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Discussion on Balancing off the reins
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 5:11 pm:
I am a rein balancer and don't know how to quit! I have been working on this for 2 yrs. and just can't seem to quit. Hank hates it and will show his displeasure...don't blame him.
I ride him both english and western. I have taken lessons and actually one thing that helped me was jumping. I KNEW I couldn't snag the mouth then and concentrated very hard not to.
Today I decided to try a curb bit on him for some refinement, He has never had a curb on before and I have managed to keep him very soft mouthed somehow. He was very good until I started balancing on the reins again! He tossed his head and said quit it! I quit and he was very good.
How can I kick this habit.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 5:38 pm:
Hi Diane,
Good for you admitting to this vice!
It would be helpful to know whether it comes from nervousness, lack of an independent seat, or both.
The fix is lunge line lessons w/o reins. Put your hands on your thighs at first, then try resting them on the cantle for up and down transitions.
For normal riding, attach a bucking strap through your D-rings (or rig something, anything-- a rope on the horn). Hook your thumbs through it. This will also keep you from working backwards with your hands. The objective is to have you use the strap as a "security grab" rather than your horse's mouth. But it's better to retrain yourself to get security and control from your seat and balance. The strap is just a transition trick, where lungeing isn't an option.
Make sure, btw, that you aren't resting the weight of your forearms on the reins. The way to identify and correct this (common) habit is to run the rein through the top of your hand, rather than the bottom. It's amazing how this small change can alter a rider and a horse.
In my own (not godlike) experience, these ingrained habits need a pretty aggressive approach to eliminate. Sounds like you and your horse are both ready though. Good luck!
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Member:
1roper
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 5:47 pm:
I would tend to agree with the above poster, however, I'd go one step further, and say that bareback on the lungeline would be even better. The problem is that you're using your hands, and hence your horse's mouth, for balance. Learning to really use your quads, groin, and hamstrings for balance, and getting stable through your core will help with the hand issue. I would say you need to get lessons from someone that can put you on the lungeline and *let* you know when you lose your three point position, or when you get your body out of whack. Realize, that you didn't get this way overnight, and it's not going to get undone overnight either.
I give lots of lessons, and this is one of the places where people have THE most trouble.
Good luck!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:03 pm:
Thanks Elizabeth, I don't know what causes me to do this. I have done the louge line thing and do fine.
I knew this problem existed so I have been riding Hank in a side pull so as not to "rip" on his mouth.
Once I thought I had it under control we went back into a o ring snaffle. Hank is VERY well trained and as my trainer said demands you ride correctly.
He can make that horse look so good!
I on the other hand am not that well trained, and have actually brought the poor guy down a notch with this rein balancing, I also lean more than I should! which could be part of the problem.
When I rode him with the curb I kept the halter and lead on just in case, I did have to use that a couple times, because I wasn't trusting my hands.
The rein thru the top of the hand sounds like something to try!
The funny thing is some days I am right on and he is wonderful...I just am not consistent at all. Thanks
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:15 pm:
Jennifer you are probably right too. The trainer said I NEED to learn to loosen my hip. We worked for mos. on this. At that time Hank did scare me and I was very tense, we have worked thru those issues, he does not scare me anymore. I am still tight thru the hip sometimes tho. When I try to "relax my hip" he works much better and I don't "snag" the mouth so much., but then I am "slumped" over?
I have rode bareback a good part of my life and I don't think it is my balance, even the trainer said I CAN SIT a horse well.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:28 pm:
Hi Diane,
Sometimes it's easier to focus on getting right instead of figuring out why you're going wrong. Leaning is a big problem too-- it will pitch the horse off balance, and may well make the grabbing worse.
I still think a lunge line is the way to go. Back to basics! It may also help to have someone videotape you riding. It's just amazing what we can see in ourselves that we may not feel (or that may feel normal).
As a sidenote, I would not suggest riding in a curb until this problem is solved. While it's tempting to try to move forward and work this problem around the edges, it's likely to make trouble for your horse and confirm this habit even more deeply. Sounds like refinement will come when your position is more consistently correct.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:41 pm:
Thanks I am not going to ride him in the curb, it was just an experiment. I did have someone video tape me and goodness, my hip is VERY tight....not bareback tho. My bad habits seem much worse in a saddle.
I Think I am aware of my problems...just can't solve them for some reason! With Hank going thru his lameness issues we haven't worked a lot lately. Back to basics I will go....AGAIN Thanks
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:45 pm:
Oh I totally recommend Clinton Anderson's riding with confidence you will never again use your reins for balance as you will trust your horse so much you don't even need them. Using your reins is not a balance issue unless you are a true beginner and this is not the case with you. Its a fear issue.Even if your not scared you don't trust your body to behave. Can you DrOp your reins and make your horse go where you want with your seat? You don't need reins to ride a horse. I really don't think its balance I think its a security thing. The reason your trainer says loosen your hip is because you are tense and admit it or not your brain reminds you of tense even if you think your not our body's , are amazing. If You don't believe me about the tapes (i would guarantee them if I sold them). Then I would use imagination, Before you go to sleep at night , every time you think about riding imagine yourself in perfect harmony having the perfect ride you and your horse are one. when you ride think about your perfect ride you had in your head. Believe me its works.
PS I lent my Clinton tapes to riders that have been riding 20 plus years and they are hooked.
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:46 pm:
Ditto with Elizabeth, no curb bits until you're fixed  That just isn't fair to the horse.
