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Discussion on Yanks longe line out of my hands????
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 11:21 pm:
I need advice. . . Levi generally does really well when we are working. He stays on task and enjoys his training sessions. But when he is not in the mood, he can be a serious "butt head" excuse my language!!! Again today he ran off with the longe line. He does not want to go off in a circle, so instead he does a very nice front leg pivot. When I finally get him out on the round pen, he acts like he is going one way and then changes direction and yanks the line from my hand. He is definately aware of his intent. He has only done this twice, and caught me unaware. I cracked the longe whip behind him and just made him run around and around till he was tired, dragging the longe line behind him. When he was finally tired, I gave him a walk cue, he responded then a whoa. He stood huffing infront of me trying to rub a pet out me, but I was too unhappy. I then sent him off for a few more trips around the round pen. We walked it off and did some ground tying exercises. He was fine then. What should I do about this surprise bratty attitude. If we were not in a round pen, he would have been off and running. I am wondering again what was I thinking raising a youngster. thanks
sue
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Member:
Nathalie
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 3:22 am:
have you tried putting the line over his nose like a shank? That should give you control over him. Only problem is when you change direction you need to re-do the whole thing to the other side but I'm sure it will be very hard for him to get away from you then.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 5:54 am:
Susan,
I do not understand how he can pull the line out of your hand in the round pen. If the pen is, say, 45ft diameter, the line should be 23-24 ft, so he hits wall before you're out of line.
In any case, he should not be allowed to change direction on his own. Lesson one in the round pen is that he moves and he stops when you tell him. Lesson two is that he keeps moving in the direction you dictate and he changes only when you ask. Lesson three is what pace he's moving at.
Force him back to the direction you want by blocking his way. Crack the whip if he's pushing it, and don't hesitate to sting him on the outside shoulder if he's playing "run you over".
Even before lungeing, you should teach him that turning his hind end to you is completely unacceptable. Annoy him with the whip when he does this. If he changes direction, whether you asked or not, he should do it by coming to you, to the inside, not by hanging his head over the rail and turning his hind end to you.
I believe you should set these things clear in the round pen before you attach any line to him.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 10:36 am:
its nice that you have a round pen to teach your horse... i have to truck my young ones out to give them their first lessons on the line.. but once learned they are easy to deal with in my full arena...
i would put a bridle on this horse..( you did not say how old.?)..with a chain under the chin.. if two, a halter with a chain over the nose is a great idea.. and don't lunge often if only 2!
keep at it.. short lessons are always better then a long one with tempers flared in the end...
young horses can be a handful.. but they are also very rewarding...
Ann
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 6:17 pm:
Do you use a lunge cavesson? That makes a world of difference. Or you can buy an attachment for around $5.00 to hook on the halter.This one goes underneath. I am not for chains when teaching youngsters, but thats only my oppion. it might work great for others. It is almost impossible for them to pull the rein out of your hand with the attachment. My arab is excellent at the lunge however when I first got him and he was super energetic he could give me a run for my money. As soon as I bought the little attachment he has been heaven, But you need to start small when teaching one step at a time. Eg you must be able to teach them forward then to move each body part front and rear away from you. word commands are a must.
Good luck, It is very rewarding training a youngster as you wil find out. wishing you well
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 6:40 pm:
Here's an argument I have with local people all the time:
They believe that a horse running on the end of a taught line is having a lunge lesson, I believe it's not.
My idea is that the lunge line is only a means of communication, it is not there to restrain the horse or to prevent it from running away.
I believe that a horse breaking loose from the lunge means that either you pushed it too much, or ground manners need to be reestablished. It is a training mistake, and just adding extra restraint (a mouthpiece, chains etc) will rather escalate than fix the situation.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 7:42 pm:
Cristos The attachment I was referering to is not a restraint. It's like a leather V it hooks to both sides of the halter to form a ring about 6 inchs under the halter underneath so that the horse has even pressure when a slight touch might be needed. I do not beleive in chains, bits or restraints either when lunging. My horse will stop on a dime just by saying stand he will canter from a standstill just by saying canter. Maybe I worded it wrong.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 9:47 am:
Christos-thank you. Well said.
