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Discussion on What does it mean when gelding DrOps his "manhood" while groundtraining?
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 8, 2007 - 9:40 pm:
Levi has been out of work for quite some time because of his WLD, and my lack of time. We have begun just working up and down the driveway, stopping, backing, sidepassing, etc. When I begin working on putting pressure on his girth to make him revolve around in a tight corner, and cross over his front legs, etc. He DrOps, swishes his tail on occasion, and gets lippy. I am sure he is being a snot, but why the penis DrOpping, and what should I do about this?
He also will not bend his neck, nor look at me, until I drag his face down to me and make him look me in the eyes. He has been a pasture ornanment for a very long time. HELP!
suz
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 8, 2007 - 10:02 pm:
Susan I have also noticed Hank has been "DrOpping" every time I saddle him since starting back to ridden work. He never use to do that before all the time off he had. I have been marking it up to being relaxed? Doesn't sound like Levi is relaxed tho so I don't know? If you don't like him DrOpping tap him on the belly a few times, that usually puts it back in hiding. It sounds as if he is testing the waters to see just who is boss. Don't get frustrated he'll come around. Stay steady and firm.
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 11:39 am:
Susan,
I'd address the stiff neck before continuing with turning on the behind. Use a rope halter and do flexes on both sides. Flexing is a more basic exercise than is turning on the behind, so get the foundation better established.
You're post suggests you're not rewarding, releasing pressure, enough. Or often enough. I've seen horses that will completely shut down if they weren't rewarded often enough. How often you reward is horse dependent, some just need more than others.
Don't drag his face anywhere, most horses will resent that, have the patients to wait for him to give.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 1:03 pm:
Thanks Diane and Alden for responding.
Diane, this is only on ground work, I have only ridden him once since his last trim. He did pretty good, till the racket ball, jumped out to scare him into some silly crow hops, but he settled back in. When I groom him he DrOps, plus his head hangs down in contentment. This is different.
Alden, excuse my verbage, I don't drag his head anywhere, if anything he drags me. He is excellent at bending when we just do this as an exercise. I will point to his side, he bends, I touch his chest he flexes at the pole, I pick up his front leg, and we do stretches. Since I raised him from a 4 month old baby, I can tell that he is being stubborn! He has been trained to lower his head to put on and take off the halter, etc.
If indeed, he is not confused, but resisting, should I take the tail swishing and DrOpping as dominant posturing from him? And should I ignore this posturing, or correct it? And what is the proper way to correct it. I am not a hitter of animals.
He has been doing this turning thing for years now, however, I used either the end of the lead rope to direct him or the long stick. I was told to do the pressure thing, to simulate leg pressure. Maybe I am pushing to hard????? I release the pressure, the moment he moves his feet, and pet him on his whithers, praising him.
As with the dog training that I do, I read their eyes. He has many expressions, sometimes nervous, sometimes content, sometimes (oh yeah, make me  )Sometimes I am tired, or bored. I think that is why I want him to look at me, when he is being stubborn. He will also, nip at me when he thinks he is done working, so this disrespect, is not being confused, I do snap him in the mouth with the lead rope, when he nips.
I have very spoiled rotten animals.
suz
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 4:04 pm:
Susan,
Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. If you want him to look at you, make him work when he does not. The very moment he turns any attention to you, let him stop and rest.
Good luck,
Linda
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 4:40 pm:
Susan, Hank is trained to move to pressure, behave, and respect me. He is a level 2 parelli horse, which belive me they move when looked at!
Since he had all that time off he has "tested" to see if I still remember. I have to laugh at him sometimes it's so funny, but yes it is all coming back to him and me. DON"T get frustrated or impatient that will work against you. Try to work with him daily and consistently and he will return
Linda is right about sending him off and working when he is disrespectful and rest when he does the right thing. I did that to Hank when we started back to get his attention, I use a 10 ft. lead rope and soon as the "wrong" ans. showed up I would send him of in a circle. When I let him stop and defiance was still there...off he went again, usually bucking! This took a few days but he is back for the most part....he always has been a bit of a challenge. I NOW find his antics rather funny..he use to scare me to death and he knew it.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 7:41 pm:
Hi Susan
I was taught that the "DrOpping of the manhood" was a central nervous system response to stress...stress increases blood flow to various parts of the body and....(need i go on?)...
your horse not looking at you is also a symptom of stress.. this kind of stress is like a brace or resentment.. he's been out of work a long time so he gets used to doing his own thing, and then gets told he has to suddenly go back to work... he doesnt understand the human logic in all this... and sometimes treatments for various injuries can cause some additional resentment/stress/brace...
personally i dont address the neck, i address the part of the spine specifically in front of the hindquarters... get the hindquarters moving(and crossing over) so that the spine loosens up...keep the horse from moving forward into your space as you do this...the feet and spine are directly connected, and the brain is a direct connection to that.. loosen up spine and loosen up brain... get him to move his feet correctly, then stop and release.. make sure he stands square... keep his attention by a slight jiggle of rope when his attention wanders for more than 5 seconds...the length of the release is of more importance than anything else, as it will emphasize to the horse that the most relaxing area is with you, not away from you.... generally, after ever interaction where you put pressure on him and ask him to move his body correctly, then you need to stand and wait until the pressure of that interaction comes off him- this is expressed by the chewing, licking and hopefully yawning (the ultimate stress relief)... the more comfortable a horse is with the human, the sooner this happens, and the bigger the response.. done just right it gets to wear the horse sees the human and automatically relaxes...
there's a whole lot more you can do but that's where i'd start if i had a horse doing what you describe...
good luck
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 9:00 pm:
Hi all, here's my question for tonight
We did the same routine in the driveway tonight. Hubby rode his new bicycle in with his red shirt and pointy head. This time, Levi alerted, stood steady, and then approached the bike to sniff it. Tom rode back and forth in the driveway, and Levi munched on grass. After a few laps he could have cared less. We then followed the bike up and down the driveway. That seems like a pass, huh?