Another way that may help would be to ride with just a rope halter and lead line. Don't tie the loose end into the halter, basically the line is just to bend and stop the horse if you get into trouble. Although a well trained horse will neck rein with one line
Now ride in a round pen or arena
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 6:55 pm:
Another thought there are music tapes that dressage riders use to get your hips with the beat. Fun, its fun to ride it should never be work if it is you are tense. Sing when you ride. I did that when mine was a 4 year old basket case. I now can ride him like an old police horse thru traffic or anywhere. Still havent gotten the galloping with other horses down pat but I will get there. I think you are better than you give yourself credit for. Sometimes instructers tend to make you feel um less than good and more nervous . Been there done that.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:20 pm:
the only thing i might add to everyone else's great ideas is to ride with colored reins- the "rainbow" reins.. they will make it very easy to see that you are tightening up on the reins, esp. if you can keep your hands "positioned" properly...
you might want to check to make sure that your saddle really fits you right... if the twist is too wide and the saddle doesnt fit you properly it can cause you too tighten up, especially since you say you dont have this problem bareback... maybe try a few different saddles to see if this is the case... i dont know how many times i've had riders with various position problems that other instructors had tried to fix that were fixed by just a change in saddle...even when the other saddle "appeared" to fit just fine...
good luck with everything... having identified the problem is the first step in conquering it.. you'll be fine...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:32 pm:
Katrina Yes that is the odd thing, I can ride Hank bridleless (in an arena) and do a barrel pattern at a trot...just with leg and body position. We really do trust each other. I think I mentioned before he is a level 2 Parelli horse...very sensitive. When his training ended he was doing self carriage with out a bit. Ummm I have kind of ruined that, but we are getting it back. Our lateral work is good. He leg yields wonderfully.
Alden he bends to a stop with halter and rope, I can ride him anywhere with just a halter and rope and maybe that is a big part of my problem, I really haven't rode him with a bit a lot...trying to develop a soft hand. It has helped a lot but I just can't work thru being "soft" all the time.
That was the trainers biggest instruction, he was always yelling RELAX your hip AND SOFTEN. I worked for this trainer, he is VERY good and gives clinics around the midwest. He helped me alot and loved Hank. He did not make me nervous.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:33 pm:
One thing that helps me when I get "stuck" over him (as my trainer puts it), is to look up. I mean really look up. Pick a spot 50 feet ahead of you and think, "ride to that spot". Go to your instincts and use your sense of feel to "ride to that spot". It really helps me to just use my aids the right way and get "unstuck". I am not sure if I explained that well enough.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:38 pm:
Melissa I have been wondering about the saddle, the seat is too big for me. I know my husband wouldn't let me get a new one at this time. I have a saddle with a smaller seat that fits me but not the horse.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:44 pm:
Hi Diane,
Going back to the lunge line is always a good idea. I would add that if you feel your hips are tight, add some exercises on/off the lunge such as these, first at walk, then trot then canter:
~While in the saddle, peddle your legs almost as if you are riding a bike. Concentrate on not just bringing your knee up, but swinging your whole leg around from the hip
~Swing you legs back and forth, loosely, from the hip
~Pull your legs, from the upper thigh/hip, as far off the horse as you can, as if someone had hold of each foot and was pulling you in two
I do these as I'm walking around at the beginning of our warm up, while on a long rein. They not only loosen up my hips but really deepen my seat. If I feel I start to tighten up during the ride, I'll add them in during trot or canter. But, always when I am on a loose rein, otherwise it's easy to fall back on hanging on the rein as you try to balance during the stretches. Lunge line is perfect for these because you can always hang onto the saddle, particularly when first trying them.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:47 pm:
Diane, you haven't ruined anything. Dont even think like that, you are great. We as horse lovers always have moments of self doubt that is what keeps us learning. Doesnt matter if you have ridden 1 year or 50 we are always learning. I dont think you use the reins as much as you say or your horse would react. Does he? Mine would let me go flying he is such a great instructor talk about being careful to not do the wrong thing?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:47 pm:
Gwen you hit another problem, on a circle I do look down, I think that is why I fall in. The trainer said when he first started riding he had long hair and tied it to his collar to keep his head up....that guy is such a balanced,light rider I use to watch him for hours in his training sessions amazed.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:58 pm:
diane,
when you ride in the saddle that fits you do you have the same problem? if no, can you get a saddle fitter out to get the saddle to fit, or pad it if its not too bad? how about selling the saddle that doesnt fit and using that money to buy a saddle that fits you and the horse... or, failing that, selling the husband?..*LOL*
if you dont have the problem bareback but you do have it under saddle than i would look to the saddle first... i'm not saying that lunge lessons and all the other ideas arent great and wont help you, but you might be pounding on a brick wall with a spork... you'll eventually get thru but it will take longer...
btw-to me, any trainer that yells "relax your hip and soften" will only tense you up.. telling/yelling at you to do something doesnt get it done... showing you how to do it does...
good luck...
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 7:59 pm:
and one other thing diane
maybe you need to stop worrying and just ride!!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:00 pm:
Fran I don't have anyone around here to run the luge line. I do that when I ride bareback, maybe that's why we don't have as much of a problem then.
It would seem I need to work on relaxing hip, keeping head up, colored reins...good idea. and maybe my hands will soften!
