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Discussion on Green Horse, Green Rider
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 10:18 am:
I have been training my horse lightly in saddle for the past year. He is now three and together we have learned a lot, and we continue to learn from each other. I have been riding horses for four years now, learning first with an instructor and now through reading and this forum. I realize most experts would advise an inexperienced person not try to train an inexperienced horse, but this is where I am and so far, things are progressing very well. What I'm wondering is if those people out there who have been through a similar situation in the past, could answer this question. Looking back, and knowing what you know now, if you could have done something differently, what would it be? What I'm trying to find out is what mistakes I might be making now that won't show up until a few years have passed.
Linda
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 10:32 am:
One suggestion would be to continue working with an instructor that you trust and that builds your knowledge and skills. It is very difficult to get good feedback when you're going it alone, and a good instructor is really invaluable. Not saying it can't be done the way you are doing it, though. I watched my neighbor train herself through books and riding, riding, riding from the age of 14. She is an excellent self-taught rider who took a fairly green off-the-track Standardbred to a seasoned trail horse. They also show.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 12:10 pm:
Linda,
I think the way you have gone about your horsemanship education is deeply rewarding and although very frustrating at times. It sounds like we took similar paths. I purchased my first horse, an 18 month old, after he kicked and broke my arm. Up until my ‘significant emotional event’  , something that is necessary to change the human mind, I thought I had some idea what I needed to do from reading. That 18 month old sure corrected that misimpression of mine! After going through one trainer that just didn’t know what to do with the unruly colt I found a trainer that really know horses and would show me how train this colt. That horse as a five year old last summer finished a 30 mile endurance race and placed 1st in his very first 36 mile NATRC a month later.
It isn’t something I would change really, but I highly encourage maintaining contact with a good trainer. I’m not convinced that a deep understanding of horses can come from a book or video. Don’t get me wrong, books and videos are important, but the language of the horse is so subtle much can be missed in book and video learning.
Also, I like to get other people, with more experience and less experience, on my horses. A lot of times with new riders I can help them learn something new and refine an aspect of training in my horse at the same time.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 12:41 pm:
Linda
I started at 29 with my first horse. A green broke 2 yr. old Appy. My situation was a lot like yours. My interest is trail riding only, and around here you get on your horse and ride. There is no hiring trainers and instructors to tell you how to ride a horse down a trail. If you have a horse that you just cant do anything with, you send it to the Mennonite fellows for a month and get back a horse you can ride. That was 13 years ago (gosh where does the time go). Looking back I would have married a rich man who would have bought me a big farm with an indoor arena, a barn with electricity and running water, a big truck and fancy trailer, paid all the bills so I wouldn’t have to work. Seriously, I think I would have attended some clinics and watched training videos. Or maybe not as I still have not done that yet. I don’t see any mistakes with my appy although someone else might. She is a good trail horse, well behaved and has no bad vices. Not to say she can’t be stubborn at times and still needs refreshing. Of course I think learning horses is an ongoing process. I will say that she and I have a closer bond than I have with my saddle horse that was well trained when I got her some years after I got my appy. I think because of our “learning together”. It sounds like you are doing a great job.
Colleen
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 12:51 pm:
I would also advocate having a good and sympathetic trainer. I have been riding for over 30 years and thought I was pretty competent. I had a loan horses, a troublesome older chestnut mare as a first pony, then a really dependable and bombproof native pony.
I had always wanted a Morgan but in the UK they are very expensive and the only way I could afford one was by getting a youngster.
Well this horse taught me very quickly that what I knew amounted to practically NOTHING! He was sensitive, flighty, reactive, spooky, and highly intelligent - I had never experienced anything like it. We went through hell and back, my confidence fell to zero after a nasty accident and he was almost sold three times. What brought me back from the brink was finding a brilliant trainer who got the two of us working together as a team. My confidence crept up until I was doing all the things with my horse that I had always wanted to but had previously been too scared, and more. We have been to many shows and clinics, tried western, showjumping, long distance riding, dressage (even won a few classes), got Hi-Points and Reserve Ridden Champion in breed shows two years on the trot.
