com/think.html
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2003 - 7:18 pm:
I think your post reveals more than a horse who is nervous when riding on the road, the speed of the vehicle is usually not as much a concern to the horse as the human. Do you ride facing the oncoming traffic just next to you or ride with the traffic? It is far safer and more comfortable to ride with the lane of traffic next to you at your back. I am sure the noise is a big consideration for the horse, perhaps you could make a recording of heavy traffic and play this while he is eating.
The horse lunges perfectly, even when you push the horse, but will not move forward when asked to load or under saddle? Then every time the horse misbehaves, you need to get down and lunge the horse a bit to remind him. I wonder if the signals you use when you lunge are similar to those under saddle, if so why the different responses?
DrO
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2003 - 4:22 am:
Dr O, we always have to ride on the left hand side of the road with traffic at our back, and the oncoming traffic on the other side of the road. A lot of the problem is in the UK we have very narrow lanes which sometimes barely have room for two vehicles side by side, so if anything large has to pass it is often very close - sometimes just a foot or so away. This coupled with high hedges, no verges, blind bends, and ignorant and fast drivers, does not make for very safe road riding, especially when you have a horse who is not 100%! You are right that my horse does tend to react to noise as well. He can generally cope with vehicles passing from behind, and from side to side - it is the oncoming traffic he has problems with - usually very tall vehicles. I can always get him past if they slow or stop. What happened in the past when he was younger was that he used to spin anti-clockwise right into the path of the vehicle, despite me riding with right shoulder in, and everything else I should be doing on the road. It was just a panic reaction. He also displayed the same reactions when ridden by a top trainer on the roads. Now the reactions aren't so bad and I can usually prevent the spin, but basically I avoid the roads if at all possible and only use them when unavoidable.
It's not so much I can't get my horse to do what I want, it's the panicky reaction of being in an enclosed space that I'd like to eradicate. Once when he was younger, my friend and I were trying to get him onto a trailer (probably bears no resemblance to trailers used in the US - they are smallish two horse trailers). We took out the centre partition, opened front and rear ramps, and took our time letting him get used to it. He got rewarded whenever he took a step forwards, and eventually we managed to get him right into the trailer. My friend was standing at the groom's door luring him with food, when suddenly he panicked and exploded, and instead of running out the front ramp he threw himself through the groom's door!! He got stuck, then finally the rubber seals gave way and he popped out unharmed! I had visions of all sorts of awful things happening, but no harm was done - however it taught me that a horse can indeed fit through a groom's door 
That is the kind of panicky behaviour he displays when he feels trapped - it is how to get him to trust me and deal with his fears in those situations, as he does trust me most of the time.
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2003 - 8:41 am:
A very interesting site Linda, the fearfulness does describe my horse, his temperament is quite highly strung and nervous, but he can be very placid and calm when he is happy with his surroundings. I have bookmarked it, thank you!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2003 - 9:26 pm:
We seem to be a bit all over the place here. Yes that type of panicky behavior: unexpected and explosive is hard to control and really a different problem than refusing to move forward. There are 2 ways to deal with this:- The old way would be to insure the horse cannot break free and let him work it out, essentially fight until he gives up and accepts the restraint. This works better with foals and immature horses. Most adults will learn but some horses require repeated "events" before the blowing up and therefore is never really trust worthy. He may not be as bad but you never know when the next event will be.
- In the new way acceptance is gradually shaped with positive rewards for good behavior. This may result in a more secure solution but does require a dedication of time and effort.
For a better explanation about how this works see » Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses.
Perhaps one example about the behavior on the road. Make a decision to only ride on roads or at times that have very little trafic. Whenever one on those large trucks approaches, get off the horse before he becomes nervous. Hold the horse reassuring him and giving food rewards, as decribed in the article, as long as he does not pay attemtion to the oncoming vehicle: the second he does discontinue the rewards. I don't think it would be long before you have his undivded attention. Try and get the reward transfered to a kind word or pat. He should not be long you can get the horse through a passing vehicle with little more than he kind word. Then you can begin shortening up the time until the truck arrives until you can stay up.
DrO
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2003 - 6:57 pm:
Hello Gill,
I went back and looked at all the posts, and I think DrO was correct about always moving forward on command; here is why.
Moving forward on a long line and moving forward into tight or scary places are two different things. The long line is a good start, but I would use what Clinton Anderson calls lounging for respect (he has a good video tape set by that title).
Working in an area that has a good fence, or using the wall of an indoor arena, work the horse right and left on a lead line between you and the fence/wall. Send the horse either way, between you and the wall/fence, just when the tail of the horse is passing in front of you ask for hip disengagement by stepping for the tail and pulling the lead rope towards you belly. The horse should step under itself in the back and turn and face you. Send the horse in the opposite direction and repeat. Start this well away from the wall/fence and move a little closer each time. Be prepared! Have a riding crop or a light staff ready that you can correct him with, as he gets closer to the tight object, the space between you and the fence/wall getting smaller, he WILL try to go over you rather than through the tight space. Correct him and direct the shoulders away from you. Do this until he walks quietly through a space just as wide as himself.
I also think the spooking in traffic and the fear of tight spaces are two different problems. I’d work the tight space problem and just avoid traffic for now. This exercise will not get him into a trailer but it is an excellent foundation and will make the trailer loading much easier.
Alden
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2003 - 2:13 am:
Hi Gill
Loads of sympathy here from Co. Cork - we are lucky, our roads aren't as busy, and our drivers are more considerate, but I hear a sugarbeet truck or milk tanker and I'm immediately calculating the distance to the nearest gateway with one of my horses...
I find it's quite possible to get her past anything with reassurance and determination. The problem is she is quite likely to spook into the path of an innocent car coming in the opposite direction. Given the nightmare situation with insurance for horse/motor accidents here, I reckon discretion is the better part of valour and usually make for a gateway. Preferably one that's large enough for her to go around and around if that's what she wants as a complete halt always drives her nuts.
I don't think it's claustrophobia, just spookiness. They are flight animals, after all... I think the advice in other posts about separating out the trailer issue and the traffic issue is very good.
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2003 - 1:35 pm:
Know what you mean Imogen; trouble is there isn't always a handy gateway!!!
Alden thanks for the info; I will try this with my boy once the weather improves and see what happens. He HAS walked through small gaps no problem, it's just certain situations which he finds a problem with, and you can't always foresee them!
Dr O that may be a good way of approaching the problem with the lorries; thing is it is not always safe to jump off on our types of roads - especially if you are just coming around a blind bend!! Maybe I need to walk him out inhand more.
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