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Discussion on Conformation clinic
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 16, 2007 - 11:52 pm:
This is a picture of my 14 month old filly.
I think her hock angle is too straight.
Please tell me what you think.
Thank you
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 12:12 am:
Wow . . . Her pasterns are really long, aren't they? And from this picture, the hock does look really straight, but I don't know if the point of hock is covered by the tail. Not much curve on the inside, though, is there? At least she's not standing too far under. How about some more photos from both sides?
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 3:58 am:
Lori, yes this picture gives the impression she is straight.I assume this is the Hannovarian cross with the half Percheron mother?
What Hannovarian did you use? some of them tend to give a bit straight hindlegs and a 'croupe' where the tail is set in rather high[sorry don't know the English terms] These are often a bit 'throwbacks' to the more oldfashioned type[very strong though] which is plausible with the Percheron blood.
I would like to know how she uses her hind legs in trot [easiest to see on a picture in trot I mean]does she put them under her body or does she pulls them up towards her belly?
I think [my opinion only] if she uses them good even if she is straight as the picture suggests it will not give you problems in dressage and it will either way not give you problems for jumping[normally]
In my experience if she pulls her legs with much force up to her belly good chance she will be a bit more difficult to sit out in trot but you can overcome that[just ride better ]
If she doesn't put her hind legs enough forward you are in for a lot of training[but you can still overcome that problem]
Sorry for the long answer but you send me in the direction of my pet subject!
Jos
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 8:37 am:
this is another picture from the other side. The dark patch on her hip is not dirt, it is just a dark patch.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 8:59 am:
Holly, in th e first pic the pont of hock is just a bit forward of a line down from her buttock.
In the second picture the point of hock is back.
No worries Jos, I appreciate your answer.
What I have observed of her trot is even as a week old baby she had the floating trot typical of warmbloods. Her Mom will break from canter and trot; she will break from trot and canter so to speak.
I would say definately she does not pull her feet up like a draft type trot.
By having to do lots of training if her legs don't come forward you mean she isn't naturally bringing her legs under herself so it will be harder to teach her collection?
Interesting you don't think this conformation will interfere with jumping.
The stallion is out of a mare by Arkansas, by a grandson of Landgraf. I don't know if you know those names.
I think her hip angle is quite good.
I am not sure if I can post a video of her trotting on utube, hmmm another challenge, but you know what they say, if someone else can do it ... so can someone else!!
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 9:05 am:
In this photos, her hocks don't look as straight to me . . . remember that she's only 1 year old, and lots of growth and changes are coming down the pike. Jos has some great encouragement, too.
When I've seen really post-legged horses, and I can picture the two worst ones in my mind right now) they have had suspensory problems with their fetlocks falling way behind their hind feet. Your filly doesn't look like either one of them.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 9:30 am:
Pretty horse.. yearlings are so difficult to look at .. the fuglies.. 
I agree with the ladies she appears to have pretty staight legs behind.. long pasturns.. little straight in the shoulder.. nice hip.. pretty head..
Have fun..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 10:08 am:
I did not mean she doesn't bring her legs under her body I tried to point out the three possibilities, Lori
It seems we can forget the one bringing her legs up to her belly.
The other two options are more difficult because for instance she can have a trot with her feet coming very good under the mass of her body but in walk just put her hind hooves in the imprint of her fore legs[which normally gives a less exceptional canter to] on the other hand she can have a very good walk and canter [like I am sure her mother must have] while in trot the level of putting her legs underneath her body weight could be better of course the best horses have it all and all variations in between exist. I wanted to point out that if the trot leaves something to wish for you can fairly easy train her a lot better if the walk is not her best feature it is much much more work to train her for dressage [especially if it means her canter is not exceptionally balanced to]for a showjumper less a point then a dressage horse because they need to 'sit down' during collection. A showjumper needs a good canter to [especially the high level jumpers with the technical very strenuous concourses] but can make up for it by sheer power to a certain level which exists often with the 'oldfashioned' a bit straight types. Soooo more information needed from you as you see her move[remember as the confirmation doesn't give health issues the way they USE there legs is the most important]
Arkansas doesn't say much to me unless it means an A line[Argentinus or Abglanz family?] from Hannover. Landgraf was one of the Leading stallions from Holstein[Ladykiller xx xAldato]
I do not completely agree with Holly normally the angles in a young horse are the same as in the adult horse but I do agree she will change much [for example her forehand will come up] which will make her much more balanced[in the movement to] Again just my opinion.
I am curious how she moves would love to see pics of her in walk trot and canter.
I am very interested in the way confirmation effects the abilities [and the way they are trained!] of a dressage horse.
Hope I didn't bore anyone to sleep but as I said my pet subject
Jos
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 1:33 pm:
Hi Lori,
In my breed (bullfighting lines of Andalusians)it's said that the best yearlings are the ones you hide behind the barn. Not to keep buyers away but to avoid scaring them with ugliness. Your sweet girl is in a gangly phase for sure.
She does look rather post-legged (not necessarily a showstopper as others have noted). Her stifles also look almost vertical, though it may be how she's standing. The stifles might worry more than the hocks for jumping, but it depends on what she does with them.
I have a Cor de la Bryere granddaughter who is quite straight behind (though her stifle is very different to this filly), and she is a strong jumper (to about 4'6") and has good power in collection. That being said, the collection does not come easily to her, and has required a ton of very careful development.
I would pay very close attention to your youngster's front feet-- she has long pasterns, and these pictures make her look a bit up-and-down in front. She is going to need good correct feet, and it looks like her front end bears watching to make sure that base of support is the best it can be.
Eric Clapton said it well: "It's in the way that you use it." Good luck to both of you!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 2:01 pm:
imo IF you can keep her feet at the right angles, as Elizabeth said, she is going to be wonderful to ride; you will just be floating above the ground. As others have said, yearlings of any breed are pretty difficult to assess. Be patient with her. She has a lot of growth and changing to do, and I think she'll be great when she's fully developed. I'd make sure she gets a good balanced diet, too, btw, so she doesn't develop any hock joint OCD or such. As she gets older, exercise to muscle up her rump would help, too. From what I can see in her pictures, I like her.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Sep 17, 2007 - 2:50 pm:
https://www.rainbowequus.com/ There new stallion has the Arkansas lines.. LOVELY..
On the first day God created horses ,on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 - 7:40 pm:
Thanks to everyone for their reply.
If I can use my camera video to upload to utube I will.
Elizabeth what do you mean "her front end bears watching?
Sara, are you suggesting it may be hard to keep her feet at the correct angle? I am a barefoot advocate and trim every month.
I am concerned about ocd, but since my girl is thin I feed her a 2 lbs of 14% complete feed, to this I also add oil and a mineral mix that a local vet has developed just for this area.
Ann, the fuglies, I love it, this is one yearling you want waay behind the barn.
Jos, the mare has a very good walk, she oversteps by a hoofprint and also has a soft-longstride canter; but how did you know?
Could you explain more about what you mean by bringing the hind legs under? Sorry I don't understand but I do want to learn.
What potential problems could long pasterns cause?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 - 10:53 pm:
Hi Lori,
I mean that those front feet need to be kept well and correctly trimmed. The pictures didn't show her feet all that clearly, but with her impending size and long pasterns, it would be easy for her feet to wear in a way that would cause unnecessary extra stress on her front legs. Don't let her toes get long or her heel get under-run!
I like your girl and wish you both great luck.
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