Katrina-I know the attachment you are talking about. It is useful because you don't have to stop and change the lounge line from side to side when you reverse directions.
I think many people use "lounging" as a means of just exercising the horse, when infact it is a training tool, when done correctly, just like working on long lines.
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Member:
Hrbdn
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Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 1:56 am:
Susan
I understand where you are at with your horse. One thing I have learned breaking colts for years and even working with older unbroke pasture horses is that they sometimes get the better of you. Knowing what he does helps you to prepare for the correction. I don't know if he pulls away with a direction change in the same place due to what he sees ahead of him or the lack thereof (maybe the round pen gate which is an out) or if maybe your body position may be causing it. If he does it in the same place evaluate your posisition in relation to his shoulders. If you are too far forward it will turn him back, too far back will turn him in. So check that first. If your position for driving him in the circle is correct and he is continuing to turn in the same area, what has worked for me is to position yourself so you are sure you are driving him from behind with your body language and quite possibly the crack of a whip on the ground or butt if necessary to get him through. He may turn several times being confused as to how to get out of his predicament but keep the pressure on until he goes the correct direction and then take the pressure off. Pressure can be as little as driving from the hip by walking in the correct relation to it to cracking that whip with some force and continuous until he gets in the right position where you then leave him be. Sounds as though he has done this enough to know he can get away with it and now you have some repetitive corrections to break him of it. If you hold your lunge line correctly and catch him at he right time and angle you can literally yank him back in the correct direction and may even cause him to lose his balance which he won't like. Horses don't like to be off balance and he will soon learn if he doesn't make these direction changes unless told he will not have to suffer an unpleasant consequence. I at 5'1" and 96 pounds have been able to literally yank more than one off its feet for such things by being in the right position and using the correct timing. It may take a few times to get the feel for it but this type of training is mental and very very important. It will transfer into the saddle and all else you do so don't give up until he gives in and is relaxed with your corrections. Always quit the pressure when he is good but lay it on if he is bad. Watch a lead mare in a pasture after introducing a new horse. You will see the same principles at work. I don't put anything special on for lunging but do DrOp the halter enough to have better control. If the noseband is too high, you lose any effectivenes. I always hook the lunge line to the bottom middle ring and use body language to turn them. Sometime not easy to begin with but you can get it done. Just turning him lose and running him gives him reward. Running him beyond what he wants or is comfortable with only teaches him to stop when you say so. Always make sure your horse is resposive to you and trusts and respects you to make the decesions out there. They can do whatever they want when lose but when you have a hold of them they need to give you 100% attention and no less. Hope this helps. I believe that gadgets just restrain and force a horse into the desired behavior but teaching them to behave out of respect for you results in a safer, better minded, more cooperative and happier horse.
Dawn
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 11:53 pm:
Thanks to all of you for your wonderful advice. I am sorry I have not responded, but I have been dealing with a very sick horse, as posted on injection site infection, I haven't even looked beyond response for my other guy. He is in the horse hospital now, hopefully we will get him recovering soon. I have not had a chance to even work with Levi. But to update a bit. Levi is a 4 year old quarter horse that I have raised since he was 4 months. I actually did tons of round pen work with him with no longe line on. He does really well, actually mostly perfect, with no restraints on his head. I also forgot to mention that I had added a tarp to cross and a pole into his round pen on this day. Probably helped to get him a bit pumped up. I will pay closer attention to my body positioning, as that really makes sense. I train dogs, and always tell my people that dogs don't talk, but they do read each others body language, I imagine that applies to horses as well. I will pay closer attention to that. I also wonder if the days that I have trouble with him are the days that perhaps my patience is a little thin. 98% of the time he is almost boring in working with him. He will walk, trot, canter on verbal command. Maybe someone has some tips on how to change something that I have taught him over all these years. When I had him whoa, he would turn in to me, walk up to me and whoa for his pet. He does this everytime, even if he is being a brat. Unfortunately I am worried that he will think that whoa, under the saddle means to walk a few steps then whoa. When I lead him in practice he whoa's when I stop etc. But how can I get him to change to stopping on the rail, instead of walking into me, like I have inadvertently taught him?