It can be a hard slog, you make mistakes (but hopefully learn from them) and sometimes you can't see a light at the end of the tunnel, but when things DO go right it is so rewarding. My horse and I have learned together and come out the other side okay.
If it hadn't been for this trainer I may very well have sold this horse, who is now my best friend and love of my life!
If you are ever unsure of anything, then get good advice before a bad habit gets ingrained. I also use books and videos but sometimes you need to be shown first hand as it's not always easy to comprehend everything. Good luck and I'm sure you'll have many happy years together.
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Member:
Rjbraun
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 2:08 pm:
Hi Linda sounds like your doing great .BEST WAY TO TRAIN and learn together .I come from the old school and had to learn myself, made mistakes but did not make them again .Keep up the good work.Bob.By the way best way to bond with your horse and you.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 8:51 pm:
I got my first horse as a little kid. No lessons. She was a moody mare who would get me off her back easily. She taught me to ride. Years later I had years of pony club and lessons. But through out all my years of horses my horses were the ones who taught me more than any instruction. I did learn wonderful tips though from a few good trainers. Trainers are great but the horse is the best teacher. If something isnt working you have to change what you are doing. I found that takeing in as much info as you can from people books, trainers etc. Apply what makes sense. Most horse training is common sense and being tuned to your animal. I have been lucky enough to be brought up around arabians. They dont put up with anything that hurts or bothers them. They taught me patience and love. People say Ug an arab. Its because they dont know them or they have seen a case of the arab outsmarting the human. Some green horsepeople with a green horses can be a big mistake but it sounds like you are one of the ones who can make it work. Good luck and happy trails
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2004 - 11:53 pm:
Hi Linda, I know where you are coming from. I have raised Levi,now a 4 year old, since he was 4 months. He is my best buddy, and this year we must get serious about riding. Today I took him out on a long line to introduce fresh grass to him for about 20 minutes. Suddenly, out of nowhere, the other horses started running, he spooked and took off, rope burning my hand to where I had to let go. As I watched this magnificent 1000 lb animal running, head and tail in full tilt, I thought, " what am I thinking" I am way too old to take on this challenge! I too could use a little encouragement about now!!!! I still love him, but YIKES!
Good Luck
Suz
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 13, 2004 - 9:46 am:
Thank you for all your kind words of encouragement. Some of your responses brought tears to my eyes as I imagined what my horse will be like in a few years. I am very fortunate that he is an easy-going fellow that seems to take life with a grin. He does present challenges to me, but if it weren't for his smooth personality I might be more discouraged. Katrina, I like your thought if one idea isn't working, try something different. That is one of the best uses of this forum, because you get many ideas from people that have actually used them. As for using an instructor, that is not an option at this time, but I will keep it in mind. I have never let anyone else ride my horse, but Alden, I do think you have a good idea there and I think my horse is ready for that.
Most of all, I can appreciate the bonding you all feel with the horses you raised and trained yourselves. As frustrating as it can be one day, is as rewarding as it can be on another. Happy trails to all of you!
Linda
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2004 - 4:25 pm:
Susan,
If this horse is normally quiet and well mannered, I wouldn't worry too much about him. He was reacting to the rest of the herd. He thought there was something to be afraid of and didn't really care that you were on the other end of the line. He was leaving NOW! Most any horse would react the same way when the herd goes thundering by.
When I watch my horses playing together in their paddock and they play hard, I wonder if I'm nuts to think I'm going to ride this beast. They run, twist, rear, buck, jump around, and just act like babies (they're 17 & 18 years old). Your kid is still young and impressionable and was acting naturally and relied on instinct. Have heart, don't give up. You'll have a great time with him but remember he's still a kid.
Good luck.