One more question that may seem dumb, but are your shoulders suppose to be back? One lady I know always says I need to put my shoulders back, but that seems to tighten my body..and she always looks tense on her horse. The trainer I worked for never had his shoulders back...just what I would call relaxed. He always wins in the shows.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:13 pm:
Melissa we do just ride and have quite a bit of fun, but I like to work on this stuff and Hank is just so good at it, it is fun! I don't worry about it, we will never show, I just find it very interesting stuff. I never liked arena work until Hank, but boy when you get that collected canter, half pass, counter canter, yes we have done that well! I WANT to do one tempis with him...He's capable(once I get those feet under control) and get him back in shape. and my hands back under control
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:30 pm:
Diane, there are no dumb questions!
ideally your shoulders should be in line with your head, hips and heels...
this will allow the muscles in your spine to be relaxed, which allows you to keep everything relaxed (if you so choose)... think of everything like building blocks that balance on top of each other... get one out of line and the muscles have to tense up to keep you from toppling over!..
they should not be tensed or forced back, just allowed to rest in balance...if you feel like they are dragging you forward my favorite imagery is to feel like my upper arms are hanging down behind me... this gets my elbows back, which gets my shoulder in the correct position, but keeps me very loose...
good luck... i think you'll be fine
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:31 pm:
Diane . . . I just got home and checked my INBOX and thought that surely there must be a problem with the HA site as there are about 20 e-mails in a row about "Balancing off the Reins!"
Your 8:00 post took the words out of my mouth. We balance off the reins when we are insecure, and we are insecure if we feel we are going to lose balance, and we feel that we are going to lose balance if our shoulders are forward and our hips are locked (unless we have very strong thighs and knees). Looking down puts your shoulders forward, even the slightest bit.
I do recommend that you get someone to video tape you. Also, when on the longe line, I would ask that your reins be taken away (not off the horse as I know of a friend who was seriously injured while being longed by a very competent trainer . . . She didn't have any bridle on the horse, and the horse spooked and took off dragging the trainer and galloped full speed around the indoor arena) so keep your bridle on the horse in case you have a need for more control, but close your eyes, DrOp your stirrups or go bareback and hold your arms out to the side at shoulder level . . . like an airplane . . . and just walk . . . See if you can do all the gaits with your arms out . . . It will help keep your shoulders back and your weight over your seatbones. At the canter, you even want your shoulders behind your hips so your hips can lead and follow the horse's movement. It will take lots of practice, but maybe not as much as you think if you already know how to ride bareback. My guess is that you ride bareback, but maybe hunch forward at the faster gaits and really use your knees and thighs rather than be like a "Weeble" and balance on your seat.
I tell my students, "Weebles Wobble, but they don't fall down" and for them to pretend that their seats are full of sand. When we lean forward we are taking our tail out of the saddle, and if we are doing it for a purpose, such as jumping or racing, that's different, but for most riding, we need to keep our seats down in the saddle and follow the horse's movement with our hips. That's when we really seem to be ONE with the horse . . . when our lower body can move freely and follow the horse's movement.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:32 pm:
I'm always being told "shoulders back/down/relaxed." Here's a quote for you... I try to recite it before I ride, but usually I forget by the time I get in the saddle! I'm hoping I'll have a chance to get to this...
"Deepest, flat knee, low heel, and a bottom that never left the saddle, always elastically flexed abdominal and back muscles, and gently swinging hips with upright head carriage and elastically absorbing shoulders, elbows, and wrists achieved such a steady, closed, elastic contact between horse and rider that a yielding of the poll and back was the automatic consequence."
(Ein Reiterleben, 1957, 66, translation: TR)
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 8:47 pm:
Gees Aileen that quote describes exactly how my trainer rides! Beauty in motion, and easier said than done.
Holly I think you are right I do use my thighs...not knees tho. Unfortunately I don't have access to this trainer anymore and no one for the lunge line. When I was at the trainers we did do the exercises you described. The trainer always said I have to much of a driving seat and tend to get ahead of the horse. He also said shoulders and elbows should be like rubber bands going with the horse... here is where my problem lies! Cripes I have a lot to work on
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 9:08 pm:
I think it's from Centered Riding that Sally Swift says hold the reins like you are holding 2 baby birds. Hold too tight, their little heads will pop right off!! (those are my words, don't think she says that in the book..or does she?) Too loose, and the birds fly away.
If your horse responds to neck reining, and your weight shifts and leg aids, I would ride in an arena or round pen, and lay the reins on the saddle. You can easily reach down and grab one if you get in trouble. Then, RELAX! Sing, hum, do the things suggested above like pedal your feet and all those things.
At the walk, relax and see how loose you can get. Feel him swinging under you, see if you can feel which foot is off the ground. At this point, don't worry about steering. Can you stop, and go, no reins? I bet you can! With body shifts, and letting your breath out to stop. Lift your energy up and ask for a back, shift your weight back. It's really neat to back a horse, no reins.
I think the hardest thing is to tell someone DON't BRACE UP. Your hands, your body...because the minute you think about it, you do just what you are trying not to do.
I think once you feel all the softness in Hank, and he relaxes you will relax. Then, only then, pick up the reins. Keep them "loopy soft". You may find it easier to ride first with one hand, I find that more relaxing. It's easy to get the other hand up there in a second if needed.
BTW, I don't think I could ever learn something about riding with someone telling my directions. I have to feel it, visualize it.
Just be ONE with the HORSE. Trust him. He'll trust you then.
I know, easy to say all this, hard to do. YOU will do it though!
I think from your last post, you are trying to hard to remember all the technique. Just sit and feel the horse move. Maybe for a week just do that at the walk.
Good luck, keep us posted what helped. I am trying to teach my husband there is more to riding than boots and reins.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 9:12 pm:
Here's another one I found in the August Dressage Today:
Marja Guercin Riding with The Maestro Nuno Oliveria
"If you ride in the academic (impeccable) position, the horse will naturally fall into collection. Hand and leg aids are secret. Close your fingers. Push your waist forward. Be light on your horse. Move the button of your jacket toward your hands. Legs and shoulders back. If your shoulders are stiff, your hands will be, also. Relax the waist, be light in the hands and follow. Keep legs soft but close to the horse...”
You have wonderful input here and I'm learning from this thread too just sharing some quotes that help me
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 9:14 pm:
Like Melissa says . . . don't think so much about it. Don't think, "I have so much to work on." Trust your balance on the horse, as Angie says.