Thanks for all your advice. I have very few days that I wonder what I am doing with a youngster, mostly I just love him and the experience!!!!
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 11:02 am:
I'm adding to this thread as I'm having the same problem with our 3yo Paint. He has learned that he can run off when on a lunge line...in fact, in doing so three weeks ago, he broke my daughter's finger because she had unfortunately wrapped the line around her hand one hitch, trying to regain leverage. It was a bad break requiring surgery; she is now watching from the sidelines! I've had a trainer out a few times since then doing some basic "respect" work in the roundpen and on the ground. In working with him myself, I observe that he is cooperative for very short periods...but he is always looking for the opportunity to bolt and tries it frequently...I'm working him on a short line right now--about 5 feet--so that I can better control his head when I see him getting ready to turn away and get his hind end under him. He also will offer to kick in my direction. We are taking BABY steps, but I don't even think he's ready for what I'm asking.
I guess what I REALLY need to know is, (referring to Christos' post above), since he is obviously disrespectful and unwilling to accept work and my leadership, how far back do I go to re-establish respect? (Because I don't think he's been pushed too much....I've only asked for maybe 10 minutes of lunge work at a time, if that). This horse is bright, energetic, and spoiled. We've had him less than a month, and I believe the owner overstated the amount of work she'd done with him and understated his attitude problem.
Suggestions? I had thought to put him in a full cheek snaffle and work him in that on the lunge...but that seems counterproductive--I want a willing horse, not a forced horse.
Suggestions?
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 11:26 am:
Terri, with a horse like this, I wouldn't work him on the longe line at first . . . I would work him free in a round pen or small arena and get him to stay with me (in his head) all the time and get him to lead alongside (free) and back and turn, etc . . . and THEN would put him on a line. Is this something you can do? Do you have a round pen?
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 11:33 am:
I agree with Holly...Act like he knows absolutely nothing, start from scratch as though he's a baby. If he can only give you 10 minutes of attention, start with 5 per session and work your way up.
Good luck!!
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 11:38 am:
Yes, we do have a round pen...currently underwater. I would have used it if I could have. We've had so much rain this year that it has remained unuseable much of the time.
Getting him to "stay with me" sans lead may be a challenge. What's the best way to start? (There's fresh new grass in the round pen under the water! When it dries out, it will be awfully tempting!)
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 12:52 pm:
The key is to keep him moving and turning whenever you ask him to . . . especially if you see he has put his attention somewhere other than on you . . . Actually, the grass is a great test. If he is paying attention to you, then he won't want to be eating grass, because he knows that if he even LOOKS at it as if he is going to dive for it, you are going to make him MOVE and WORK. Of course, after you have gotten the correct response, you can CHOOSE to let him eat grass by walking away from him and staring out at the scenery, but when you put your focus back on him, he needs to put his focus on YOU . . . just as you would expect someone to do in conversation. I follow the Lyons's methodology, so I use a kiss sound to get my horse to move something, any part of his body, even if it means, "Hey, look up at me, we're going to work now." If the horse doesn't perk up and give me his attention, I kiss again and move toward him, and if he still doesn't pay attention, then I make him MOVE around.
After he has gone around the pen a couple of times at the speed I am asking, I will back off and give him permission to turn in toward me . . . If he refuses to do so, he will have to MOVE again and turn and keep moving in the opposite direction . . . and when he does THAT nicely for a couple of rounds, I back off and give him permission to turn in again. Important here is to not make him frantic or so afraid that he starts looking to jump out of the pen . . . If your pen is high enough, you won't have to worry too much about that, but the point here isn't to make him fearful of coming to you, but for him to understand that YOU are in control of where he goes, how FAST he goes and when he can stop . . . that YOU are in control of him even though you don't have any physical connection to him . . . THEN when you DO put a lead on him, and you notice that he is not with you in his mind, all you have to do is give a kiss sound or an "ah, ah!" and he won't even attempt to pull on the lead, but will stay with you.
John says, "The strongest halter you have is your horse's mind," and I have found that to be true as I have adapted what I learned from him in the work with the horses that have come my way.
Is this clear? (I feel as if I may have left something out.)