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Member:
Gailking
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 - 3:51 pm:
Linda, I bought a green 4 yr. Arab as my first horse. He had some issues already. I trained him myself for over a year until I found a wonderful trainer who taught me to ride better as he is very sensitive and smart. Most of our issues boiled down to trust. At 9 now, he finally trusts me completely and will do anything I ask because he knows I wouldn't ask him to do something unsafe. My second horse I got at 1 1/2 yr. and his training was much easier because he didn't have issues. The trust was there and he has a much more easy going personality, plus he benefitted from a lot of ponying and learning from my older guy. My trainer's advice is to always be aware that you are riding a greenie. You should keep your reins short and your body in position, legs on as you never know what can happen. My younger guy is now almost six and after two years of riding and never bucking, he bucked me hard twice one day. In hindsight, a lot of things combined to over stress him and I should have given him some other options on the trail. Anyway, I didn't come off which is really important. She advises me to use a neck strap for safety if I get into trouble. I ride bareback a lot so it gives you one more tool if you need it. I allow my horses lots of freedom which really helps them mature and learn. I often let one or the other run loose out on the trail when it's safe. They hike with my husband and me like big dogs and will go cross country through all kinds of brush and trees, up granite rocks, etc. At home they explore my yard and walk on blue tarps, across tin roofing, around vehicles and yard machines. My older one had trailer issues years ago, but after one session with my trainer, he loves to trailer now. They both load beautifully and calmly. We went on lots of short trips and fun rides so they line up at the gate to go somewhere. When I finally did their first long trailer trip, they did great and unloaded at rest stops with semis, etc. and then jumped right back into the trailer. For advice, I wouldn't use gimmicks or gadgets. Mine head toss and still can when very excited but persistent, calm reinforcement is more effective than some artificial aid. If your horse charges down hills, make him walk and if he won't, go back up and do it over until he will. Always discourage prancing or bunny hopping; it is a very bad habit to get into. It can take a year to get them to walk calmly when excited. Most important, read your horse; learn when he is starting to lose emotional control (I failed at that when my young guy bucked). Allow him an out, reassure him and reward good behavior. My older guy was terrified of cows. When he first saw them I thought he would have a heart attack his heart was racing so fast. I got off and he still was terrified. We were on hundreds of acres so eventually we walked away from them. Then at future times when we encountered cows he was still very nervous but calmed some each time as I reassured him. One time recently, my husband was walking with us and chased one of the cows. Well, he watched and really liked that idea. Later in the ride I had him walking loose trailing his buddy and my husband and watched them chase the cows off. By the next encounter of the afternoon he strode off in front of our group and went up to the cows and starred at a calf who turned and bolted. He was so proud of himself. Now he looks forward to getting to herd the cows out on the trail whether he is loose or I am riding him. Once you have the trust, expose your horse to lots of different things always building his confidence and never asking for unnecessary dangerous acts. I prefer lots of trail riding in various terrain. Arena work gets boring and repetitive although I do practice some dressage for conditioning. I know some people discourage treats, but I have found that they can work wonders. When I trim my horses feet, I give them a horse cookie when I am done with each foot. They stand patiently, and lift the next foot to get the next cookie. I also used this system at the beach last summer after they ran right past me one time. The next day I brought some cookies and rewarded them for coming to me. After that, they always ran right back to me for their treat. (We are still working on getting used to the ocean. That is a big, big training challenge.) One thing I would not do in training is a lot of lunging. I did lunge my older horse some, but preferred to deal with his issues on the trail, etc. I think lunging is hard on young horses' bones and the repetitive stress is detrimental. Lots of old schoolers still lunge each time before they ride, but my horses aren't hot or wild before I ride without lunging. All in all, try to make your experience with you horse a pleasant and reassuring relationship so that the trust and confidence is there for both of you. Oh, and always wear a helmet no matter what! Good Luck. Gail
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Member:
Horsepix
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 20, 2004 - 4:29 pm:
Well Linda, I guess it depends on what your goals are. Do you want to show this horse or simply trail ride? If your goal is only to trail ride, then going about it on your own is probably okay. However, if you want to show, then you're much better off finding regular instruction to help you with your seat, application of aids, and anything else that happens to come up. This will save you much frustration and heart break in the long run. I am actually an advocate of learning with a trainer regardless of your goals, as a proper seat is a proper seat no matter what style of riding you're doing.
As to your situation...I wouldn't have started riding a two year old horse, but that is a debate we don't need to start here. I will say that I've been where you are -- actually I am there right now, but not by choice. My first horse was given to me as a yearling when I was 14. Green on green. Somehow, we made it all work out, but my seat was severly compromised because I never had anyone to tell me how to sit in order to truly be effective.