A good exercise for you might also be to have someone blindfold you and bridle you up with a bit in your mouth (or resting on the space between your thumbs and forefingers, and have someone else behind you being the rider. This will help you "be Hank" for awhile.
Did you ever take ballet or gymnastics? I can always tell a beginner student who has had dance or gymnastics . . . or is a downhill skier . . . Their bodies "know" how to find that perfect balance and trust the horse's movement. You might also rry some balancing exercises. Standing on one leg, walking a balance beam, exercising on a big exercise ball.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 9:24 pm:
Angie We CAN stop, back, turn with no reins! Put those reins in my hand and like you said brace up.
When we start our arena work I do walk around with one hand reins looped, stop, start, back...wonderful. I too am better at watching than taking directions, I learned alot more watching lessons than taking them. When we are trail riding we have no problems for the most part. It's the circles. Who would have thought a "pretty" canter circle could be so complicated! I have read centered riding and picked up some good tips in there. Hank doesn't get tense until I start fussing with those darn reins. I do trust him. I think some of this stems from my childhood of riding hard mouthed ponies. Hank is So soft mouthed and sensitive to aids that it makes it hard for me, don't get me wrong I am loving learning how to ride soft, it's quite an awakening.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 9:39 pm:
Diane .. the first thing you need to do is quit thinking about the wrong way and focus on what you know is right.The more you think of what you are doing wrong, the more you will do it wrong. Instead of thinking "don't be so tense" think "man I am relaxed."
Work on your seat and relaxing your legs. Leaning on the reins is usually a result of being too tight in the saddle and not moving with the horse. Practice first at a walk moving your legs in unison with your horses legs. Then move up to the trot and do the same thing .. kind of dance with your horse, if you will.
Finally, I like to ride with the reins coming up from the bottom of my hands and hold them in my thumb and index finger tips only. Then, you are only allowed to move the reins with your ring and pinkie fingers.
You are getting a lot of good advice from all above .. just keep practicing and thinking positive.
DT
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 10:02 pm:
Thanks for all the ideas. I can't wait to try them.
Aileen love those quotes...so true.
Dennis I probably am focusing on doing the wrong things...I will think positive, I do know this stuff... just having a hard time implementing it, and definitely needed some reminders
Holly my job as meter reader produces more balancing acts than anyone could ever imagine! I did do gymnastics many moons ago.
All my horse friends ride by the reins and have a hard time understanding what I am trying to accomplish. Until they experience a truly soft horse, they don't know what they are missing. I hope Hanks feet hold together I can''t wait to get started again. Thanks
 
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 10:05 pm:
Just one last comment before I just read because everyone else is right... I am notorious for thinking to much when I ride... but re: Holly's comment on the blindfold, I tried just closing my eyes for a few strides at a time, cuz I was chicken to put a blindfold on, you will be amazed at the feeling
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 - 10:21 pm:
"Keep a leg on each side and yer mind in the middle" Don't know where I heard this, but it's not from me. I use it a lot when I get in a fuzz.
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 1:01 am:
Ok, found the source. Mark Rashid "Horsemanship Through Life", pg. 139. Leilani
PS Loved this book.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 6:36 am:
Leilani, I read Mark Rashids "considering the horse" I really enjoyed that book it was very entertaining and quite insightful. I will have to look into the book you mention.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 6:44 am:
Another tip for loosening the hips. When in the saddle swing both legs way forward then out to the side it will open your hips and put you deep in the saddle and put you in the correct position.. Then wrap your whole leg gently around your horse and keep them there even your ankle. Dont worry about heels down at this time, just gently hug your horse with your whole legs as he walks your hips cant close if your whole leg is gently around the horse dont even worry if your knees are slightly off the saddle at this time. This is just an exersise to put you in motion with your horse. Worring about heels down can make you tense never push your heels down ever, bring your toes up instead this is after you have mastered the open hips. Do this walking holding the buckle. It should be very easy if you can ride bareback. I have a better seat bareback also. I do this exersise everytime I get on it puts you really deep and relaxs you tremendously. Keep shoulders straight down not back(another tenser) Keep your head tall. But just do one of these things at a time then put them together. the rein part will come once you can do these little exersises. If you try and do your hips and reins at the same time it will be too much thinking causing you to tense. Works for me. I still do it after riding a long time.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 9:38 am:
Diane,
You can do all THAT without the reins?! Do you have any idea how wonderful, how advanced that is? You should be smiling from ear to ear on that wonderful horse! Smile big, and that will relax you big time!
I also hold my reins like Dennis says above. The only time I have problems is holding 4 reins because I am using more fingers.
Katrina,
Love your tip above. I am going to post that one above my saddle to help me.
Another thing that will help is buy an exercise ball. Sit on it at the computer, and while watching tv. When you can balance on that, feet off the floor, you've found your center of balance. It's also great for moving around on. Do big circles while seated, and do 4 corners too. Move your hips 1,2, 3, and 4th corner. Then side to side, back & forth. I use my ball for those exercises. Once in awhile, I even do some of the exercises that I bought the ball for.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 10:50 am:
Diane,
Such great tips here, I am learning too. I have the same problem you have, and only occasionally, as you mention. For me, the problem lies more in my daily life. I have found that stress, and sometimes it is a woman thing caused by hormones, cause my body to get tense before I even walk into the stable. I read about doing a body "self-inventory". That is to check your body mentally and look for tension. Usually, my back is tight and my shoulders and neck are tense. This happens from my job, my crazy family, and sometimes just because of nothing I can put a finger on. However, if I ride my horse when I feel like this, it will be a bad day and I will be grabbing his mouth too much. To combat this, I mentally relax each body part, starting with my lower back. If any of my tension is actual muscle tightness caused by work, I take ibuprofen to relax the muscles. I try to smile more!!! Amazing how much a smile can do to relax a person. Some days I realize it is just not a good day to ride because my stress load is too much.
