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Discussion on 5 year old rears while leading
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New Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 - 9:06 pm:
My five year old warmblood gelding rears when I am leading him. He has terrible ground manners and it has been brought to my attention that he was handled very little, only harnessed to drive and then turned out. I have been starting to work on leading and whoa, walk and trot. However, if he doesn't want to walk on or decides eating grass would be more fun, he rears. I have never been hurt and I can get him down and back in the pasture, but how do I prevent and retrain him out of this behaviour? It has been a hard winter with a lot of snow, so he has been off all winter. I can not even lunge him yet as there is still too much snow.
I would truly appreciate any advice to prevent the rearing as soon as he becomes frustated, which is whenever I ask him to do something he would prefer not to do. He has made lots of progress in other areas, tying for grooming, lifting his hooves etc and standing for the farrier, all of which he was unable to do 4 months ago when I got him.
Thank you in advance,
Alexis
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 5:09 am:
Alexis,
First, you have to make sure that he understands what you want. Do not take for granted that he knows he's supposed to walk next to you all the time.
Praise often when he follows nicely, so he understands that it pleases you. When he throws his fit, just wait it out. A chain over the nose and a lunge line may be helpful so that he does not escape and you stay out of harm's way. The idea is to show him that this attitude is just nonsense, and that it won't get him the desired results.
Do not praise him immediately when he lands again, or he will think you really enjoyed his performance.
Do praise him for every little hint of cooperation after he throws his fit, such as taking five steps next to you. And do not quit until he does what you want.
More often than not, the results you expect are a few minutes away from the point where you feel like bursting in tears and never touch a horse again...
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 5:36 am:
One more thing Alexis,
I read often that a way to bring a rearing horse back on the ground is to gently pull him sideways so that you destroy his balance.
I think this method is not advisable, for two reasons. First, if the horse loses grip on one of the hind legs while you pull him sideways it may result in a very bad fall. Second, I like horses feeling confident in the air. I believe that destroying their balance in such a rude way does not help them build confidence in their abilities or in you.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 8:34 am:
Hello Alexis,
Our suggestions on rearing horses are in the article Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Halter Training and Tieing Horses.
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 10:41 am:
i had a terrible problem with a two year old over 16'2'' hands last year... you can find my post on that...
what cured her was having her ponied by a COMPETENT rider /handler... when she went up he would have his pony horse crash into her or throw her off balance... the basic problem was that she had no respect for the halter... she gained TONS of respect after one hour of this ...
now she is approaching 17 hands.. she gets giggy at times BUT KEEPS HER FEET/HOOFS ON THE GROUND...i still lead her with a chain over her nose and lunge rope.. just in case.. i have a good memory of that horrible winter of bringing in a powerful horse on two feet which made her 100 stories high..!!
i am thinking of a tune up lesson for her.. just to keep her mind fresh on me!!!
good luck its not fun bringing them in like that..
Ann
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 10:59 am:
Rearing filly/chains/ be nice halters...
this was the discussion i was talking about..
Ann
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 5:21 pm:
Ann,
Thank you for that link to Rearing filly/chains/ be nice halters...I got a lot of really good suggestions from it. He is so well behaved in his halter when he is tied for grooming. He will also behave now when the farrier is here, which is major for him, since his last owners tied his legs up for farrier work, which they did themselves. It has taken some time to gain his trust with his feet. Leading, that is his big thing still. I am going to try some of the suggestions you received in that post and see if we don't get some results that way.
Thanks so much!
Alexis
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 - 5:35 pm:
Christos,
Thanks for your advice. Oh he knows he is supposed to walk next to me and I know this because he walks on, when I say walk on, trot when I say trot and whoas when I say whoa. Then the noise in his head says, "hey, this is boring and there is some frozen grass there, lets eat it". For 3 days in a row, the path I use for hand walking the horses was snow covered. He was perfect all three days, then yesterday, it was warm, the snow was gone, grass was visible and that was all he cared about. That was how he behaved in the Fall as well, when I first got him. If I wanted him to walk on and he didn't want to, up he would go. You are right about the bursting in tears too, I have NEVER had a young horse behave like this, ever. It is tough to get used to, not that I think you ever would. I wanted to sell him yesterday  ! I really appreciate your comments and advice and I realize we will get through this, our relationship is still new.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 10:47 am:
Hello Alexis...I read a suggestion somewhere on the Advisor that if you raise your hand up in the air above your head when he's up or on the way up, it MAY cause him to come down...can't hurt to try it anyway.
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 1:10 pm:
Hi Alexis,
Totally understand your frustration! As much as we love them we want to sell them for dog meat at times!!
But reading what Christos says, perhaps, what he means is that horses do not quite understand things in the same concept that we do. I adopted a horse a year ago, that for 12 years had been a stallion, semi wild and lived alone, he was turned out all day, ridden maybe once every six months, but, he was brought back to the stable every night. He was very good at getting his head collar on and the simple everyday routines, but, when it came to leading him, it was a completely different story… he was used to being pulled by a jeep… his ex-owner who was the jolly green giant at 6¨10” loved to show off with his stallion, so this horse reared and pulled away and wrestle with him, bite, and all the nice things that make us turn all the colours of the rainbow. With the plus that this horse attacked you when you tried to contradict him, after all that was all he knew! To be a stallion.