Now, I own a 6 year old Thoroughbred mare that I purchased off the track. We are training on our own, but I'm no longer the green rider I was at 14 (many years ago). However, I would LOVE to have a regular instructor as old habits die hard, and I'm sure there are times when I don't realize that I'm sacrificing my position in order to get the point across to the horse. Unfortunately, to date, I have not found a trainer (that I like) that is willing to travel to my barn for lessons.
So I'll say again, although there is something dreamy and romantic about training the backyard horse on your own (don't we all have those dreams of grandeur?), I think its a much wiser choice to instill the help of a professional who you trust to guide you and your young horse through this journey we call riding.
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 11:18 am:
Hello everyone, what great advice. I have a question for the seasoned horse trainers in any of you? Levi, 4 yo QH, leads wonderfully in the round pen and in the confines of his huge fenced in area. It is when I take him down the driveway to the other pastures, or strange areas that he walks faster, head tossing, and occassionally steps on my toes. I have tried the chain under the chin, this seems to make him toss his head more. I know I need to expose him to this "out of his safety zone" work if I am ever going to ride him on the trail someday. What tips do you all have for walking at a polite safe distance from me to avoid his stepping on me, and how to correct his moving out just in front of me, not at my side????
thanks
suz
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 1:28 pm:
Susan,
I have been working with my horse to teach him not to walk faster than me. What's worked for us started by leading him in a comfortable area, such as an arena. I started playing a game with him called "go when I go, stop when I stop". I take several steps holding his lead very lightly. When I stop, I allow him to keep moving, but at his slightest pause, I praise him. As he improves at stopping, I asked for a little quicker response before I praise, trying to keep his shoulder and mine together. Very quickly he learned to stop as soon as I did. To get him moving again, I made a fuss with my foot, showing him my boot stepping forward. (At first I also gave a light tug on the lead line). I praised him moving forward, any movement at first, then worked him into moving along with my foot. I taught him turning the same way, asking him to turn when I put light pressure on his flanks or shoulders, then backing up, and leading him on the opposite side. As he got better at the "game", I started incorporating it into our daily routines, especially when leading him from pasture to barn at feeding time. He was always in such a hurry to get in the barn and now he knows to be a little more patient and stay with me. It really comes down to him learning to repect you as leader, and causing a horse to move where YOU want is a powerful leadership tool.
Linda
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Member:
Horsepix
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 8:16 pm:
Hi Susan,
It sounds like an issue of R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Before you get into a real sticky situation leading on the trail, I think you should go back to the ring and work on respect issues. Be sure that he understands and respects your space. When you move towards him, he should move away (whether that is backwards, sideways frontways, etc.). He should learn that his place is always an arms length (or X distance) from you. This takes time, patience and practice, but the end results are worth it. You may need to use a short whip at first to get your point across -- and perhaps carry it with you on your walks purely as a reminder.
The one thing I would change is to not have the chain under the chin. That is incredibly sensitive skin and I have know doubt that he toss his head whenever it is pinched by the chain. With my mare, I use a chain lead over the nose as I believe this to be less severe than under the chin. I also twist it once around the noseband of the halter so that the force is more on the noseband of the halter, rather than on my mare's face/skin. Without a chain, she'll walk all over me (definitely an alpha mare), but with the chain, she is happy to comply with my suggestions.
I'm not a parelli person, but I have used the parelli games to aid in respect training. You may want to look into this method or some other natural horsemanship method to help you earn the respect of your horse.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 9:13 am:
Susan,
I just recently attended a de-spook clinic run by a mounted police troop. An interesting question from the audience came up...when the horse is afraid or fractious, should one get off and work on the ground before attempting to work from the saddle. The cop's reply was a rather emphatic "no". He said that unless you plan on leading your horse down the trail, or over an obstacle, or any other situation; you want to work from the saddle. According to him, the horse will have to relearn the obstacle under saddle even when practiced in hand. In other words, unless you plan to do a lot of "trail leading" instead of trail riding, don't bother.
Now I don't mean that you shouldn't work on leading at all--of course you should. But if trail riding} is your goal, ride the horse out when he is sufficiently trained to respond to your riding aids.