While I am riding, I tell myself to "trust the horse" and I ride for a long time on a loose rein mentally thinking of becoming one with him until I relax.
I believe riding is a great stress reliever, but I take it in steps now instead of thinking the riding alone will relieve the stress.
Linda
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Member:
terrilyn
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 11:28 am:
I think the biggest help to me in becoming a balanced rider (something to which I still aspire because I'm not completely consistent) is being fit. Pairing a regular gym routine that includes weight training and cardio with riding has been of incredible benefit to improving my overall "feel" in the saddle and my ability synchronize all my body parts to communicate to my horse. Though I don't do Pilates, I understand that is one of the most beneficial routines riders can engage in to increase core strength, and I find that's what I need more than anything else in the saddle. As well, I find that fitness gives me a mental edge when riding as well as a bit more confidence because I'm already used to pushing myself when working out.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 3:06 pm:
Yes we do better with out reins (in an arena). That should tell me something!. Our walk, trot is GOOD, the mouth grabbing starts in the canter. NO I am not scared in the least...I am balancing off the reins, on the turns (but not always) Hank is VERY sensitive to aids. We can do great leg yields at the trot and canter, side pass down a fence line...etc It's the darn corners! I will work on relaxing and quit "trying" so hard. I know it isn't Hank. I am leaning AND over steering, His reaction to that is smaller and smaller circle...it is kinda funny....We can canter a tiny circle but not a big one lol.
Jumping REALLY helped me because I know better than to snag the mouth then, we would jump land on the lead I wanted to go and canter a circle pretty good usually. Now with the hoof problems I don't want to jump him for awhile (he LOVES jumping). He has NEVER refused any jump, however my skills only go 3'3".
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 3:20 pm:
For the canter ,Put a dollar bill under your butt and focus on keeping it there. For the corners put more weight on your outside stirrup . I tend to do the same thing. I was told once you are riding a horse not a motor cycle.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 3:21 pm:
Keep your eyes ahead at least 1/4 way around the circle in front of you, letting your eyes trace the path you want his feet to take. Think, "Forward, Forward," not "turn, turn."
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 3:43 pm:
Holly you are right! When we do are good canter circles I am dead center and don't even move my hands. My problem starts when I lean..I will quit thinking about turning.
Katrina I have tried the weight in the outside stirrup, but Mr. sensitive thinks that means turn that way. That's why when I lean and have more weight in the inside stirrup our circles get very small...to the point of almost being a pioroette (sp). He is way to soft for me, but I am learning..that's why I love that horse. He does get cranky sometimes about my inabilities but for the most part is pretty forgiving.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 7:35 pm:
Don't worry Diane I have the same problem with circles I off balance him at times. Funny when I am cantering and trotting in and out of trees I never have the problem as I am looking where I am going. Its amazing how thinking messes you up. Holly my last instructor a while back had me looking 1/2 way round the circle twisting my body in that direction. It seemed to me an over exaggeration, My horse is like Diane's very sensitive, however it did sort of keep him bent better. Is this OK? I also have to keep my inside leg back to push him back out if the circle gets to small. It was against what I was taught but we had a 3 day eventer do a clinic. She said sometimes rules need to be broken. My inside leg on the girth put too much weight on the fore. swinging his hindquarters out as needed with my inside leg put him in a better position and me. Does this sound right to you. Actually I am so glad I don't do dressage any more. I love zig zagging through trees, jumping logs all with my seat. Still wish I could do dressage at times but I cant ride and listen to someone at the same time. Just doesn't work for me.
Diane you have the best teacher with your horse, you are lucky, they teach you more than anyone.
PS what about riding in a halter or English hackamore, then you can forget about hurting his mouth until you get this all right in you head and body. might make you relax.
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Member:
dwinans
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 7:37 pm:
Diane,
Somebody may have mentioned this already but have you tried cantering without stirrups? That will force you to stop leaning (if you lean you will fall off) - although I don't know what it would do with your hands.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 8:06 pm:
Katrina, I have been riding him in a sidepull for years because of my hands...we just graduated to the snaffle. I usually just ride him on trail with the side pull or halter. I have decided it is time for me to graduate to the bit for arena work.
Dawn yes I have taken my feet out of the stirrups, I don't fall off, but do tend to grab with my thigh.
I do believe part of this is over thinking, sometimes we get it perfect and you wouldn't even see my aids. The next day my hands are all over the place and usually I end up frustrated because we did so well the day before.
I wish it would stop raining so I could try all these ideas out!
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 9:56 pm:
Diane, if you are interested in doing at home exercises to work on flexibility and balance i enjoyed James Shaw "Tai Chi for the Equestrian".. it does a lot of work on loosening up the rider and promoting balance...
as far as one suggestion that was made about putting more weight into your outside stirrup to counterbalance your tendency to lean on i need to weigh in and disagree on that... putting more weight in your stirrup will only torque your position-esp. your hips, unless you do it correctly, and if you are tight in your hip then you wont... in all likelihood you'll just push that leg forward out of alignment a bit, twist your hip and confuse Hank to no end... if anything i would suggest stretching your outside thigh down a little further when you feel yourself lean to the inside..(or vice versa)... if you work on your thigh and knee you are less likely to torque yourself out of position... tho this may be hard for you to do if you are gripping witih your thigh... there should be some light pressure with your thigh-moreso as you ask for self carriage, but it should never be a grip that tenses up your back, seat, legs, etc...this can cause you to stick your butt out behind you and lean forward...
katrina, i dont understand.. your instructor told you to look 1/2 way around the circle, but you need to use your inside leg to compensate for the horse making the circle too small?... 1/2 way around the circle is way too far to be looking.. i look rght between my horse's ears, positioned just enough to support the bend... if your horse is correctly thru its back the bend comes naturally- you dont have to push, pull or hold the horse to get it right... if you are using your inside leg to push the hindquarters out then it sounds like you are overfacing your horse and the horse is just falling to the inside, not actually bending...
