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  Discussion on Hollow behind withers/help
Author Message
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 9:15 pm:

Hi, I Have been having saddle fit problems for ages. I bought a corbette magic saddle which is supposed to fit most horses. The gullet is supposed to conform to narrow and wide horses. No need to change it. I thought this sounds wonderful. It seemed to fit wonderful. However after 2 weeks he is starting to get a hollow, sunken, space behind his wither. Before this I had to really feel to find that groove so as not have the saddle too far forward. Now its right there. I can see the dip behind his wither/ shoulder. This is too sudden. I am worried about muscle atrophy. Should I be? Any sudden change like this bothers me. Please ,please give me your thoughts.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 9:40 pm:

Gee, Katrina . . . this change sounds really dramatic in just two weeks' time. Has your horse been DrOpping weight? How often is he being ridden in that saddle and for how long?



Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2004 - 10:17 pm:

Hi Holly, No my horse is in perfect condition. He actually has put on a few pounds and looks in top condition.He could be shown in top shows at is current state. He has been ridden in this saddle about 2-3 hours 5 days a week for the 2 weeks since I had the saddle. He did great for 1 and 1/2 weeks and has started bucking again. I am sooooo frustrated. This change in shape is really worring me. The area involved was so round before this. I found it hard to find his shoulder. Now I can see it . The saddle does not seem to pinch and definatly does not seem to tight or too large. I really thought I had the perfect saddle. No bumps or pain in his back or withers. Horses they keep us on our toes.
Member:
Gillb

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 3:15 am:

Hi Katrina, I would say if you have noticed this change in musculature since you have had the saddle, then in my mind it is without question the saddle - especially if your horse has started bucking. I have not heard of this saddle before - does it have a flexible tree or something? I can't see how a saddle can conform to any shape unless it is treeless.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 6:31 am:

Hi, this is about the e-motion tree in these saddles also a link.

SWISS SPRING TREE WITH THE NEW E - MOTION CONCEPT
We have just introduced our new E-MOTION concept to all our SWISS MADE SADDLES. The E-MOTION is an integrated spring tree and panel system like nothing on the market today. It is a COURBETTE / LEMETEX exclusive.

This new spring tree with an advanced 2-component design features a low-pommel and a semi cut-back head. The unique AIR ZONE cushion provides unparalleled flexibility and impact absorption. The soft cushioned seat with a lower center of gravity is our most comfortable yet. It allows for a wider range of E-MOTION and assists with the aids. The tree will flex at all points of pressure. Only one tree width is necessary. On wide-backed horses you can see the tree points in the front flex and adapt to the horses conformation. This spring tree is very light in weight, immune to extreme heat or cold, and retains its shape. The safety stirrup bars are recessed to eliminate the annoying bulk of stirrup leather buckles.

https://www.courbette.com/Infos/saddletrees.html
Member:
Gillb

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 7:51 am:

I had a look at the info - seems interesting! There are so many saddles with new technology coming out it's hard to keep up with them.

I am another who has had years of saddle fitting nightmares. I would only say that once I bought a saddle with CAIR panels - claiming to virtually eliminate all pressure points. Well this saddle made my horse so sore he would nearly sit down if I ran my fingers along his back. The saddle, fitted by a qualified saddle fitter, was too big and wide for my horses back, even though it fit well at the withers. It moved excessively and the CAIR panels were too hard.

I bought another make, it appeared to fit perfectly. But, within a few months my horse was again showing signs of great discomfort in his back, plus he came out in lots of hard lumps. I couldn't understand it and a brilliant saddler said she was almost sure it was to do with the point and balance straps fitted - they were jamming the saddle down at the pommel and cantle end causing too much pressure. She changed the billets to normal ones, and hey presto, all the discomfort disappeared!

All I can say is listen to your horse, he is trying to tell you something!
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 10:06 am:

Have you tried a different pad to see if that makes a difference? See if you can borrow different types of pads from friends and see if there's a difference. The Pro Choice Air pads are good and I'm loving my SaddleRight pad. My horses are definitely more comfortable with these pads and I won't use anything else.

Good luck. Hope everything works out.

Holly Z.
Member:
Horsepix

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 11:12 am:

Hey guys...a saddle can fit well for a couple months and then, with regular work, your horse's back will change. Its not that the saddle fitters don't know what they're doing. Its that your horse is a dynamic creature and the work highly effects the musculature. That's the problem with spending big bucks on saddles on a horse whose topline is not completely developed -- the saddle WILL have to be reflocked at replaced at least once during the process.

Katrina -- Did I read correctly that you're riding your horse 2-3 hours/day for 5 days/week? Are you breaking up your daily riding sessions, or are you riding in a 2-3 hour block? If your horse is not engaged and carrying himself properly, then I think it is quite easy, with that work load, for him to loose muscle in that time frame.

It sounds to me as though the saddle is only aggrevating the problem. Although a flexible tree sounds like a great solution at first, when I really think about it, there doesn't seem to be anything that would keep the pressure off the horse's withers -- especially if the rider isn't sitting balanced. Since the gullet is flexible, it would widen if the rider were sitting with her weight too far forward, thereby putting unnatural stress on the withers.