I have a feeling a lot of people will object to what I heard, but it makes sense to me!
By the way, Linda, I too got my first horse, a barely broke app, when I was 12. Rode the first two years bareback, no saddle. I boarded him with a retired cavalry colonel who told me the best way to train your horse is "ride 'em, ride 'em, ride 'em". I went on with the same horse to beat a very accomplished trainer in hunter trials, and sold the horse for ten times what my parents paid for him. You go, girl!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 9:27 am:
Oops! That's "bareback, without a bridle!", not saddle (that goes without saying). I used a halter for riding until I could afford proper tack.
Another thing--since I am on my soap box!--I have seen too many riders work for years with a trainer, and they still can't really ride. Pretty position does not a rider make. If I see one more show rider who can't get her horse to do anything outside a ring I think I'll faint. Riding is about getting a horse to do what you want.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 9:52 am:
I think Susan's question was specifically about how to get her horse to lead safely, but you have no objections from me, Erika, as far as staying on your horse's back when he gets spooky on a ride. I have learned over the years that asking a horse to face the fearful object/sound/whatever, and WHEN he stands facing it, let him stay there on a loose rein, is the best way to train a horse to always turn and face rather than spin and run . . .
Riding is about communication . . . both "talking" and listening to our horses . . . and I agree that unless the driver knows where he/she is going and how to get there, it can be a scary experience, indeed. That is one reason that after a rider achieves balance and the ability to direct a horse in the ring, 90% of my lessons contain a trail ride component (albeit a short one for time's sake) and we go over as many aspects of trail riding as possible about teaching horses to face scary objects, not letting them turn toward home, how to get past Mailboxes, puddles, baby carriages, bicycles, school busses, tractors, etc., how to stop a runaway . . . how to stay safe and happy . . .
For most of us, I believe horse ownership and riding is about relationship . . . not about achieving and winning . . . and there are many horse owners and riders who get burned out from showing and scared of riding out on the trail, and end up discouraged and demoralized before they get a chance to develop great communication with their horses.
This site is a great place for us to learn, and I recommend it to horseowners of all abilities whenever I get a chance. Thank you, Dr. O, (and members) for making this site possible and for all the questions and information you have provided.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 10:20 am:
I for one firmly believe that good ground work leads to good work in the saddle. Period. I think Susan knows that she needs to work with her horse more on the ground...and I agree with Amy about the crop...but not the chain. My suggestion is to use a rope halter instead. A couple of good shanks and a tap of the whip will wake him up and not hurt him.
Ummmm...ok, Susan I don't mean to hijack this thread...and I apologize in advance. BUT...I understand that if you dismount a horse when spooking it could lead to more spooking etc etc...because the horse thinks he can get you off his back that way....BUT I had a friend (accomplished rider) recently come off a young, inexperienced horse on the trail and is now paralyzed. If you're going to advocate staying on a horse thru everything...why not advise a professional to help out as well? Oops! Sorry...you did! I need to read more thoroughly! 
I for one plan to mount and dismount my horse often AND have a professional take him for 30 days on the trails.