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2007 - 11:47 pm:
Katrina, I would think that inside rein toward your outside hip would help widen the circle, and your inside leg can just be at the girth. You might be using too much outside leg behind the girth to bend him around your inside leg ? . . . but if you are looking ahead to where you want the horse to go, it keeps your shoulders and seat in the correct position to guide the horse.
I know that I have very strong legs, and without even knowing it, I can give a stronger cue than I intend to give . . . and some horses will let me know asap.
Diane, can you canter with your legs off the horse . . . just on your seat letting your hips follow the canter motion? I tell my students to "disconnect" at the waist. I want them to keep control of their shoulders and never give the horse their shoulders, but to allow their lower bodies to move with the horse. That's the safest way. If our lower bodies are moving with the horse's motion, then we'll stick with the horse. It's when we try to restrict the motion of our lower body that we become stiff and lose the rhythm and throw the horse off. You know what, Diane? I wouldn't even try to make circles right now. I suggest that you just practice cantering in the arena, letting the horse pick his own direction, with your shoulders up and back (and I don't mean "back" in a stiff, prudish form, but back enough so that your belly button is leading at the canter and your seat is loose and soft, polishing the horse's back or the saddle with a smooth sliding motion.)
I keep getting the picture in my mind of Kevin Costner in DANCES WITH WOLVES. Isn't there a time in the film when he canters his horse while his head is thrown back and his arms are out to the side? (I haven't seen the film in years.)
Wish I had my arena . . . I'd go out and practice myself so I could see if there is anything else that I could offer as a help.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 7:12 am:
Thanks Melissa and Holly, Thats what I thought, thats how I ride when not listening to instructors. Thats why I have given up on instructors. When I ride my way he knows what I want before I give aids He can tell by my shift in weight as I think where we are going. No balance issues until someone tels me what to do. My friend says I should teach the instructor. don't know about that. Maybe the one who told me to look half way round the circle was thinking in regards to jumping she is a 3 day eventer, you know looking at the next jump. Thats all I can think of. Thank you for confirming they were wrong and I wasn't just thinking I have been riding wrong for 40 plus years. Thats why I love the riding with confidence tapes its all common sense, nothing confusing for the horse at all.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 7:33 am:
Holly my "arena" is a patch of grass mowed in a circle in the pasture. It is small because we don't have much flat land here. I am trying to get one bulldozed for next year. This does bring up part of the canter circle problem I think.
When I take him up to the neighbors "real" arena which is much bigger we do pretty good usually. Even out in the fields when I practice circles we do good too. Maybe I just am not ready for smaller circles. I think my mowed arena is 80' wide x 100' long. The neighbors arena is 120' wide x 300' long and also has a fence around it for visual affect....which helps.
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Member:
maximum
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 7:00 am:
If you have someone you can work with on the ground. My humble suggestion would be to do a following hands exercise I use with my students.
Stand facing another person and place the palm of your hands together. One person will "lead" and the other follow. Moving their hands in unison. Once you both are comfortable with that, switch the leader and follower. Then do the exercise again, but without actually touching hands, again using and switching the follower and leader.
This will cause you to soften your entire being including your eyes.
Finally do the exercise again, touching hands, but this time you are BOTH leaders. Laugh at yourselves with this and do NOT talk it out. Use your touch and body language to "compromise" on all movements and motions.
The last part of this is the hardest, but is SO worth the struggle to achieve success. It will bring back stiffness and uncertainty for awhile. But if you work through it eventually, each will "lead" parts of the exercise.
Do circles, ups, downs, etc and get inventive with moving your hands.
The exercise reflects a rider and horse relationship. First the rider is using the reins to command the horse to follow their directions. Then the rider learns to follow the movement of the horse. and finally they become a team and depend upon each other for communication and direction.
Have fun with this!!
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 8:41 am:
Diane,
There's a ton of great advice already in this thread. Something else occurred to me that may help.
I've had 2 riding lessons using a Mary Wanless belt. Basically, it's a wide band of elastic that you velcro around your hips (somewhere below your waist). It has a smaller, longer band of elastic attached to the big strap that is long enough that you can hook your thumbs around it with your hand in riding position. Think of sitting with your hands in riding position, opening up your thumbs and the strap going over your thumbs which you can then close onto your fist.
Anyway, the idea is to keep the tension of the thumb strap consistent. Properly adjusted, you can feel pressure on your low back from the big strap. If you pull back, you will lose that feeling immediately. If you push your hands too far forward, you feel an increase in pressure on your low back. I found it really helpful at the posting trot. I could immediately feel if I was pulling myself up because I lost the pressure on my low back. I could immediately feel if I wasn't pulling because the feeling my low back stayed consistent.
They're pretty pricey, around $100 US and with the floods in the UK, they aren't shipping anytime soon (personal experience) but you can get them on the Mary Wanless web site. I suspect you could jury-rig something similar to try it out.
Good luck!
Chris
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 4:04 pm:
Well, I rode Hank today and my conclusion is I am a very tense person. We walked, trotted on a loose rein and did pretty good, but I did notice I was very tight from hips on down.
SOOO tried the loosening exercises, but couldn't quite shake it. My hands were good thru this and Hank stayed steady.