I repeated our cross over and turns, and although the penis DrOpped he did not resist, bent nicely, nice eyes. What I did different was, just put a finger on his girth, and boom, circled around. When I ride him and get nervous, I will squeeze on tight, making him jittery. I forgot that both trainers said that he need very little leg pressure to perform. Do you think that me putting on the mega push on the girth made him nervous? And is it Ok for him to just move so easily with such light pressure. He was a very good boy tonight, but then I too, made myself relax, and "be patient, right Alden?"
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 9:57 pm:
hi susan
a horse is so sensitive that he can feel a fly on his side and a storm approaching 20 miles away...using a lot of pressure is kind of like using a machete to remove a fly from a friend's forehead...kinda overkill... if a horse needs that much pressure, then that horse has become dull to the human, because that same horse feels that same fly and reacts to it, just like the more sensitive horse...
a lot of pressure can make him nervous, or very resentful and get him stressed...how would you feel if i repeatedly asked you to do something for me by hauling on you, when you were perfectly willing to do that exact same thing with just a touch from me, or maybe just a word?...
i rarely ever use any physical pressure on my horses, whether on the ground or under saddle.. its just not necessary... just like the horse feels the storm from 20 or more miles away, that same horse feels my intention, especially if i'm only 10 ft away, or better yet, directly connected to the horse cause i'm riding...
as long as the horse does not overrespond to what you are asking, then that sensitivity is exactly what you want.. what i mean by overrespond is that a light touch or light intention should get a light response- a few steps so to speak... if the horse whirls sideways then the horse has overreacted to what you have asked... that's not so good...
good luck....
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 9, 2007 - 10:30 pm:
Hey Melissa, thanks for the comments. Up until now, Levi would move around, voluntarily with just placing the long stick out to his one side to move one way, and vice versa. I have been advised that I need to use girth pressure on groundwork, to simulate the leg pressure. I think I was just doing just what you said, pushing him in a nagging way.
Because I train dogs not horses, Levi actually does all obedience commands, (except sit, but we will work on it!)
I have him stay at the end of a 20 foot rope, call him to come, then tell him to "come to heel", and he spins around to the heel position. Doesn't help him learn to be a horse much. But it is kinda fun! He bows, shakes, crosses his front legs when I ask him if he has to "pee".
He really needs to get away from the barn and home more, to build up both of our confidences.
He does not whirl, just makes a complete circle one way, then back. He will make a 360 with front feet planted and also with the back feet planted. All this without me touching him. I think the pressure thing must just be confusing. But I really want to get both of us riding again.
thanks
again.
suz
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Friday, Aug 10, 2007 - 2:17 am:
Hi all,
I have mares, but I take care of 4 geldings 8 mos out of the year. The boys seem to DrOp when they are comfortable and I have no problem dealing with their sheaths. I have noticed that the older ones have recurrent swelling that comes and goes.
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Friday, Aug 10, 2007 - 11:35 am:
Just had to post this. DrOpping is not only in response to stress (I don't know if that is true or not, I have never heard that), but in response to relaxation. My gelding DrOps when being groomed and massaged. I see lots of geldings DrOp after a relaxing bath or meal.
It is not necessarily a negative thing. I am not saying it isn't in this situation, but you can't say it is just in response to stress.
Alicia
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 3:09 pm:
Lots of good thoughts here. If a stud DrOps, it's a sure sign of distraction. One of my geldings used to DrOp under saddle (a previous owner had cleaned him every time he presented himself, so I understood it as a demand for service.) I found that habit went away as he learned to pay attention to his job. So relaxation needs to be working relaxation, not "hanging out" thinking about something else relaxation.
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 5:29 pm:
Hi All, My hubby was watching me riding Levi in the round pen, and he said he had a "stiffy" he called it. Excuse the bluntness, not really relaxed. He said when I took off trotting, it kinda banged on his tummy and then he finally sucked it in. Whats up with that???
Is that just relaxed, or happy to see me?????
suz
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 6:06 pm:
I honestly think that means he wasn't paying attention to you or his work. More specifically, he was entertaining himself on the job. All male horses masturbate from time to time, unless they are miserable or in agony. So while this tells you that he isn't in pain or fear for his life, it's not a great indicator of a working attitude.
In my stallions, I consider this a "gateway behavior" to other unacceptable activities while in work, so I make sure they know never to do it under saddle or in a halter (unless they are breeding/being collected). You can break the habit by helping him connect it to immediate hard work. :-)
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