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  Discussion on Training to follow quietly
Author Message
Member:
Pauline

Posted on Sunday, Jul 18, 2004 - 9:16 pm:

Hello Everyone,
I have a 5 year old thoroughbred(non-raced)who behaves very well on trail rides alone .We are now going out with other horses and he is very good in front but starts to act up when we are behind and he feels that the lead horse is getting to far ahead.I would like to have some strategies to deal with this right away so that it does not become a habit.I ride with understanding people so I can take the time to work this through.Any ideas?
Thankyou, Pauline
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 8:36 am:

What's he like in the field? Thoroughbreds not intended for flat racing tend to get the "chuck it out up a mountain until it's 3" treatment, left to their own devices with a lot of other silly thoroughbreds where their only entertainment is any excuse for galloping around in a bunch together. If that happened to your horse it will take some time to reduce the following obsession.

Can you do things like, start on a ride with others then go off on your own entirely so the horse is not always expecting that you will be "catching up" in a minute? Will your horse quietly go away from others if in the lead or is it just following behaviour that is a problem?

All the best

Imogen
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 12:04 pm:

Pauline, what's "too far ahead?" A couple of horse lengths, or out of sight, or somewhere in between?
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Jul 23, 2004 - 5:23 am:

Hi, Pauline,
The following is what has always worked for me. It should be fairly simple, since you have an understanding group to work together.
Ask him first to keep his position next to another horse. Be soft, but insist in accuracy. He can do better than a head's length through all paces and transitions and there are good chances he'll do so willingly once he understands that this is all you want.
Once that is somehow solid, ask him to stay a head's length back. Not more than that, as it becomes too easy for your horse to bite the other rider or for the other horse to land a very successful blow.
It may sound too little to us, but for a horse a head's length makes the difference between leading or following.
Once he's solid in that, it should be very easy to have him follow at any distance you wish.

All the best,
Christos


Member:
Longhorn

Posted on Saturday, Jul 24, 2004 - 1:00 am:

Christos's suggestion is a variation (and a very good one) on the "leapfrog" game.

That's where you vary your horse's position to the rest of the trail ride by riding him in front for a while, then in the back, then in the front, then in the back, then in the front, then in the back... you get the idea. After an hour of back and forth your horse soon gets the idea they're neither in front nor in back and calm down a bit. Your horse learns that where they're supposed to be is where you want them to be and there's no advantage either way. Sooner or later they'll be behind or in front, wherever you put them. Throw away the watch and, hopefully, you have the trail room to go up front and then DrOp behind.

I like Christos's suggestion because it's a bit more subtle, the little nuances that make a difference with horses. A head or neck ahead makes a big difference with a race horse. Fortunately, you have understanding riding partners who will work with you and be patient--a big requirement for this kind of training, repetitive desensitivity training. Good luck!
Member:
Pauline

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 27, 2004 - 12:35 pm:

Hello ,and thankyou for your very useful thoughts and suggestions.I had to be away for a few days and so was slow to respond.I have tried the leapfrog game successfully with my usual trail partner but learned ,when out with another young horse, that I have to be very particular about making sure that he spends his time behind and ahead in short increments.I am now going to try Christos suggestions as well and hope that we carry on with good results.I really didn't want the misbehaviour behind to become a habit because as I am sure that you are all aware it would take so much longer to fix than starting right at the beginning.
Thanks again, and Happy Trails
Pauline
Member:
Heidim

Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 8:29 am:

I'm resurrecting this discussion, as it applies to an 18-year-old ranch gelding that I am considering buying. He's very well broke and has tons of trail experience. He is also a former 4-H barrel racing champion and, by nature or by training or both, very competitive. I'd like to buy him to be a trail horse first and a gaming horse second, the latter a year or two down the road when my daughter is more comfortable with speed. My concern is that his present owner says he will want to be in front on every trail ride. That's not going to be possible, given where and with whom I ride. This discussion offers all kinds of great techniques for making a horse more comfortable following as well as leading. However, do they apply to green or younger horses only, or do you think they will work just as well on an older horse trained for speed and winning ribbons? I understand that every horse has its issues and I don't want to pass up a good one; on the other hand, I don't want to set myself or the horse up for failure and endless frustration. I'd appreciate hearing from those who originally suggested the techniques and also those who have experienced success (or disappointment) in retraining such a horse for another purpose. Thanks, as always, for your thoughts and ideas.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 10:01 am:

I don't think you are setting him up to fail. SOunds like a great horse. This is just one small thing that can be controlled. Did the owners ever say they have tried training him to follow on trail? Does he get really rank, and the ride is not enjoyable if he's not in front? Some horses are just really competitive, and some just don't trust. Mine has a trust issue. Why on some trail rides its smooth and easy and some are just a big fight to the front....

I wouldn't base a purchase on this fact alone, and unless this horse is dangerous because of it. I have always seen this mitigated on the trail with many horses, just owners need to work with their quirks. And work it in a controlled environment BEFORE getting on the trail. And BEFORE you are in a no win situation. and finding out he dumps you and leaves you for home. I hate seeing rank horses on trail. And owners saying she is so good in the arena...or saying MY HORSE has to be upfront.... No he doesn't its just that you can't control him. He has no faith that you are the leader. and he has no faith in the lead horse. My alpha QH was like this. over time and trust she will go where i put her. She likes to be the savior. And lead everyone home. So some days i let her. Some days i can't... Over time she learned this.

Now a truly competitive horse i think you would deal with them differently and the games above sound like a good plan. Why did you say the horse could never be the leader?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 10:41 am:

This is a hard question, and the answer has to do with what you want to do with the horse as soon as you get him home . . . and what are you willingt to give in time to teach him to follow?

I had a racer when I was a teen . . . rode barrels and poles . . . as a result of her thinking that FAST was her expected speed, and as a result of my ignorance, that horse would change from a easy walk into a popcorn machine whenever I rode her into a riding arena. She was extremely competitive on trail . . . easily controlled as to direction, but just couldn't relax on trail, and was always jigging, trotting or galloping . . . I don't remember that she had a canter.
Knowing what I do now, I believe I could have easily retrained her as she was a very sweet mare and very willing, but she had been taught to run, and that's what she thought she was supposed to do whenever someone's seat hit her back (and when I was a kid, that's what most of my friends and I thought we were supposed to do on horses . . . my pablum was the cowboy shows of the 50s and 60s).
Having taught lessons for many years in the ring and on trail, I feel that the best place for me to be is beHIND the lead horse, so I can keep an eye on what is happening and can give instruction, and if this gelding will WALK when he is in front and if he is sensitive and obedient to direction cues, then you should be okay depending on your daughter's level of balance and control. If she doesn't know how to circle a horse with her shoulders up and her eyes ahead on the circle, you might want to work on that first . . . then, whenever she feels that her horse is moving faster than she has asked, she can put him on a controlled circle and keep him at a walk and not run off.
Depending on your daughter's level of experience, she can be the one to teach the gelding to follow . . . by doing the controlled circles behind you as you lead (they both may be extremely tired and dizzy by the end of the ride unless it is a very short one, and I would recommend LOTS of very short loops for starting out.) Joj is right that it takes lots of time, and if this is a good horse, it may be very well worth it. It depends on what you want the horse to be able to do when you take him off the trailer . . . If you don't mind taking the time and patience, getting the gelding could be an excellent learning experience for your daughter, and you may well end up with a horse worth more than what you paid for him.
Member:
Heidim

Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 10:10 am:

Just wanted to let you know that I bought the gelding. He is very competitive and has lots of spunk, but he is possibly the most well mannered horse I've ever ridden. He's patient about bridling and saddling and neck reins like a dream. My plan is to ride him the first year before my daughter does, so I can get to know him before she takes over. She did ride him at the owner's as well and had no problem. Thanks for giving me the courage to consider him; I think we found a good one.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 10:33 am:

Soooooo happy for both you and the new gelding, Heidi. Congratulations. Will love to see some photos of you and him and of him with your daughter, sometime.
Member:
Heidim

Posted on Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 - 8:57 am:

Thanks, Holly. I will upload some photos after we get him home. My daughter is very excited, so I don't think it will take much to get her to pose.
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