Decided to take him out in the hay field for a nice straight canter...no turns and WE were wonderful. He collected up nice...my hands were kind and I relaxed. Next step was a big circle in the field which went relatively well....considering his fitness level.
I think smaller circles freak me out for some reason. A couple years ago we were cantering in my small arena and Hank slipped in some STUPID cow poop and his back legs went out from under him and we had a mild spill. I wonder if that isn't in the back of my head floating around when down there.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 4:30 pm:
The same has happened to me, Diane . . . only it wasn't cow manure . . . it was just a grass arena and the horse slipped at a nice, easy canter on a figure-eight. The horse hopped up right away, but my foot was still in the stirrup and it pulled my leg when he leapt up . . . Now I have one leg longer than the other (You think Hankhas leg issues!)
I still think that your solution is "eyes-ahead and breathe."
Hank doesn't want to fall, either. If you want to practice circles, try to do it where the footing is good and trust Hank to keep you both upright. If you are on a trail and end up cantering a circle in a field, then just allow him to pick his footing and keep your eyes focused on your destination.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 5:33 pm:
Well, Diane, you've got it figured out I bet. The fear of having a horse slip and fall on you. My biggest fear too. I have had horses fall with me on them, and once got my leg under a horse as she cantered off the road and down the ditch. Muddy, and she just slid right out from under me, except for my foot still in the stirrup. (always blamed that one on my mom, made me use the saddle so my jeans would stay clean, lol!) I was about 13 at the time, my foot ached for days! But I never said what happened to it.
Just yesterday, my youngest horse who has had about 7 rides now, slipped as we trotted around the arena. I think I was posting on the wrong diagonal...what is that ditty to remember when to raise and when to fall? Sigh....So much to learn.
If you have it in the back of your mind that Hank can't stay up right, and you tense up, and I bet you lean too? You have to trust him that he can stay upright, and he can, if a rider don't get in his way. I think we do more harm getting in a horses way when we try to hold them/their head a certain way? And bracing on the reins is doing that, right?
I am thinking out loud here, so jump in anyone who thinks I am thinking wrong. I was trying to help my daughter ride this morning...hands too tight, hands bouncing, had horse doing a really, really, big extended trot, with the head waaaay up!! Not a canter that we were trying for!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 5:49 pm:
Rise and fall with the leg to the wall. I think it is the fear of falling in that arena. In the neighbors arena we do very good. Last time I rode hank there I even commented on how he didn't slip in theirs, but his back feet do go out more in mine. HMMMMM STUPID COWS!!!! I even harrow it before I ride so the cow manure is dry....but you just can't quite get that stuff dry.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 12:02 pm:
As others have said, since your confidence begins with proper footing and good balance, these are two elements you must address first.
However, I have learned a bit about fear.  I read "Riding With Confidence" that is available on Julie Goodnight's webpage. She talks about finding your comfort zone. The place where you are totally comfortable and relaxed. Then gradually move in to the more scarey place, have it go successfully, and build your confidence. In your case, begin making large circles at a gait where you are completely relaxed and gradually make them smaller. Find the size where you begin to feel tense and stay there until you feel comfortable and confident. Don't increase gait until you feel confident. So if tight corners at a canter are the problem, you need to canter in a larger circle until you feel balanced and confident. Give yourself as much time as it takes to become relaxed. Julie says "when you become bored, you will know it is time to go to the next step." This technique changed me from a fearful rider into a very confident one.
Good luck,
Linda
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 30, 2007 - 7:56 pm:
Back to the slippery arena tonight.... After a nice relaxing trail ride...cantered a few BIG circles in the hay field all was well. Down to the little arena and we walked, trotted on loose rein. We were both very relaxed.
Then comes the canter! Again we were a mess, or I should say I was a mess. Ran all your wonderful suggestions thru my head and tried again AHA I was staring at his head AND over steering.
Looked where we were going...quieted hands...sat
up....breathed. Well we got one good circle before I fell apart again..but that is a start!!! Thanks
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Friday, Aug 31, 2007 - 7:37 am:
Diane, You should be grateful that your horse is so willing. I have many of your same issues at the canter, and my horse really doesn't want to deal with me. It takes me forever to get him into the canter! It's always good to acknowledge a patient and willing horse!
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Aug 31, 2007 - 7:44 am:
Sounds good to me!
Have you checked out www.mary-wanless.com? Click on the highlighted "a series of articles where photos of riders are analyzed".
I think her analysis is brilliant, and really helpful in PRACTICE. She points out exactly what is right and, ahem, not so right in each photo, helps you to see it clearly yourself, explains why it is so and gives really practical explanations of what can be done, along with things to visualise.
I read the whole thing twice, tried to put her ideas into practice the next day, and my horse went so well - much larger, freer paces, and more forward-going. I felt I was solving my contact problems and really helping my horse to go round by raising her back and withers without falling into the trap of either restricting with too much rein, or losing all the energy with too little.
In fact I've bookmarked the articles, and plan to keep giving myself little refresher courses!
Hope you like them too.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Aug 31, 2007 - 7:53 am:
Diane, I know this piece of advice is so basic as to be almost insulting, but when you ask for the canter, remember to sit back and turn your body slightly in the direction you are going. Be very deliberate about it. The reason why I say this is that when I had canter problems, I started to anticipate the problem before I asked for the canter, and in doing so, my body started to tip forward and I would stay straight in my body, even as I asked to do a big circle. I wasn't even aware I was doing it until my trainer got after me, over, and over and over...
Once it was pointed out what I was doing wrong, I made a very deliberate effort to "over" lean back. It felt to me like I was about to touch my head to Sparkles rump, but in actuality, it got me in the right position. I also deliberately move my shoulder blade way back (so if I'm turning to the right, my right shoulder comes back). Again, it felt over exagerated but put me where I needed to be. So, for me, it has gotten better, my position feels more secure and I'm less likely to balance on the reins.
