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Discussion on Teaching Leads
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 11:49 am:
I am beginning to work at canter with my 3 year old. First, I need advice for myself on knowing how to tell which lead my horse is picking up while riding. It seems to take me three or four strides to "feel" which lead he is on, but I want to know it right when he takes off so I can correct him sooner.
Secondly, I've also been working with him in a round pen to teach him leads from the ground. Right now, he seems to understand to lead with the inside leg, but I'm having difficulty getting him to pick up the correct one while in the saddle, even when we start on a curve. I thought he would naturally start to lead with his inside leg, but he seems to favor leading with his left leg. Should I teach him verbal cues on the ground then use them in saddle? How would I do that, such as what cues and when should I use them? How do I transition the verbal cue into a physical one?
Thanks for you help.
Linda
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Member:
Lorrieg
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 1:24 pm:
Linda,
Something that I have found very helpful in assiting the youngsters to pick up the correct lead in the round pen is to reach back with your outside hand and place it on their rump then ask for the canter. This will put your weight in the proper position for them to be able to pick up the inside lead, with persistance it even works with those that favor a particular lead.
As far as identifying the correct lead, get used to watching the shoulder and seeing which one is extending further without leaning forward which will throw the horse off balance and possibly into the wrong lead.
If at all possible try to ride a more experienced horse that is adept at picking up the correct lead so that you can get used to the feel and identifying the shoulder movement, or even have someone help you from the ground by telling you which lead the horse is on while you tune in to the feel.
Hope this helps!
Lorrie
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 2:53 pm:
Linda ...
My experience is that most people are so focused on the front leg that is the lead leg that they miss the most important factor. Also, as Lorrie stated, you may be over reaching to see the front that you actually cause the horse to switch leads for balance. For a horse to be on the proper lead .. for example left lead, they are actually starting with the opposite rear and propelling forward, then extending with the left front. I use my leg cue on the left side toward the back, to move the rear to the right at the same time I use my right leg pressure near the center to ask for propulsion. Moving the rear over to start the gait will force the proper lead on the front. It is important to first teach your horse to yeild to the leg pressure near the back to move the rear over slightly. You should be able to do this at a stand, walk, trot, or lope. I honestly think that if you pay more attention to the rear as the "start" point, it will become easier for you to recognize and accomplish. I can feel ther rear move into position as well or better than I can see the front leg extension.
Just my opinion here and hope it has some merit for you.
DT
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 5:46 am:
Linda,
You can tell which lead he is on from feeling which shoulder and hip is a bit more forward compared its opposite.
On the left lead, the horse's left shoulder and hip are a bit more forward than the right ones, which causes your left seatbone and leg to ride a bit more forward than your right one.
If you sit balanced and quiet on a horse cantering on the left lead, you'll feel your left seatbone, leg and shoulder "leading", whilst your right seatbone, leg and shoulder will feel a little bit "left behind".
You'll see this very clearly if you can watch a horse and rider performing one-time flying changes, ie changes of lead in every step.
Your horse will naturally prefer the left lead, I think 95% of young horses will do so, as they are most often crooked, naturally bent, to the left.
I believe that you have to learn how to feel and correct this crookedness, first in trot, then in canter. Only then, when the horse is balanced, straight, understanding and accepting bending and positioning its body according to your aids, it is time to ask for correct transitions.
All the best,
Christos
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 11:17 am:
Linda,
What we keep forgetting to mention when talking training a horse or rider is the time it takes.
Unfortunately enough, one does not get a clear idea for this from the books and texts available.
See my post above, I'm telling you to feel the horse's body. I forgot mentioning that it takes several months of practice, at best, to be able to do that.
I'm also suggesting that you finish the basic straightening/suppling training before you advance. Forgot to mention that this takes several months to bring to a decent level.