However, 12 months later he is a perfect gentleman! There is a saying, “it takes 10 years for an expert to train a horse, but 10 minutes to a fool to ruin it” and it is so true. By no means do I consider my self an expert, but, at least, like yourself, I try to educate myself before I try to educate my horse.
My advice to you would be to ask you, to please remember that horses are like a six or seven year old boy, and reprimanding them for not reading the lesson without teaching them the alphabet first can have terrible consequences.
Patience, patience and more patience is the only way.
All the best
Liliana
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 1:21 pm:
By the way is that him on your profile??? he sure looks like a kind ol´lad.
Be patient with him, you know he will be your best friend in the end...
Cheers
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 3:48 pm:
i have to agree with a few above... Prima is now one of my favorites... she has always had a good mind... just confused a little... i sometimes think the best ones give you the most work!
Prima will be backed this summer and i look forward to working with her as a partner...
Ann
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 6:21 pm:
Liliana,
Yes that is him and he is a sweety. When the vet came to do his inspection for insurance she actually checked to make sure he was gelded. She couldn't believe that he was! I love him, I really do. I see so much potential in him. He will make a wonderful mount. I know this is going to take time and I know he is worth it. And I think likening him to a 6 or 7 year old is pushing it, he is in the terrible 2 and 3's! I realize this, I do, but boy it is work.
I am going to use a lunge line to lead him, that way I have room to keep myself safe and to manouver. I need to pick up a dressage whip and see if that will help get his attention and move him forward out of the rear.
Patience is something I have, luckily. That and my old aged pony mare, who does whatever I ask, whenever I ask! LOL, she is keeping me sane!!
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Monday, Feb 23, 2004 - 6:23 pm:
Ann,
I think you are right. The smart ones are often the difficult ones. Thank you for sharing your story about Prima, I am certain you will have a wonderful partnership.
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Member:
Jjet
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 - 2:10 pm:
One more idea, one I picked up a few years ago from a John Lyons book and it worked like magic for me the only time I had to use it (on a two year old): Sharply rap the front legs with a dressage whip on his way up or as soon as you can reach. Just make it sting. My gelding got this wide-eyed look like 'oh, I'm not supposed to do this?' It only took three times and the third time I didn't even get the whip to his leg before he was down! Has never gone up again under any circumstances, it's been 2 years since. Jerking his head only encouraged him to pull more in a rear.
I was hesitant to try the whip but everything else I had tried failed to help. I was very worried about the problem because I had known someone with a rearer, so dangerous. Anyway, you don't have to be vicious, just issue a sharp correction, be careful not to cause injury. He will be suspicious of whips for a while but if you revert back to only using it as a cue he will get over it.
This gelding could not be nicer or more loveable, just needed to understand that this is a definite no-no!
Jan
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 - 10:04 pm:
Jan,
I have started "laying down the law" so to speak already. Besides rearing, he will paw/kick out with his front legs, at the gate or in his shed if I am too slow with dinner, whatever. So I had the whip, gave him an attention getting smack and I thought his eyes would pop out of his head! I know the look you are talking about! He has been angelic since. Now, I am not letting my guard down or trusting that a couple of whacks have turned him around. I am staying alert, but I really see a difference in his attitude, at least for right now. I think this is the first time he even considered that I was the boss and not him! So I see some progress and I think it will continue. I just don't think he ever considered that he had to have "manners" as we see them.
Thanks for your post.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2004 - 10:31 am:
Alexis... yes, stay alert at all times... today i still lead Prima at the witching hour with a lung line attached... just in case..... i believe that even tho you stop a bad behavior that it is always tucked in there somewhere and if not ready will 'rear' its ugly head once again...
Again i say just keep plugging away with ideas, cus eventually , i hope , you will win.. i did.. and like i said above, I LOVE THIS MARE... she is very honest in what she does.. she just gets excited at times and confused.... BUT TRIES SO VERY HARD TO DO RIGHT..
Ann
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2004 - 12:18 pm:
Hi Alexis.
I raise Trakehners, 15 yrs now, and find five to be a very critical age for both sexes, even if they had great handling early on. I would always carry a dressage whip with your current challenge, and make sure gloves are part of your routine. For rearing, I back up beside them, never facing off with them, and smack the hind legs smartly. This teaches them that you will deal with resistance by asking for forward motion and will later translate to riding. This phase passes, and 6-7 is the beginning of their maturity in my experience. Hang in, laugh, and don't get hurt. You have the potential to enjoy a healthy warmblood well into his late 20's at least, so it will all pay off. Stacy Upshaw
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Member:
Cwblover
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 25, 2004 - 2:05 pm:
Thanks Stacey,
The dressage whip is going to be an extension of my arm for the next little while, LOL!
I used to work with Trekheners when I was younger, training them to jump. Lot's of fun! They are beautiful horses!
I know he will end up being fantastic. As it is he has been angelic this week. But if we don't have respect and trust on the ground, we will not have it in the saddle. I know this and that is why I have been trying so hard to instill ground manners. I just have never dealt with a horse this stubborn. However, the whip is working. Just having it on me has kept his attention.
Thanks for your post and I will keep you updated.
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