If you can, have an experienced pair of eyes on the ground or have someone videotape you. You may see something that you weren't aware you were doing and can create a plan of action to fix it from there.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Friday, Aug 31, 2007 - 10:16 am:
Sounds like an excellent site, LL. Fran, that is a great way to figure out how to disengage OUR hips at the canter. I usually have my students hold the pommel of the saddle (English) and lean back against their hand with their arms straight, and hold reins in the other hand . . . and SIT and ASK . . . and "Allow your hips to move forward with the horse." It's common sense and reflex action for us to try to protect ourselves by getting ready to fold up into a fetal position, and it IS unnerving to be on a "thinking" animal and to increase speed and to be moved forward with THEIR movement, especially on a small circle as the horse leans in.
Sounds like you and Diane are both changing that habit and your horses are appreciating your permission for them to move freely. It's a beautiful thing to watch, and a more beautiful thing to feel.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 1, 2007 - 10:01 pm:
Could have it been as simple as my stirrups were too long? Tonight we did beautiful circles after I raised my stirrups. He even behaved better than normal out on trail.
Could have been a fluke we will see tomorrow.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 1, 2007 - 11:25 pm:
Hmmm . . . not sure. If you are reaching for your stirrups and they aren't hung in the correct position, then I guess it might throw your body off balance as you wouldn't be feeling very secure, but with shorter stirrups, folks have a tendency to push into them and lean forward and find their security by holding on with their thighs. You see, I think the cure for this kind of problem is often riding bareback because the rider has to sit on his/her seatbones in a balanced position and allow the horse's movement to carry him/her forward, lower body first. Try DrOpping your stirrups tomorrow and see what happens.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 2, 2007 - 7:11 am:
Thanks Holly, I took my stirrups up before I got on. The difference I felt was immediate! We went for a ride in the pasture first and while walking down the road to get there I noticed my hips seemed MUCH freer...swinging with every step he took....it felt wonderful. He also listened to my leg and ME much better. My stirrups aren't short when I take them up...more where they belong.
I usually ride with my stirrups too long because I have a "trick" knee. Seemed yesterday after I took them up my body position was much better and relaxed. Instead of reaching as you said. My knee is on good behavior right now. I'll see what happens today.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 2, 2007 - 6:48 pm:
Well we had a great ride and "pretty" circles tonight again, I can feel a big difference in my position with the stirrups up a notch, it almost sets me where I should be. I think with the longer stirrups I was reaching and throwing myself forward doing so. Hank is getting better balanced and fit now too, we have been doing alot of hill work and bringing in cows and calves after the calving....not an easy task! I REALLY shouldn't say this but it is SOOOOO nice to have him sound again.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Sep 3, 2007 - 11:05 am:
Diane and others--
I've been following the progression of this thread, and I have a question about what is understood by the term "soft." It's not a word that comes up a lot in classical dressage, I suppose because it can as easily describe incorrect ways of going as correct ones. I'm more used to seeing words like light, connected, through, or relaxed. How do you know your horse is soft? Does that include a concept of engagement and impulsion?
I ask because it's important in dressage not to sacrifice the quality of the canter as a way to avoid the work to establish "feel" in the contact.
It sure is hard to communicate clearly in riding. Even really good trainers seem to speak in riddles (sometimes on purpose, but often not).
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Sep 3, 2007 - 1:05 pm:
Elizabeth A trainer I'm not. Soft can mean so many things, when riding and on the ground.
From my earlier lessons with a wonderful trainer....When I finally got Hank "collected' in the canter he would say "and soften" which to me meant "reward" the "collection"....eventually they will remain "collected" with minimal contact.
A horse can definitately remain collected with minimal contact. In my lessons when the trainer said soften I had a hard time doing so, I didn't trust hank at the time. He would tell me to pet his neck which made me "release". With out the soften they learn to lean on and depend on the bit.
I had a big discussion with this trainer about contact and dressage...or any riding I guess.
In a nutshell he said "contact" is necesary for collection, impulsion, but should be so light that hardly noticeable.
A "soft" horse is relaxed through his whole body, breaks thru the poll, able to maintain impulsion, with minimal contact.
You do need the "feel", but your aids should be coming from leg and body as much or more than the bit. When I watched him ride his "contact" was very slight. When training the young ones every try was rewarded, it does take awhile for the horse to build the "PROPER" muscle to "soften" and carry themselves. That's how I understood it from the ridden point of view. I am sure someone can explain it much better than me.
Interesting question
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 1:14 pm:
I just wanted to update our progress with this problem...I had gotten much better. Then I got the cashel soft saddle....HUGE improvement in Hank and I. I am starting to think my saddle doesn't fit either one of us..I know it didn't fit me well.
The soft saddle doesn't LET me sit forward, and I feel so much more balanced. My legs swing at the walk and my Butt stays put and goes with the horse at walk trot. The rein balancing has ALMOST disappeared.
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 9:29 pm:
Awesome, Diane. So many discoveries and insights in this thread - many of the same issues I have. Because I have embarked on a huge discovery journey for a properly fitting saddle, I also have found that we need a centered riding position as home base on a horse. Sad to say, we continue to purchase and support non-centered saddles which we fight to find our centered, secure position on the horse. Keep up the good work with your riding position and really note how a centered position makes you so much safer on top of a horse. Once your calves are elongated (which happens when your heel is lower than your toes), you will achieve a confident, secure seat which you can then transfer to just about any saddle.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 28, 2007 - 10:35 am:
Wonderful Diane! I must tell you that I love this thread... I've reread it now that I'm riding Brave again and it's helped me a lot... thank you
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