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 2:14 pm:
Yes, clearer. My friend who is helping out is excellent in the round pen...an artist! She did the above and he was highly resistant at first...after working with him he did the textbook lowering of head to the ground and licking...she was great to watch. It is one thing to know these principles of round pen training...but for someone who hasn't practiced them a lot (me!) it is daunting to get in the ring with him and try them...I need to give myself permission to make mistakes, because I know I will. He's also very strong...with the possibility of trying to run past or over me when I attempt to turn him. But I think I can start slowly, carry a big whip, and out-think him. Ya think?  Will keep you posted. It may be dry enough today to do some work. And Holly, you always explain things SO WELL. Thanks.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 2:22 pm:
Well, Terri, on how far back you need to go, I'd say 20 feet minimum. Literally.
5 feet is crowding the horse and putting yourself in danger. With a green horse, I believe you must be very close (arm's length max) or not close at all.
A green horse may feel very threatened if you invade his space too soon or in a forceful, abrupt way.
This is another reason why lunge lines are built 24ft long. Longer, communication suffers. Shorter, the horse feels threatened.
The attention span of a green horse is also very short. I'd rather lunge a green horse for 5 minutes 2-3 times a day than in a long, 10 minute session.
Whatever the method or approach, what is very important (I wish there was a neon font so I could make this big, bright and flashing) is that after the lesson the horse has the same good spirits as in the beginning.
Remember, this is kindergarten.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 2:54 pm:
What if you just start in the stall with him? Is he mean/aggressive toward you? If so...not a good idea. But if he isn't you could ask him to move his hindquarters each way, back, etc. in a small space just to move a couple of steps at a time -- give him a treat and lots of scratches for a reward when he does it right. Then move to a larger space and do the same things over and over then extend the line and do it again?
Edited to say: teach him to give to pressure as well in his stall, that will help with the yanking I think.
Just a thought.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 3:08 pm:
Christos, too funny....I really meant how far back in training did I need to go...back to leading, backing, etc? However, the distance discussion is very relevant. In my experience with this horse...the longer lunge line is what enabled him to turn his body to the point where he could use his hind end to push away from Lauryn. She was working him on about 20 ft of line. The problem on that day was twofold (and probably more): he'd been stalled all day (has always been out in his previous life), and he is brand new....at that time he was only days into the acclimation process. I was in the house with a headache or I wouldn't have allowed this to happen. It was a recipe for disaster. We didn't know what he knew...or didn't.
On working with him on a shorter line, I feel I have better control, and can pull him out of balance more easily when he cues me that he's ready to run...and I'm not asking him to do any more than just move around me...we are still having problems just getting him to do THAT. But yes, he did swing his rear around last night and aim. And I was too close. Had he done more than threaten, I could have been in trouble. Many of the NH trainers have you working the horse on a 12-14' lead in the beginning. But I haven't gotten far enough along with this horse to succeed with that yet....that is what I'm realizing.
I think from what you all are saying, he needs to go back...WAY back....to the beginning and I should assume nothing. I will forego any lunge work until we have a better understanding of the structure of our relationship. I believe per Holly, the round pen is the best way to achieve this for now...at least for this particular horse.
I totally agree, Christos, that a horse needs to end training in good spirits. I ended last night's short session on a positive note with lots of praise as I ALWAYS strive to do...though I could see that had I gone ONE SECOND longer he was getting ready to bolt again! At least he is easy to read!
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 3:12 pm:
Aileen....yes I'm a firm believer in stall training and I do that every chance I get. We're doing pretty well. I did have the situation where he turned his rear toward me, but I solved that fairly quickly (the "rectal correction" ). I expect all my horses to yield in all directions in the stall. We work on this every time we feed. And he does still need work in this area...will keep it up as part of the big picture....and I just got Clinton Anderson's series on groundwork...looking forward to methodically working through every single exercise!!