My horse is very sensitive to saddle fit and will not hesitate to buck (usually only at the canter) if the saddle pinches her back.
Member:
Rob10549

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 1:42 pm:

Hi Katrina,
I am so sorry that you're having trouble finding a saddle that fits your horse. My horse is very high withered and narrow and I have gone through 6 saddles! At one point I ordered a custom saddle made by Devoucoux. Turns out, it arrived months later, made so poorly that it wouldn't have fit ANY horse. I took it to many saddle makers, equine vets and an equine chiropractor all who said that I should not use it on my horse's back. The saddle now sits in my closet needing restuffing. The company would not cooperate and refund my money so I took them to court and won. I got a full refund, plus court costs and got to keep the saddle! Anyway, my point is that these things take time. I finally found a saddle that fit, right off the shelves of a local tack store. It's a Cliff Barnsby and I had an equine vet/chiropractor check the fit before I bought it. I also rode in it for a week. Believe it or not my horse's back is so whacky that I need to use a riser pad in addition to the saddle now that he's muscled up from his dressage training. I sympathize with your saddle woes but don't give up. There is a saddle out there that will fit your horse.
Good luck, Robin
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2004 - 6:33 pm:

Thanks for the replys.
Amy , The long rides are mainly walking on a loose rein, I trail ride 4 days a week. When I do ring work its no more than an hour and only once a week. It is also not too physical. I want my horse to have fun. So I dont think that its too much work. The trail riding is just a lazy stroll. Maybe a 5 minute trot here or there with a short canter or 2 thrown in. I dont think I sit too far forward. At least I prey I am not. I have ridden most of my life growing up on an Arabian stud. Riding since I could walk. The saddle sounded to good to be true. I am going back to another saddle that was not to bad and see if the round wither area comes back. I think I will sell the saddle. Its a shame because its a wonderful idea and does seem to fit him well. If he is atrophing behind his wither I will never forgive myself.
Holly I have tried tons of pads and will continue to do so. I do so want to try the saddleright pad. Maybe thats my next step.
Thanks for you thoughts Robin, It is so frustrating.
My real worry is why I can now see the dip behind his shoulder after only a few weeks.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 6:50 am:

Holly' out of the air pad and the saddleright pad. Which would you recomend?
Thank you,
Katrina
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 7:32 am:

Katrina,
Judging from your profile, I suppose your horse is an Arabian.
I am not familiar with the backs of Arabians, but from what I've read or heard, I'd expect a "one tree fits all" saddle to fit him too narrow, no matter how elastic the tree is. It is, still, a stiff frame.
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2004 - 8:07 am:

Thanks christos. If it sounds to good to be true it usually is.
Member:
Horsepix

Posted on Monday, Apr 26, 2004 - 1:17 pm:

Well, that is an interesting situation. It must be that the saddle puts weird pressure on the muscles behind his withers. Has his head carriage been any different (even at the walk) since you switched to that flexible tree saddle?
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Apr 26, 2004 - 1:49 pm:

Hi Amy,
No he seems comfortable in it except at the canter. It is a close contact saddle. I have had him back in the wintec cair for the last week and the wither area is filling out nicely again. The wintec leaves dry patchs on the withers and ruffles his hair slightly on his back. which is why I bought the courbette magic close contact. The magic saddle leaves even sweat marks. It is too weird. I am buying a saddleright pad to see if that can keep the saddle off his wither more. I do have at least 3-4 inchs between pommel and his wither. Plenty of clearance under both saddles. I am trying to decide which out of the 2 saddles to keep. I did inform Courbette of the problem and they said not to worry as he muscles up it will change. My horse is already muscled. He is in peak condition. We just placed in a hunter pace and he didnt hardley break a sweat. I am thinking that the hollowing behind the wither is causing more damage than the other saddle. I am not sure though, thats why I am trying to get opinions.
Katrina
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Monday, Apr 26, 2004 - 4:34 pm:

Katrina,
Out of the two pads for this type of horse, I would recommend the saddle right. The air pad, while very good is also very thin and may result in too much pressure. The Saddleright is thicker and more elastic and my QH who also was developing a hollow behind the withers just loves it and he's filling out again in that area.

This is such a hard question to find the right answers to especially since pads and saddles are not exactly being given away.

Best of luck. Keep us posted on your progress.

Holly
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Apr 26, 2004 - 5:04 pm:

Thanks Holly, I just ordered a saddleright pad. I'll try it on both saddles and see what happens.
Katrina
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2004 - 9:35 pm:

I used an air pad on my big gelding when he began to have a hollow there after age 21. I tried at least 4 other pads, but the air pad was the only one that really worked. It has 4 separate inflatable sections, so you can tune it according to the horse's current muscling. He went beautifully forward in it, it was a real find. It's called the Korrector, and it's sold in the UK and probably in the US somewhere too. It wasn't cheap, but it was night and day for my horse. If you decide that's an alternative, or the saddleright pad doesn't solve your problem, I'd sell my Korrector pad at a discount as used tack (it's in very good condition) - our other 2 horses don't need it.
Melissa
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2004 - 6:34 am:

Melissa I did read about these pads. Let me know what you want for it. Do you still have instructions for fitting it. As I remember you fill the air while on the horse. I will try the saddle right pad first but its nice to know about your pad.
Thanks Katrina
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