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:07 am:
Thanks to all for your advice. My horse is not just a project, but also a pet and best buddy. We hang out together, I have a bench in the paddock and we do alot of hugging, therefore I don't really want him to think he needs to be an arms length away from me at all times. The problem I think I failed to get across is that I have done years of ground work with him. He is perfect in the round pen, and in his safe zone. He stops when I stop, moves when I move. Because I am a dog trainer he will even stay, come and come to heel. He has only been off the farm 2 times in his young life, so I think he is nervous on unfamiliar ground. Taking him back into the arena he will again be perfect, so I am curious what others do when they are walking them in out of comfort zone areas, and they "misbehave" how should I respond. He seems to walk closer to me for security. Not a good place to be. But when we practice he is at a normal distance away. I know some of you will cringe at my horse being a pet,others I am sure can relate, but I also have a chicken that jumps up on my lap, what can I say
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:22 am:
Just my quick two cent's worth. I don't think I'd call it "misbehavior." He's out of his comfort zone and can't help but react as a horse would in an uncomfortable place. If he's only been off the farm twice, he hasn't had a chance to acclimate to new, different, and scary (at first) things. So I definitely wouldn't approach it as a behavior problem. A big thing to remember is that he is FOUR. He's a baby...and one baby step at a time as you introduce him to new things will lead to big steps as he gains confidence. I'd use a 12-foot lead to give myself some room while going out into the scary world. Good luck.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:36 am:
Don't mean to over simplify, but it seems to me that you have been very successful in the round pen environment ... you need only to incorporate those same techniques in other environments. Also, you can bring some of that environment to the round pen. I expose my horses to vehicles, four wheelers, garbage bags blowing in the breeze, etc. all around the round pen. But, any good trainer will tell you to get out of the round pen as early and as often as you can. I have seen many horses, young and old who are perfect in the pen or the arena, and an absolute bomb outside. You can not expect a horse to react well to conditions not familiar. It is our job to familiarize our horses to as many of those situations as we can. That is why I say training is never over, there is always much we can add to our horses knowledge and attitude. Work from the ground, and then work from the saddle only when you are ready. After all, we are not that much different than our horse in strange environments or situations. And, trust me, no good training will come from a nervous and excited trainer negotiating a strange situation with a fearful horse. The horse needs to feel your confidence and calmness to help guide him through the ordeal. Do it when you are ready, and not before. A trainer is a good idea (of course, that's what I do) but sooner or later, you are going to be riding in those situations as well and need to be prepared.
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:40 am:
Susan
I know what you are talking about. My colts (11 mo.) are angles in the pen, but outside they sometimes get nervous and try to go ahead of me or start to get out of control. I am just working on this, but what I do is use a stick and tap them in the chest when they start to go to fast then put pressure on the halter, say whoa, stop, start again. If they get too jumpy I let them go around in a circle or two then start again. Personally I think its great that your horses are also pets.I hug, kiss mine, but I let them know if I feel they are invading my space. I also had a chicken the would come in the house and sit in my lap at drink beer with me.
Erika
I agree. You can’t get off and walk them past everything that scares them or that’s what you will always be doing. And thanks for your statement about trainers. I feel the same way.
Alieen
I have been following the tragic story about your friend (so happy she is doing some better). Her story is very scary, because that could happen to any of us. Although I do not dismount when my horse is afraid of something, I feel a little spook and a freaked out spook are different and would not hesitate to dismount if I felt I was in danger. As far as mounting and dismounting often, we normally do that. We take many breaks and often have to dismount to adjust stuff. So I think that is a good thing for them to get use to. I know people who don’t dismount during the entire ride (they must have giant bladders).
Colleen
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:44 am:
Oh yea ... one other over simplification if I may ... If you are in serious danger, get the Hell off. We can always make a training session from the ground and then start all over. I don't care what they tell you, any trainer that has been doing it successfully for years has gotten off the horse from time to time.
DT
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Member:
Horsepix
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 3:44 pm:
Hi Susan,
It sounds like an issue of R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Before you get into a real sticky situation leading on the trail, I think you should go back to the ring and work on respect issues. Be sure that he understands and respects your space. When you move towards him, he should move away (whether that is backwards, sideways frontways, etc.). He should learn that his place is always an arms length (or X distance) from you. This takes time, patience and practice, but the end results are worth it. You may need to use a short whip at first to get your point across -- and perhaps carry it with you on your walks purely as a reminder.
The one thing I would change is to not have the chain under the chin. That is incredibly sensitive skin and I have know doubt that he toss his head whenever it is pinched by the chain. With my mare, I use a chain lead over the nose as I believe this to be less severe than under the chin. I also twist it once around the noseband of the halter so that the force is more on the noseband of the halter, rather than on my mare's face/skin. Without a chain, she'll walk all over me (definitely an alpha mare), but with the chain, she is happy to comply with my suggestions.
I'm not a parelli person, but I have used the parelli games to aid in respect training. You may want to look into this method or some other natural horsemanship method to help you earn the respect of your horse.
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Member:
Horsepix
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 3:56 pm:
Oops. HOw did that double post happen??