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Member:
Trouble
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 3:48 pm:
Terri, I just got the same Clinton Anderson series as you. I have gone through the tapes once. They are great. I am going to go back through one at a time and focus on each lesson as I work through it with my gelding. I am practicing my "moves" without the horse first, so I can feel more confident when I work WITH the horse.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 4:13 pm:
Lisa...what a smart way to get ready to begin. I look at Clinton and the way he moves so naturally in relation to the horse...with no hesitation or fear and think I am really going to fall short of that type of performance. Just keeping an awareness of where your hands are, where you're holding the lead, the angle you're standing at, the excess lead line and how it loops....I'm reminded of the hopelessness I felt at my first aerobics class a hundred years ago when I realized I was going to have to learn a routine that required balance, synchronicity, and timing to avoid major embarrassment!!! But by God, I did it.....let me know how it goes for you and what you like and don't....and I'll do the same! (Email me separately if you like.)
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 4:15 pm:
Forgot to say, do believe per Holly. Her advice is always excellent.
And John Lyons is, indeed, a fine trainer. Studying his work is a good idea, to say the least.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 5:30 pm:
One thing I learned from John Lyons is that horses don't have short attention spans . . . that we can keep our horse's attention as long as we are interesting to the horse. (paraphrased from John) so be careful not to let the work get boring . . . if we are bored, then our horses probably are, too . . .
One way to avoid boredome and "delinquency" is, as Christos says above, to make the lessons short and end on a good note, but the other way is to link LOTS of short stimulating lessons together . . . ending each on a good note . . . and just spending good bonding time in between . . . Anyway, I have worked almost non-stop with two different horses for 7 and 8 hours straight . . . I knew what I was looking for and couldn't stop until I got it . . . nothing hard, but these were particularly fearful horses, and I didn't have months to work with them as they were client horses . . . One "graduated" and went on to become a police horse in Boston . . . and I bought the other "nut case," and am having great results with Clinton Anderson's riding methods.
Remember John's most important lesson to us as trainers: WE can't get hurt; our HORSES can't get hurt, and our horses have to be calmer AFTER the time spent with us than they were BEFORE. Those tenets, if burned into our brains, will save our horses and us from loads of grief.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 6:10 pm:
Terri,
I've only had a chance to skim the other posts, so maybe this has been said and I missed it. Along with getting control of the hind quarters you need to have flexibility in the neck. If the horse is following the pressure of the halter he can't do what your horse did. Ideally you want him to respond to the weight of the lead or lunge line, but in the beginning that isn't realistic.
Start with a rope halter and a good 12 ft lead line although I prefer 14 ft. (but you'll probably have to make one yourself). Stand close at the horse's hip, in this position it's difficult for them to kick or step on you. With the hand nearest his head reach out toward his nose and pickup enough line to put pressure on his nose and flex his head a little less than half way around to you, hold and wait; you want your hand to rest just behind his withers. Be prepared to follow his hip. It is very normal for a green horse to lay on the halter, then they will try circles or backing. Just hold the pressure until the horse gives his nose just a little toward your hand then immediately release the line and let him straighten his neck. It is very important not to release until the horse willingly gives to the pressure.
No, practice, practice, practice until he follows the weight of the rope and brings his nose all the way to his ribs. This cured a hard core bolter I have who could rip the rope out of the stoutest guy's hands, like your's but mine broke my arm. I do this exercise with all my horses before working with them or riding, at least three times each side; even the ten year olds.
This also sets the horse up nicely to follow a bit once you move to the saddle, it is also very difficult for a horse to bolt under saddle if he is willing to put his head in your lap.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 9:19 pm:
Terri,
Last summer I got a hurt wrist when one of my geldings yanked me around on the lunge line. So I watched more Clinton Anderson as well as studied his book over the winter. It's hard to understand, but doing the exercises in order sets you up to succeed farther down the line. As Alden explains so well above, control of the rear end and flexing the neck all add up to a nice horse who responds and respects you.
My guy who yanked me hard last summer has always been terrified of fly spray. TWO, yes 2 days of alot time spent on CA's gaining respect on the ground has this guy standing quietly for getting misted also! And, he's already starting to lunge softly.
So I'd say go back to square one. 2 eyes looking at ya, outa your space. Get control of all his movement, where his feet are. I also believe when you are done with lesson time, take a walk. Let your horse know you are nice to just hang out with, end on a good note.