To cut a long story short, it takes some 5 years, I think as an absolute minimum, to train a horse succesfully for any given discipline. Most of this time, the first half at least, is consumed on these very basics. When you have that nice and solid base, all the rest comes rather naturally, as a logic consequence.
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 1:05 pm:
Thank you all for such good advice. It sounds like I'm trying to move forward too quickly and I should slow down. My desire to get correct leads stems from our work in the arena, as I was told my horse should not canter on the outside lead on a curve. My own skills are not to the level that we can attempt this without causing injury to him. The problem is how can we canter and keep him exercised in both directions, without teaching him to lead on the proper, inside leg? Perhaps the answer is not to try cantering in the arena until we are ready for it, and that may be some time yet. Maybe I'm just too eager to get the speed up. I do think my posture is too far forward, and not "looking" at his shoulder is important for me, so I will try Dennis and Lorrie's suggestions to see if that helps. Christos, I am surprised to see how long it takes to achieve higher levels of training and will give that considerable thought. Sometimes I feel like Cutter and I are progressing soooooo slowly, but in that context, we are progressing at just the right pace. So much to learn!
Linda
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 5:03 pm:
Well, Linda, I believe there's no such thing as slow progress with horses!
If your horse progresses so fast that you actually see progress, it is fast enough. I wouldn't push it any further.
All this does not mean you should not allow or even ask your horse to canter. Just be very careful and patient. This is an early development stage for both of you.
Counter canter is an often misunderstood subject.
It is a very difficult exercise for well trained, straight moving horses. It is not so difficult and not at all detrimental to your youngster, because he's simply not straight. Even when he canters on a right turn, he'll be probably bent to the left and, as a consequence, lead with the left leg. That's ok, it's easy for him as long as the circle is 20m diameter or more.
As he'll progress and he'll be properly bent in the circle, his old favourite left counter lead will become so difficult that he'll never offer it himself. You'll actually have to train him to do it again, this time as a proper exercise.
About time, now, 5 years is average time for just successfully trained horses. Higher levels, Grand Prix for instance, averages around 8 years of training. High School movements, around 10 years total work. Once again, these are averages for very talented horses, trainers and riders. Just check the ages of successful dressage competitors. You'll hardly find a horse younger than 10 and a rider younger than 30 in the higher levels. Why do you think this is so?
It is a life sentence, Linda....
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 5:18 pm:
Christos;
Thanks for stressing that good training doesn't happen over night. I too was feeling I was too slow, not in perfecting ring exercises as my horses are distance horses we do just about all our work on the trail. However, even a horses mind takes a long time to develop. I have a very immature 9 year old, who I've always made excuses for. He has not, up to this point, been mentally ready to go down a trail with confidence alone. This was the first year I felt him really become confident, but although other horses were doing so much younger, I did not rush him. I would rather have him confindent at his speed than ruined by pushing him beyond his capabilities. Thanks for making me feel better.
Lisa
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2004 - 8:37 pm:
Hi, I just wanted to add one more thing to the excellent advice already given. Sometimes when asking for a lead on a young horse people hold the leading rein too tight which makes it impossible for the horse to take the proper lead. Too see if this is a problem exatuarate giving a super loose leading rein as they try to break into a canter. Ex. going to the right in a circle tip the head in the right direction, inside leg at girth outside leg behind squeeze then DrOp the right rein, sometimes if people try too hard they unconsiensly hold the rein too tight so the horse CANNOT take the correct lead. This is probably not the case but another thing to try and or think about.Katrina
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 16, 2004 - 10:39 am:
Christos, that is very interesting. The people who told me to be careful in arenas are riding well trained, straight horses. This knowledge gives me a great deal of relief. I've noticed that my horse is indeed bent on corners and I'm thinking it's his way of compensating and balancing himself, since he isn't in the physical condition to do otherwise. Katrina, I have been trying to focus a great deal on my hands and reins and I'm not sure what you mention is what is happening, but I will try to think about it next time. I have many new ideas to try and I thank everyone for their input.
Linda
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