I agree too about riding the horse through the issue. If you were to keep score, then getting off to lead the horse past said scarry obstacle would be "one for the horse" in my scorebook.
I do actually have a good rope halter, but my mare does not listen to it as well as the chain. Very rarely do I have to actually put any pressure on the lead, but when I DO need to, I'm glad the chain (wrapped around the noseband, of course) is there.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 5:53 pm:
My 2 cents worth: I usually keep an uncut twine string in my pocket. (because I forget to put them in the garbage after taking them off the hay) When leading frisky youngsters that arn't paying attention I'll put that over the nose, or even over the head by running it thru the halter rings. I have a very sassy filly right now that I need to do that with outside of the arena. A few "bites" from the twine, and she has a different attitude. Better than her walking all over me. She only acts up when going away from the others, so she's just being a baby, but still respect and manners are most important. Sometimes I have the twine there, and the lead rope on the halter seperate so I can use them seperate. More to worry about in my hands though.
Lots of great info here; so Dennis should one jump off when in danger?? should we practice how to fall off correctly? Seems when I've been in the worst cases of "danger" usually water was involved!!!
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:10 pm:
Hi All, its weird, but this post really does help give us humans a bit of confidence sometimes. I took your advice Dennis and took Levi out into the drive way, on his regular halter and lead rope. We did some walks and stops, backs and placing, lots of left turns which I seem to avoid. I just swung ( did I make that word up?) my elbow into his ribs when he got too close, and whopped his nose when he played with the lead rope. Well, Golly Gee, he listened just like in the round pen I realize that the only time I take him out is on a mission towards the field of dream (fresh grass)! I will continue to work him like I do in the round pen further and further from his safe zone. Thanks everyone. I also tried what I do for dogs sometimes. I took the end of the lead rope and swung (another new word????) in a circle in front of his face, when he zoomed forward it whopped him in the nose and he DrOpped back. The big thing is you all gave me the confidence to keep working with him. Again Thanks.
Suz
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Member:
Deedles
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Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 2:31 am:
I personally don't want my horse to move away from me unless I ask. Then they have to yield.
Yielding just because you are getting close can lead to bad habits, and make them hard to halter in the pasture. My horse starting backing up when I moved towards him (he would of course, eat carrots from my hand first), and it was because he thought he was supposed to do that. In 100 acres, that can be a problem. Now he stands while I pet him and doesn't move until I ask.
Much more convenient! I also do a lot of work at liberty, with just a rope around the neck. That is great for them, when they know to follow you even though you do not control their head.
If you can get satellite TV, Dish network shows RFDTV, which has tons of horse programming which is extremely helpful and diverse. And never stop reading.
Just remember that a lot of training methods used
twenty years ago have been superseded by more modern methods that are less confrontational. (Actually they are really not that new, but have been reinterpreted for our generation.)
I would study some of the great resistance free training methods. Dorrance, Rashid, Lyons, Anderson, Parelli, Reis, Shrake, and many others will be most informative.
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 1:19 pm:
Dorothea,
I am so glad you mentioned Mark Rashid in that distinguised list. He is one of my favorites.
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 2:30 pm:
Dorothea, I just checked out your picture of your horse bowing!!! Awsome. All my "cowboy type" horse friends thought I was nutso for teaching Levi tricks. He too bows, shakes hooves, picks which hand the treats in, picks things up of the ground, plays tug a war with a rug. He only bows on one leg. How did you get your horse to basically pray??? I taught Levi to put his head down, and put his head up on command. This comes in really handy when I am working him in the round pen and he gets a little buggy, like he is going to start bucking. I just tell him to put his head up and he gets back on target. We are working on drinking out of a bottle. What other tricks does your horse know?
Suz
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Member:
Horsepix
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Posted on Monday, Apr 26, 2004 - 1:03 pm:
I've never had a problem with my horses backing away from me when I didn't want it. The point of this training was more for halterless showmanship than anything else (where the horse is required to stay at a certain distance in relation to his handler). Regardless, it translated wonderfully into a horse that was always tuned in to me, in any situation.
The same thing doesn't always work for different people, I think its important that each person experiment to find what works best for themselves and their horse in their specific situation.
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