I have a notebook with me at all times with notes from the book and review what Clinton has outlined, or I'd forget it when I am out with my horses. I know I am not doing things perfect, but it's still helping alot.
And 30 yrs ago I thought I knew how to train....geesh, who was I kidding?? still learning.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 8:53 am:
There is so much good information here. I'm also glad to know I'm on the right track with the CA series. I'm taking notes, Angie...much easier to have an outline to work from. And I have to remember that despite the deluge of information I have at my disposal (from CA and RFD TV has so much great stuff too!), I have to break it down into little pieces...and go one little bit at a time. One of the hardest things is to figure out WHERE TO START. Well, just pick the thing that makes the most sense! ....and getting control of the horse's feet, two eyes, and respect for your space are all foundational--as well as Alden's
suggestion above. All this while keeping it interesting. I love this site...
Christos...I'm dense sometimes. I realize your answer above was meant to be funny and you knew exactly what I meant. Appreciate your wisdom, as always.
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 10:00 am:
I agree with Holly on all accounts. I have also followed JL and like Holly found horses do not have short attention spans and in certain cases have worked several hours with a horse.
I do not have a round pen, I have a sm square pen. I have used it as my 'round' pen successfully. The horse will try to get 'stuck' in a corner but it is just another oportunity to teach them.
I do want to say the leave them on good not has nothing to do with verbal praise or petting. When I want to wrap a lesson I always go back to an exercise the horse knows well, however basic it may be. Petting and verbal praise has its place and i am not trying to minimize its importance, I do a lot of both.
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 10:55 am:
Terri, just so you know there is light at the end of the tunnel, I was the original poster of this problem, and Levi, who is now almost 5 years old, is wonderful, in most ways. We no longer have the problem, with yanking the lead rope. One thing that I did with my short lead rope, is put a knot about 1 1/2 feet down from the snap. I always position my hand above the knot close to his head. Before, if he yanked the rope, it slid right through my hands before I could correct him. this little knot, gave me a little edge if i was not paying attention, so i could bring his head back into my attention. All the advice I received here, not only educated me, but gave me confidence to work with Levi. He is still a work in progress, but just wanted to let you know, there is hope
suz
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 11:57 am:
Thanks, Suz! So glad to hear it. I like your knot idea. BTW Alden, ordered a 14' lead rope/halter (4 knots) combo yesterday before I read your post. It's on the way!
Lori, I wanted to comment on your "ending on a good note" thought. I understand that ending on a good note means ending after positive completion of whatever exercise we're involved in. I don't stop until we get that. Otherwise, I don't have a reason to praise...
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 12:12 pm:
Just don't forget to reward the "try"
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 12:44 pm:
Terri,
There is so much to training it is hard to cover it in a short post. Of course, what you say is true, nothing worse than leaving a lesson in the middle of confusion/the horse resisting. Sorry if I was confusing.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 12:58 pm:
Lori--so true. You were not confusing at all...I knew what you meant. Not long ago I read or heard someone say that a horse could care less about the praise and petting. Though I don't entirely agree, I think other things are definitely more important. Rewarding the try, as stated so well, and "feel" (not sure I have this other than at a really rudimentary level), and reading your horse's body language. And then knowing what to do with all that to accomplish a goal...
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 6:04 pm:
Round pens are prefered but not imperative. I have adopted and worked many mustangs in a rectangular pen. Physically getting them to the round pen impossible till halter broke.
You already know your horse will stop in the corners so you increase the pressure into and through the corner.
I have worked with some knotheads and I found even though they understood that I control their feet and did good in the round pen, they just couldn't handle extra space when learning to lunge. I found that I would decide how much space I would allow them to use and place someone at a couple of points on the outside of the circle till they learned to relax and keep the pressure off the rope. Then I would let them have more space. I still had a stubborn one and my farriers dog decided that it would run in the opposing direction on the outside of my horse and Low and behold he got it finally.
When your horse has had a few days off, and eats plenty of good food always ASSUME your horse will act fresh do the groundwork first before real work. Lead them and ask them to move their butt and move their shoulders. Lead them about to focus on you then go to the roundpen or lunging and then to real work.
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